Author Topic: How do you build an elementalist?  (Read 642 times)

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Offline botebote77

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How do you build an elementalist?
« on: 16 November 2018, 05:47:37 »
Yeah just as title says.. and if possible, stats, skills, and playstyle included.. mages are my thing but i been theorycrafting for an elementalist ever since TQAE so that's about 2 years now.. and i still can't think of a good build for an elementalist. Just theorycrafting because me not playing now. I'm just curious.

In this game i don't believe one class is better than others.. some are just easier to build but i believe each class has its own advantages over others

This class i just think it's all offense and no defense.. that's not for me.. And what's worse is it excels in 3 elements but you don't really need 3 elements.. 4 damage types if you include physical but you don't really need 4 damage types.. Well, some of theorycraft builds i came up with

1) int build - squall + VO, eruption.. maybe lightning bolt later.. but meh this is all offense and no defense

2) int build - squall + flame surge.. ice shard is better than flame surge.. but for an elementalist, i think flame surge is better

3) int build - 3 elements.. lightning bolt + ice shard + eruption.. but this is also all offense and no defense

4) hybrid stat style caster - elemental + physical.. then loading up on %total damage.. maybe freezing blast.. squall + freezing blast + VO/eruption sounds good.. this would be hard to build and gear but i think I'm favoring this one.. but i still think it's an inferior version of physical + fire summoner.. and that bugs me

5) int build - thunderball + VO + eruption.. would this give enough survivavility though?

edit: forgot to include this but i also thought of this at one point
6) hybrid stat style caster - reflect build.. stone form + energy shield - reflection.. str to wear the shield that gives good reflect damage, what's that again? throw in eruption for good measure.. yeah i favor this over (4).. sigh an elementalist reflect build.. would the core get too much attention though?

7) hybrid melee elementalist - oh right the old melee elementalist.. I'm skeptical of this though.. i mean this can't be better than a conqueror.. maybe throwing weapon + shield? chakram of the sun?

This was easy in TQIT.. just gear up for CDR and you're good.. But i think this got more difficult to build in TQAE.. some DA is a must i think.. Core dweller also is a must.. What do you guys think?

I been googling and youtubeing but i haven't seen a build that shows the strength of elementalist over others.

very late update: i ended up turning my stormcaller in the xmax HC challenge into an elementalist
« Last Edit: 31 December 2018, 11:28:46 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Tauceti

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #1 on: 16 November 2018, 21:22:55 »
Depends on your own criteria of gameplay style.

Although i understand people like glass-canon builds for a dynamical playstyle, i cannot go with these builds. Too many deaths, and i got the feeling that there is something wrong in my build. I don't think i have ever played an elementalist before. Surely because of a high risk of death  ;D

If I have to, i would go with your 5th proposition, because of the thunderball skill for its stun ability. I would add the core dweller for a better protection though. About the dps skill, VO is nice , or LB or iceshards too. But not Flamesurge, it's funny on normal but its close range, although spammable,  is not the way to go for survivability in legendary.

Regarding an hybrid style caster, you maybe think of the Hephasteus set ? it should be handy. About a reflect build, hmm i don't think it's good with an elementalist. I am currently trying to gather reflection gear with my defender, and what happens is that you need tons of %XX reflected damage, or else you will die of...boredom with trash mobs. On the other hand it could work with bosses since they have high spike damage.

Offline botebote77

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #2 on: 16 November 2018, 22:30:16 »
thnx for the answer.. yeah that's why i haven't played an elementalist in AE yet.. i played one in TQIT but it was broken back then.. iirc i had over 90% CDR.. i could finish the whole game with just LB alone.. i play glass cannons but i make sure i have enough survivability.. and yes core dweller is a must

regarding hybrid stat style caster, i wasn't thinking about that.. i wasn't thinking of any items either.. this is a quote from my mage prophet thread

