Author Topic: Earth and Rune  (Read 290 times)

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Offline oldage

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Earth and Rune
« on: 13 July 2018, 14:36:57 »
I usually play a avenger, ranger or sage. I started a Pyro when i noticed all the throw items After looking at mastery's decided on trying Rune since I never tried before . I'm at level 12 Normal. was using bow and staff. Dumped the bow for throw weapon and shield. Already see it will be interesting with the short range of the throw weapon. Years ago used knives with a rogue, and enjoyed.
I'm not thinking of playing beyond Epic I'm old and slow.

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #1 on: 13 July 2018, 15:28:57 »
Stonespeaker has to be one of the better combinations left for earth in ragnarok. I haven't tried it, just judging from the surface. Fire elemental damage needs to deal with fire resistance and fire damage absorbtion some mobs have. For absorbtion there is rune weapon that hits with 3 elements, and for resistances - a debuff in aftershock, even if not very convenient, it should suffice for bosses.

Comparing it with hybrid attack builds like avengers and the like, everything that elemental mastery can do, rune can usually do better. It has inbuilt skills for that and is more about using weapons than casting spells. Rune weapon, runeword feather and runeword explode.

Stonespeaker would rather be a spellcaster occasionally using weapons. Spells primary, weapons secondary. Though maybe you aren't forced to do that and can build the opposite.

Online Laionidas

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #2 on: 13 July 2018, 18:55:48 »
Stonespeaker would rather be a spellcaster occasionally using weapons. Spells primary, weapons secondary.

Oof,.. I'd really have to disagree on that one. I'm currently playing a dual-throw Stonespeaker, which is 100% a weapon user. It works because of Runeword: Feather allowing for a much smaller strength investment, while Transmutation makes sure that even the points invested in strength (and dexterity), are not wasted.

Offline Hector

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #3 on: 13 July 2018, 19:19:12 »
Shouldn't it be weapons primarily, spells secondary ? build up int%, then bombard with buffed up spells..

I'm also running a pyro at the moment and I thought about using flamesurge as a primary attack but man does it suck so much..

So I bought the points back, chose nature and now aim to create a strong summoner.. but I have no idea if it would worth the hassle.. core dweller dies so quickly even in the first act and even when I use pet jewelry.. I mean how could a "40HP + 10 Armor" help him when he already has 600ish health to being with? is it worth to build his tree that early in the game? that %100 health bonus reward in Act III may also change how they fare in normal but I'm not sure..if its not worth it, I'm gonna remove nature and choose rune instead.. stonespeaker might actually be fun with all that offensive stuff..
« Last Edit: 13 July 2018, 19:22:17 by Hector »

Offline Firebrand

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #4 on: 13 July 2018, 20:15:22 »
I'll butt in, but only because Earth and Rune are likely my favorite masteries, and while I haven't played too much recently, I'm still a pretty avid fan of both.

For the Stonespeaker, I think it's technically possible to go three ways, but one of these makes no sense to me. You could focus almost exclusively on weapons, or on spells, or you could mix the two.

Focusing only on spells makes next to no sense to me, because there are better classes for that. Rune is not that great as far as spells are concerned (Thunder Strike, of course, uses weapon stats), and for example a Summoner or pretty much any other Earth-caster class will do better.

I guess it's easily possible to go only for weapon attacks, which lends itself to an unusual character, but I personally wouldn't do that. The reason for that is that Earth has fantastic spells, probably some of the best in the entire game. Volcanic Orb and Eruption are the two I mean, of course. They affect a huge area and deal tremendous damage. They both outrange throwing weapons; and while you can use Rune Weapon to pump up your intellect, and throw your spells afterwards - when I tried this, the problem was that after pumping my intellect, nothing was left standing to throw my spells at!

On the other hand, you can use Volcanic Orb's extreme range to draw the attention of enemies to yourself, and then put those throwing weapons to use. I personally like throwing an orb, popping an Eruption in around Thunder Strike range, then using Thunder Strike to stun them in the middle of my Eruption so they take some more damage, and then clean up the stragglers with weapon attacks.

I'm sure there are other ways to go around it. In fact, I change it a lot. Sometimes I go heavier on spells, sometimes I rely more on my weapon attacks. The Stonespeaker is a shockingly powerful class, but besides that, I think it's a lot of fun to play, and this variety of strategies it allows is a big part of it in my opinion.

Long story short, enjoy! I find it an excellent choice.

