Author Topic: The optimal Ritualist build?  (Read 116 times)

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Offline nargil66

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The optimal Ritualist build?
« on: 14 July 2018, 01:58:53 »
I wanna make an "immortal" Ritualist, kinda. Have a very good impression of the class from playing Legion of Champions - my first and only LoC character to reach Legendary with 0 deaths was Ritualist. But LoC is a pet focused mod, I don't know how well the class performs in vanilla... Also I was never sure about stats (especially Dex). Some questions I have about the class in vanilla:
1. Should I go for Str or Int, or pure petmancer?
2. What gear to look for?
3. Is spear a good choice for melee?
4. Any possibility for pure Str caster, using buff from SotP and the physical skills from Dream?
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Offline botebote77

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #1 on: 14 July 2018, 05:34:20 »
i am not here to provide answers.. i am here for more questions :D
the (4) though i can answer

what is pure petmancer stat distribution? some people make it pure int to equip a pet buff staff.. but i think that would be a mistake because you will end up with much higher int than you need.. i have seen str+dex+int petmasters with dex being the highest endgame to get as much DA as possible.. that one i can agree with.. but my skinchanger, the closest i have to a pure petmaster, is str+dex+int until end of epic and then start of legendary onwards, i pumped only health.. but that is because i did not rely on DA for survivability but briar ward + damage absorption combo.. something only possible for a skinchanger.. for what it's worth, i think stat distribution for a petmaster should be str+dex+int because since you will not deal damage anyway, you are better off equipping the best items you can find whatever the requirement is.. but do not start hybrid stat right away, start with 1 or 2 stats except pure dex

random thoughts: i think the best character for a HC run would be something you enjoy playing so you can focus on that character only.. i play many characters and when i focus on one character, then switch to another, there is always a time for adjustment so i can get used to it again.. that time for adjustment can sometimes lead to a death.. there is also the case for my mage Haruspex.. it went really smooth i could've played it no deaths.. until i got bored playing it because it's too repetitive.. when i got to 3 Fafnirs, i found it enjoyable again i couldn't resist the urge to play them like 10x.. boom 2 deaths :)) .. i don't regret it though

i do believe that there are different ways to building a class and i do like that you are considering different builds for a ritualist.. i do not believe that there is a hierarchy to class builds, something i think many people will not agree with.. i think some are just harder to build but not necessarily better than others.. what i mean to say is i think a ritualist is just as good as any class for a HC run so long as you can find a build and playstyle that suits you along with a good gear set-up

now for 4th question, i think that would be difficult.. distort reality has 12 seconds cooldown and at 80% CDR, you can only get it to as low as 2.4secs and the damage would still be not enough at least for a str build.. distortion wave would be better for that because the first 2 skills scales with str and the reduced armor really helps.. the problem is the energy cost is HUGE for a non-int build.. you can wear golden fleece and seal of the high priest but would that be worth it for a physical damage build? i don't think so.. i think the best build to utilize distortion wave is str+int and i think the devs made it that way as evidenced by the fact that the first 2 skills scales with str but the 3rd scales with int.. this one i can say from experience.. my Haruspex has no other attack but distortion wave and my first dreamkiller, part of that theorycraft is reducing armor with distortion wave then letting traps deal physical damage.. my bracers were also twisted coil of the parasite to reduce resists via throwing knives

finally, i think character building should be free and not be bound by any rules so please feel free to build a str build dream caster and prove me wrong :)) i promise i would not be mad.. in fact, if you succeed, i would be happy because there is another ridiculous build.. pls share it with us if you decide to do so

edit: hey right maybe it's possible with tranquility of water and sanctuary, then plague of course.. i say go for it  >:D
« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 05:37:13 by botebote77 »
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Spoiler for Hiden:

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #2 on: 14 July 2018, 11:59:16 »
I have no idea how caster ritualist performs and will not speculate now.

I've been complaining here that full summoner ritualist still suffers a slowdown at the very end of legendary when using not ideal gear. It is the result of monster hp and damage scaling, though, how much damage do you think these pathetic wolves do?

Spoiler for Hiden:

- 5-9K per hit, like an average hero. Damage is acually not the problem, though adding more of it helps. It is how they distribute it, AI that makes them run in different directions. Their hp is also still too low for that part of the game. When they do so, they are almost instantly debuffed and at low health, so I have to call them back, heal out of their near death experience and point at mob manually or else they run in same directions again, several times per fight. That is not comfortable.