Quote
3)  Hybrid stat style caster. Actually, there are some veterans that play casters investing on all 3 stats, even though they know they will only deal elemental damage. Self-proclaimed mage boy has learned many things from at least one of those crazy guys. Sadly, they are not around anymore so the things you'll get from me is mostly theoretical and i can't give any assurances:
At 400+ int, you can already wear most high end mage items except staves. If you invest another 400, you get about +61% ele damage. But if you put all those on str instead, you can get your str to about 500 - 600. At 500 - 600 str, you can equip items like Lykaion Malleus and Visor of the Shadowlord, plus high end shields. See the lightning and EBD damage? With the right items, it's possible to get back the damage you lost, and also gain way more survivability. The main goal though of course is to have enough survivability. I've said this before somewhere: "less running equals more attacks, more running equals less attacks". You might need 1 socrate's ring and 1 hale ring (maybe). But it'll probably be worth it. Or maybe the 10% str from jade emperor artifact will suffice. Don't know but eh experienced hybrid players will know what to do once they play it. If you want to try this for the first time, do at your own risk.
if i am to re-run this right now, 90% chance i would've taken this route.

now i remember this one conversation i had with an old TQ vet.. when i still didn't know this style and he mentioned it.. i couldn't even disagree because he was saying it like it was perfectly normal.. like "what, did i say something weird?".. and he knows the game like the back of his hand.. me learned now.. the way to dish more damage is to be able to stand up against mobs.. and it works well for me.

if my curiosity kills me, i just might make 1 and play again
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline icefreeze

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #3 on: 17 November 2018, 04:49:02 »
In Ragnarok DLC, there is M.I armor set that grant 15% chance of 200%/350%/500% dmg/piece reflected( But there is a bug that make this set can't drop in Legendary, so now we just can get this set at Epic quality, but its still good for Reflect dmg)
https://tq-db.net/search/icescale

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #4 on: 18 November 2018, 10:46:12 »
Elementalist, bah

It would seem to be the ultimate int caster mastery but looking closer it has very little synergy. All things in two masteries are either phys/fire or cold/lightning related. Wisps eye of the storm boosts all elemental, squall reduces all res, core dweller. There is also very little defense besides core dweller and squall phys damage reduction. Both masteries are good at damage which unfortunately do not synergize, but bad at support, and so is elementalist.

So to the question of how to build it I'm not sure there is a single way that is much better than the others. Nothing to abuse here, its just something like ice shards with core dweller, or lightning with eruption with core dweller, or whatever other combination of skills suits you.
« Last Edit: 18 November 2018, 13:58:43 by mammoth_hunter »

Offline botebote77

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #5 on: 18 November 2018, 11:18:29 »
thnx for the answer.. yeah it's just like i said.. all offense and no defense.. and excelling in 4 damage types but you don't really need 4 damage types.. nothing on earth boosts cold or lightning.. fire is the only synergy.. and an experienced ice sharder would know all int is not the correct way to go.. it's ok for a druid or thunderer with 80% CDR but for any other builds, all int is not the correct way to go

edit: still...
« Last Edit: 18 November 2018, 11:21:48 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Tauceti

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #6 on: 18 November 2018, 12:22:46 »
I wonder  if a high-armor int mage could be built without spending attributes points on strength. For example, this torso piece of gear is unconventional, maybe other very specific gear can be gathered. I am sure have seen a high armor item based on dexterity (which would not be wasted points for a mage), but can't put the hand on it.
« Last Edit: 18 November 2018, 12:26:23 by Tauceti »

Offline botebote77

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #7 on: 18 November 2018, 13:13:46 »
dem that's a very good armor.. but what is that? weightless of? that's very good for a lightning + cold paladin

and for you to find that on a legendary MI? dem luck
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #8 on: 18 November 2018, 13:57:32 »
Its weightless of immortality, and is one of the caster items from act V with wrong armor values like that one too

Spoiler for Hiden:


Spoiler for Hiden:

Offline Tauceti

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #9 on: 18 November 2018, 13:58:39 »
The master robe comes natively with %elemental dmg and resistances, so it's a weightless MS robe of immortality. It drops from the dvergr overlords, one of the best zone for MIs. The dark lands way-point is not far. Actually i made some farming sessions to get a dvergr-forged sword with good perks (that i am using now in my defender) but other nice MIs drop also: the dvergr-forged fire battle axe (with a magma strike proc) which could be nice for a melee stonespeaker, the prospector rod (what a ..), and the master robe. All these items good for mages except the sword.

