Author Topic: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker  (Read 649 times)

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Offline wolpak

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Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« on: 05 October 2018, 16:26:22 »
Rune is probably my favorite mastery right now, mostly because it seems that it was intentionally meant to have a shout out to all other classes synergywise.  I am looking for a solid throwing weapons build and I was comparing Dragon Hunter to Sedir Worker.  Clex has a solid DH build, but I was wondering if it was inferior to SW and what other thought.

Most of the Rune abilities are the same (except for one)

Benefits of Hunting:
Wood Lore- +AS and + DA
Herbal Remedy- +PR and +Health Regen
Find Cover- +Avoid Projectiles
Trail Blazing- +Move Speed +Entrap Duration
Volley - Proc adds 3 attacks
Flush Out - -Elemental Resists

Benefits of Dream:
Lucid Dream- + Electrical Burn + Vitality Damage
Premonition- +DA (half of wood lore)
Temporal Flux- + Total Speed (half of Wood Lore, but total) +Avoid Projectiles (half) + Slow Resist
Trance of Wrath- +Reduced Resists +Electric Burn
Distortion Field: +Damage Absorption
Nightmare Hypnotic Gaze: Reduced Resist and Confusion
Temporal Rift- Electric Burn and Stun/Petrify

So, when comparing the two, some of the stat buffs that hunting have are done in Dream at a lesser extent.  However, Hunting doesn't synergize at all with elemental buffs while Dream has all sorts of Electric Burn and the big one, Trance of Wrath, which should really benefit everything in the Rune Weapon Tree.  The major ability, Flush out can be replaced with Aftershock, which is hard to use with study prey, but can be used instead.

Wha y'all thank?

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Offline WNG

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #1 on: 06 October 2018, 18:34:05 »
I'm unsure wich one has the most potential, but I don't know how effective is the DoT from Trance of Wrath. It sure breaks the Normal difficulty, but it does get less and less powerful as the game goes. This is why I would probably go for Hunting wich offers more reliable sources of damage in late game.

Dream sure has very crowd control skills wich are very good and great passive bonuses, but if you plan to go for Dream, even if Rune majorly favors elemental attacks, you shouldn't solely focus on DoT and have a more direct source of damage.

Makes me wonder... does +% elemental damage/+% intelligence even boost elemental DoTs?

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Offline wolpak

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #2 on: 06 October 2018, 20:11:37 »
I get that the DoT is more of whipped cream on a sundae, but I think the real bonus is the constant -40% to resistances that it provides.  Now that my attacks are 99% elemental, they should hit harder.  Even as an aside, the bonus to int should increase the value of the the DoT as I believe they are affected by intelligence as well.

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #3 on: 06 October 2018, 20:58:51 »
Then, I guess you will have fun with Dream. I can picture Distort Reality and Seal of Fate to be quite deadly along with a boosted DoT. Be sure to grab the most recharge reduction and it should be good.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #4 on: 06 October 2018, 21:16:24 »
the problem with trance of wrath is the radius is too small and it does not go well with menhir wall.. and dual wield throwing is really squishy.. and the reduced resist is by percent meaning if you reduce a monster's resist by 40%, and it's resistance is 80%, it will just be 80-(80*.40)=48.. and if the resist is 20%: 20-(20*.40)=12.. so not that big.. but study prey + flush out is absolute and not by %, so that 20% resist will go into the negatives.. plus it is not a small radius aura.. you can cast it even at range.. so study prey really beats ToW at least in legendary

but there are many dragon hunters already but not many seidr workers.. we know now how to build a good dual wield dragon hunter but seidr worker, it's just mostly theorycrafts.. so while dragon hunter is a much safer build imo, i actually want you to play seidr worker  ;)
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Offline wolpak

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #5 on: 07 October 2018, 14:06:50 »
But does it beat seal of fate?  Now, if the resistances are in the negative, with a percentage drop actually increase them?  I wish there was a way to know.

I guess Iím saying that I donít really see what tools that a dragon hunter has that a sensor worker doesnít, and I want to know what I am missing.  If seal of fate can replace flush out, then he really just has volley, while sedit worker has elemental synergy with electric burn.  I am no expert, which is why Iím asking.

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Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #6 on: 07 October 2018, 14:38:05 »
But does it beat seal of fate?
These are two different skills you will use in different situations. Seal of fate is a very slow nuke that you will sometimes use on bosses and sometimes to raze archers (who refuse to move). It won't hit anything unless its blocked by menhir wall and aggroed at it. Flush out is one click AOE debuff you will commonly use to debuff or aggro anything. Very easy and very convenient. Trance of wrath on its own is melee range debuff, don't count on it in ranged build, even throwing ranged. When it ticks on mobs once, these mobs are already sitting on your head bashing it.

I believe you have seen my dragon hunter build on this board. There were some people who voiced their intention to make seidr or said they are already in process but no one has published any guide or report AFAIK. Electric burn won't give you much synergy. Its damage is improved by intelligence, %elemental and %electric burn damage on gear. %elemental is particularly hard to find in big numbers. So it very much depends on gear.

For the actual resist reduction order there is this writeup. In current Grim Dawn mechanic seem to differ though, but for Titan Quest first link info should still be valid. Trance of wrath is efficient when you already have lots of flat resist reduction, to put it even further into negative. When its the only thing you have, its very modest.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #7 on: 07 October 2018, 21:23:15 »
hunting is the safer choice.. dream and rune has synergy in EBD but that's it.. hunting gives higher DA, higher attack speed, higher movement speed, better RR, huge poison res, volley, an additional aggro skill if you need it

now if you play it melee + shield, distort reality + ToW + seal of fate + phantom strike, hmm don't know.. seidr worker is mostly unknown for now
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Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #8 on: 07 October 2018, 21:51:30 »
The only other mastery that has similar simple debuff to flush out is nature, which is also one of the best support masteries for nearly anything, you can't go wrong with getting more hp and resist for you while reducing resist, total speed and damage on mobs. Mobs in legendary have 60% all resistance (except physical) by default. Ultimate rank flush out is -50 something (-55?), so its almost 2,5x damage improvement on its own. Plague is slightly higher I think. That can be dropped into negatives with seal of fate. When its deep into negative, % reduction like TOW or squall or Hera's shield can drop it further.

You don't have to use skills to debuff in an attack build, it can try to debuff with attacks with items like Winds of Asphodele, Korybantes, Hera's shield. Twisted coil of the parasite.


And you don't have to use skill debuffs to get something very meta, you can also buff damage instead with elemental masteries. Earth or storm, and their 100%+ damage auras for fire or cold and lightning. Also 180% elemental from wisp if storm, and flat cold and lightning. Elemental masteries are glass though, they do not have DA, evasion or other defensive support.

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Offline wolpak

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #9 on: 07 October 2018, 22:43:11 »
Which is a concern for a melee Sedir Worker as he cane wear strength based armor.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #10 on: 08 October 2018, 00:31:13 »
armor isn't all that.. it's the most basic form of defense.. meaning there are better ways to get survivability.. lots

edit: high DA is better than armor.. shield with high damage block and chance to block is better than armor.. I'd even take high resists over armor.. i like CCs and dream has one of the best close range CCs in the game (distort)

others: high damage absorption is better than armor.. permanent briar ward is better than armor.. even having lots of pets is better than armor
« Last Edit: 08 October 2018, 00:42:08 by botebote77 »
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Re: Dragon Hunter vs Sedir Worker
« Reply #11 on: 08 October 2018, 00:59:47 »
Generally, high resistances and a high health pool (at least 5k) is enough to have decent survivability. And that is possible with every class.

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