A summoner would only use stats for gear stat requirements but still needs lots of them. I did a summoner champion with almost 1 : 1: 1 str : int : dex ratio, stonebinders, armor of Odysseus and a staff, but that was before Anniversary. When using pet jewellery and no %str or %int items you might still need something granting stats even to equip your main stat gear. Highest requirement on staves is 640 int, str gear is 600+ str, stonebinders - 425 dex, prowlers cuirass - 480. I think I went 2 : 1 int : dex on my ritualist and still can only equip best staves only with requirements reducing items.


Quote
3. Is spear a good choice for melee?
If you invest in its damage its good, like all things I guess. I would dare say spears are actually best melee weapons in the game, but it doesn't mean you don't need to invest in them when using them.

Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #3 on: 14 July 2018, 12:40:44 »
Sorry read my next post
« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 12:59:46 by CrocMagnum »

Offline botebote77

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #4 on: 14 July 2018, 12:45:09 »
never played ritualist but i can safely say that traps are so much stronger than wolves.. plus you can throw them and stay far back behind.. like i did with Typhon here:

Spoiler for Hiden:
last part.. actually i could've thrown it much farther if i zoomed out my view.. for traps, 3 jewelries are enough
edit: so i had it zoomed all along ahah :D

but that one is not ritualist

but for playing HC, i really wouldn't recommend a pure petmaster.. people think it's safe because you don't have to fight.. i say it's safer if you can kill mobs and bosses much quicker
« Last Edit: Today at 04:11:04 by botebote77 »
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Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #5 on: 14 July 2018, 12:59:54 »
I wanna make an "immortal" Ritualist, kinda...1. Should I go for Str or Int, or pure petmancer?
2. What gear to look for?
3. Is spear a good choice for melee?
4. Any possibility for pure Str caster, using buff from SotP and the physical skills from Dream?

Hi, nargil66! How are you doing? I can't believe you're trying to have some fun instead of finishing Deities. :P

Ritualist is a fun class to play, but they have a big weakness: Their Dex -48 from Nature- and Strength -64 from Dream- are quite low. This is a big issue, if you're a Leroy Jenkins like me you'll take a ton of critical hits unless you invest reasonably in Dex. Solving the low Strength issue is easier: you just need a Captain's Signet which greatly reduces STR requirements for Armors/Weapons/Shields. This is a critical item for the Ritualist, actually I think the Ritualist is the class which needs it the most.

The Captain's Signet is an easy from Act 2/3/4 Normal (I often get mine from Act 2 ^^). In the Anniversary Edition you need to be at least level 22 to wear it (in Immortal Throne it was level 21). I know that a seasoned player like you is probably aware of the Captain's Signet nargil66, but I need to clarify just in case a beginner reads this. ^^

From experience nothing good comes from using a spear with a Ritualist, you need a faster weapon so that Psionic Touch (and synergy) triggers more often (it works with staves too).

...now for 4th question, i think that would be difficult.. distort reality has 12 seconds cooldown and at 80% CDR, you can only get it to as low as 2.4secs and the damage would still be not enough at least for a str build.. distortion wave would be better for that because the first 2 skills scales with str and the reduced armor really helps.. the problem is the energy cost is HUGE for a non-int build.. you can wear golden fleece and seal of the high priest but would that be worth it for a physical damage build? i don't think so.. i think the best build to utilize distortion wave is str+int and i think the devs made it that way as evidenced by the fact that the first 2 skills scales with str but the 3rd scales with int.. this one i can say from experience.. my Haruspex has no other attack but distortion wave and my first dreamkiller, part of that theorycraft is reducing armor with distortion wave then letting traps deal physical damage.. my bracers were also twisted coil of the parasite to reduce resists via throwing knives...

Dear friend, I see you forgot about the awesome Distort Reality / Refresh Combo, tsst tsst. Especially when you used Refresh to good effect in you excellent Skinchanger - Defensive Petmaster Build Guide  ;D

In the Immortal Throne days you could finish Normal just with this method; I recollect a member from the old forums, Thorien Kell, who wrote a guide about it.




« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 13:23:22 by CrocMagnum »

Offline nargil66

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #6 on: 14 July 2018, 17:02:17 »
Thanks for all the insights. TBH I wanted to make a build that doesn't rely only on pets, it's more boring and if they get all killed, my char will remain very weak. So pure petmancer is out i guess.
Second thing is I've always prefered to play melee characters. Range is safer, I know, but I like the thrill of close combat. If there were a way to combine melee + good survivabiliy... Briar Ward maybe? The main reason the build was so successful in LoC was the Quillvine's Sanctuary skill which imo is the most OP skill in v1.1. But vanilla briar ward has a very long cooldown...
To respond to some of your answers:

what is pure petmancer stat distribution? some people make it pure int to equip a pet buff staff.. but i think that would be a mistake because you will end up with much higher int than you need.. i have seen str+dex+int petmasters with dex being the highest endgame to get as much DA as possible.. that one i can agree with.. but my skinchanger, the closest i have to a pure petmaster, is str+dex+int until end of epic and then start of legendary onwards, i pumped only health.. but that is because i did not rely on DA for survivability but briar ward + damage absorption combo.. something only possible for a skinchanger.. for what it's worth, i think stat distribution for a petmaster should be str+dex+int because since you will not deal damage anyway, you are better off equipping the best items you can find whatever the requirement is.. but do not start hybrid stat right away, start with 1 or 2 stats except pure dex
That's close to what I imagine for pure petmancer - relatively balanced stats to equip whatever gear you need + good DA or health.

distortion wave would be better for that because the first 2 skills scales with str and the reduced armor really helps.. the problem is the energy cost is HUGE for a non-int build.. you can wear golden fleece and seal of the high priest but would that be worth it for a physical damage build? i don't think so.. i think the best build to utilize distortion wave is str+int and i think the devs made it that way as evidenced by the fact that the first 2 skills scales with str but the 3rd scales with int.. this one i can say from experience..

...finally, i think character building should be free and not be bound by any rules so please feel free to build a str build dream caster and prove me wrong :)) i promise i would not be mad.. in fact, if you succeed, i would be happy because there is another ridiculous build.. pls share it with us if you decide to do so
How would you distribute stats for a Str/Int char? Distortion Wave seems like a good choice indeed, but I never figured out how to make a proper build which focus on the physical part of it... thought about a pure Str melee/caster Harbinger or Evoker, but the results on testing aren't that great... Maybe with SotP the physical bonus will at least more reliable than Onslaught/Battle Rage or Volatility. Idk really.

About my spear question -  it seemed like a good choice, if i go for melee + DW/PhantomStrike... even though its a slow weapon, the damage is highest, maybe the speed buffs from HotO, Temporal Flux and SotP will compensate?

Good idea about Captain's Signet Croc, for many builds actually. Ima definetly farm for it. I'll try your Refresh idea too.
About Deities, I can't work on it atm, so why not have some fun for a while ;)
« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 17:04:35 by nargil66 »
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Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #7 on: 14 July 2018, 17:21:46 »
Oh you wanna go melee with your Ritualist? Then I take back what I said about spears. :)

Like you said increasing STR/DEX and going spears to maximize the damage of Phantom Strike makes sense.

If I recollect Phantom Strike needs some good Offensive Ability to hit reliably (or maybe were there terrain issues in Immortal Throne). Anyways the skill Premonition, in the Temporal Flux tree, grants you Offensive Ability. But unlike  Immortal Throne where it was %-based (better) it is sadly a flat bonus in the Anniversary Edition. So you’ll need items to raise your Offensive ability to good levels.
 
About your question about Strength of the Pack, it will indeed increase your Physical Damage and your Total Speed quite nicely.
 
« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 17:25:03 by CrocMagnum »

Offline botebote77

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #8 on: 14 July 2018, 17:25:30 »

How would you distribute stats for a Str/Int char? Distortion Wave seems like a good choice indeed, but I never figured out how to make a proper build which focus on the physical part of it...
i very rarely play it anymore.. good thing i wrote a guide

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=18.0

my endgame items have been changed a bit iirc the chest armor is now batrachos breastplate with golden fleece, Athena's battle greaves, Pelaron, then ring of taranis in favor of crest of murong i think.. basically a little less resists in favor of a bit more damage.. but still positive resists
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Offline botebote77

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Re: The optimal Ritualist build?
« Reply #9 on: 15 July 2018, 01:59:01 »
there is one downside to a pure strength dream caster

good luck getting very high physical resistance when facing mobs and bosses that deal thorns damage

this is one advantage of an elemental build.. it's easy to get high elemental resistance and absorption
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