Edit: I didn't know about the boots. Hey Bote, 2 more items to find and you will have your melee int-mage of your dream !
« Last Edit: 18 November 2018, 14:04:11 by Tauceti »

Offline botebote77

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #10 on: 19 November 2018, 04:20:01 »
not my video but this was what an elementalist looked like in TQIT



don't even know why he was using VO instead of eruption but it's easy to see how OP it can be.. mine used to be LB + eruption.. not 100% CDR but enough to spam LB.. has the mighty fallen?
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #11 on: 19 November 2018, 04:30:21 »
this one will be too dangerous in xmax right?



sad i can't understand the language.. looks like thunder ball + flame surge int build
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline icefreeze

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #12 on: 19 November 2018, 05:44:44 »
this one will be too dangerous in xmax right?



sad i can't understand the language.. looks like thunder ball + flame surge int build

That build on single though.
And with single game, nothing much to care about.

Offline tholuneve

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #13 on: 19 November 2018, 07:48:04 »
dem that's a very good armor.. but what is that? weightless of? that's very good for a lightning + cold paladin

and for you to find that on a legendary MI? dem luck

BTW it is legit to find Veteran's Master Seer Robe of the Gods (confirmed drop). Happy farming  O0
And maybe Veteran's Boots of the Valkyrie of the Pegasus (not confirmed).



3)  Hybrid stat style caster. Actually, there are some veterans that play casters investing on all 3 stats, even though they know they will only deal elemental damage. Self-proclaimed mage boy has learned many things from at least one of those crazy guys. Sadly, they are not around anymore so the things you'll get from me is mostly theoretical and i can't give any assurances:
At 400+ int, you can already wear most high end mage items except staves. If you invest another 400, you get about +61% ele damage. But if you put all those on str instead, you can get your str to about 500 - 600. At 500 - 600 str, you can equip items like Lykaion Malleus and Visor of the Shadowlord, plus high end shields. See the lightning and EBD damage? With the right items, it's possible to get back the damage you lost, and also gain way more survivability. The main goal though of course is to have enough survivability. I've said this before somewhere: "less running equals more attacks, more running equals less attacks". You might need 1 socrate's ring and 1 hale ring (maybe). But it'll probably be worth it. Or maybe the 10% str from jade emperor artifact will suffice. Don't know but eh experienced hybrid players will know what to do once they play it. If you want to try this for the first time, do at your own risk.
if i am to re-run this right now, 90% chance i would've taken this route.


I'm not sure which version it is refering to, but I disagree with this especially in TQIT.

First, int bonus to ele damage and ele% are MULTIPLICTIVE, NOT ADDITIVE. Given the example, 400 int deals approximately 72% damage of 800 int. We do know in TQIT it's not hard to have 1000+ or 2000+ int with all the int% gears, so the difference would be even larger.
Second, even if you do wish to wear str gear and shield and get all the benefits, it is not the best choice to invest enough str to wear them, instead find some gear with reduced stats req, then invest calculated minimum str. Odysseus' Armor, for example, is one of the most used armor for hybrid builds. This is also true if you want to wear int gear as str/dex build, for example 0CD Dreamkiller could use Archmage's Clasp and Tracker's Hood and also other str gears at the same time while maintain very high damage. I would say before do any hybrid build, calculate your stats (several side quests also give your some permenant stats) and your current gears, find the best str/int/dex req combo, then invest points carefully. Each point matters, at least for me.
Third, "less running equals more attacks, more running equals less attacks". This is very true. However, the reverse statement is also true. Pick gears that increase your damage will reduce your survivability, but it will also reduce your survivability requirement, which is easily neglected. You only need to survive 4 seconds if you can kill enemies within 3 seconds, but you need to survive 7 seconds if you need 6 seconds to kill enemies. Damage and survivability are not mutually exclusive, it's not a zero-sum game. I do not encourage full damage gearing though, it's about finding a balance in gear. From my experience I don't think use str gear for pure casters worth the opportunity cost.
More importantly, as a caster (or any ranged build with cc abilities), more damage may result in significantly reduced damage taken since some enemies won't be able to attack you in the first place, which means the effect of damage is not linear, it has a "threshhold" for a certain monsters or area. I call this "safe time", during which you can fire at will and do not need to concern about your own safety. It is not hard to find that even in Legendary Act 4 in IT. In AE or Ragnarok monster speed has been increased notebaly, and "Very Fast Game Mode" is added to reduce player's reaction time, "safe time" has been drastically reduced, but still exists. Yet also in Ragnorok, several new int purples as well as amulets, grant huge amount of resistances. To conclude, if you choose to invest str or maybe dex to get more tankiness from str gear/shield and sacrifice some damage output, does not garentee to result in actual higher survivability.



Regarding your topic. Back in TQIT, I would choose squall + ice shard + eruption. Ice shard already provided enough constant damage output, add eruption for burst damage, and Core Dweller as tank expecially for boss fight. It's not really glass cannon as long as you manually control your Core Dweller in several dangerous areas. Other skill combo also works in IT, I don't think there are major differences among them. You mentioned all offense and no defense, well squall and CD are both good defense.
Now in Ragnarok I doubt the above playstyle is still good enough although I haven't tried it yet. Core Dweller is not as reliable due to monster aggro change, its tankiness also challenged by bleeding, cold & lighting, and physical damage in Act 5. It's immune damage type, poison and vitality, which is very useful in Act 4, is not that important in Act 5 (immune to fire damage still works well). Ice shard damage output is still good in Epic, but not satisfying in legendary A3 and forward. Ragnarok gear does not increase damage output for pure casters (non-Ternion, non-petmancer, non-dagger thrower) which is sad, and you have to wear more defense gear as you did in IT. In general, you have less damage and less survivability. I guess I would prefer fire+lightning and ignore ice shard in Ragnarok.
« Last Edit: 19 November 2018, 08:02:52 by tholuneve »

Offline botebote77

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Re: How do you build an elementalist?
« Reply #14 on: 19 November 2018, 08:17:41 »
the words about hybrid melee caster about getting back the damage even with strength only came from me.. no doubt those hybrid casters that I've seen were from TQIT.. i have not been daring enough yet to try an ele damage only hybrid.. i have 3 hybrid casters but they were safe builds because i also deal big physical damage.. 2 i can assure are very good.. mage haruspex and summoner.. my mage haruspex have 500+ str and int and about 270 dex.. enough to equip neiths will and get 1k+ DA.. summoner is not really a hybrid because i ignored dex.. survivability came from briar ward + refresh + 80% CDR.. the 3rd is a true balanced stat hybrid though it's still on epic.. it's very good atm and doesn't seem like it will suddenly go weak in legendary because it's also a safe build because it's not really a caster caster.. it's a glorified trapper that looks like a caster.. I'm writing a thread actually about it.. I've started writing last week, hopefully tomorrow i can finish.. it's not a guide

late edit:
https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=791.new#new
first build

this one will be too dangerous in xmax right?



sad i can't understand the language.. looks like thunder ball + flame surge int build

That build on single though.
And with single game, nothing much to care about.
yeah.. my experience is staff mages that face tank in legendary xmax dies even with high resists and 1k DA.. i don't play ternion builds though

edit: just realized i have 4 hybrids including skinchanger though it's not a caster.. 3 if summoner is not included because it's not really a hybrid.. god i must really like hybrids :))
« Last Edit: 20 November 2018, 23:21:45 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

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