As for Flame Surge, I don't think it's viable to rely on it primarily, because of its short range; but then it's not its job, anyway. I'd still invest points in it, personally. As a Summoner, you should be able to put Volcanic Orb and Eruption to good use, and then clean up the rest with Flame Surge. Minor spoiler, but as you advance in level and skills, you'll be able to reduce its cooldown to zero, and with enough casting speed, it's going to be incredibly powerful against melee mobs that try to gang up on you (especially combined with the low chance of fear, which actually procs a lot when you're spamming the Surge non-stop with 5-6 projectiles each).

It's easy to underestimate, but can be devastating in the right hands.

Online Laionidas

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #5 on: 13 July 2018, 21:36:41 »
Shouldn't it be weapons primarily, spells secondary ? build up int%, then bombard with buffed up spells..

I'm also running a pyro at the moment and I thought about using flamesurge as a primary attack but man does it suck so much..

So I bought the points back, chose nature and now aim to create a strong summoner.. but I have no idea if it would worth the hassle.. core dweller dies so quickly even in the first act and even when I use pet jewelry.. I mean how could a "40HP + 10 Armor" help him when he already has 600ish health to being with? is it worth to build his tree that early in the game? that %100 health bonus reward in Act III may also change how they fare in normal but I'm not sure..if its not worth it, I'm gonna remove nature and choose rune instead.. stonespeaker might actually be fun with all that offensive stuff..

In short: no.

He's good, but not in Normal, like most pets. The point is that you do want him maxed at the beginning of Epic, and preferably all his synergies except Wildfire around Act III Epic, so either you have to start building up his tree early, or save up, or buy back skillpoints later.

Offline oldage

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #6 on: 13 July 2018, 21:45:22 »
Thanks for all the input. I have a pair of Jaguar Claws.  Have been using Volcanic orb for distance and the knife when they come in close Only a couple hard places so far, on was when fighting near Paramus a her kept sucking up my energy  The other in the cave fighting Limos. Too early to tell how efficient this will be only a few points in Rune so far.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #7 on: 13 July 2018, 22:19:47 »
I'll also butt in although might not be necessary :/

first off, i agree with what Firebrand had to say.. throw volcanic orbs first then finish the rest with weapon attacks.. do not engage mobs, let them engage you.. that is what i would do if i play a Stonespeaker.. in fact that is what i do primarily with my spellcasters.. I've played storm so many times already and i always prefer casting lightning bolt first.. the stun, even for 1 second really helps.. VO has 1.5.. but what is more important is you hold the advantage when you can attack while mobs are engaging you instead of the other way around

side story: i think i remember a thread in the old forum where people are saying distortion wave is better than distort reality because distort reality would require you to be near mobs.. well, I'm not one to say which skill is better but i can say that if that is their reasoning, they are using distort reality the wrong way.. you do not get near mobs just to cast distort reality, you cast it when they get near you.. those 2 skills should be used differently.. i wasn't able to butt in that time because i never registered

back to the story: rune mastery might not be good spellcasting wise but it can be good as a secondary mastery.. the reason is runeword:feather, reckless offense, energy armor, menhir wall and rune of life.. rune of life is a really good skill for gear optimization for any character not just for a spellcaster.. the reason is you have the option to not go with demons blood.. you have the option to go with 2 purple rings instead of always getting at least 1 green ring.. or you can still go with 1 demons blood but not get more vit res from items allowing you to focus more on %damage, DA, all skills or whatever you need

back to rune spellcaster: i can only speak for my thunderer.. in fact, i feel silly that i did not trust my own theorycraft at first when i played my thunderer.. it's turning out to be right up there with my sorcerer and haruspex (my 2 best spellcasters).. i can't say the same for a stonespeaker though because the best str based weapon i can think of is might of Hephaestus but that only gives 50% fire and burn.. 2 would just result in 100%.. 1Persephone's alone gives 100% cold.. Lykaion Malleus gives about 60%? Lightning as well as recharge and energy cost.. i said str based so as to take advantage of runeword:feather so you can go all int or mostly int.. since there seems to be no worthy str based weapon to be a spellcaster, perhaps a mix spellcaster/weapon user is the best route.. Chakram of the Sun and Laevateinn comes to mind

now the reason why i wanted to butt in was because nobody seemed to mention magical charge.. The OP clearly said a build for normal and "old and slow".. and magical charge is one of the best skills for normal if you are playing self-found or mostly self-found and also playing slow :]  .. earth has many good skills for normal but they are best for fast paced players imo.. still, a mix of spellcasting wouldn't hurt.. eruption alone is reason enough :)

ps: my windows 10 is acting weird again.. too much lag.. again.. sheesh
« Last Edit: 13 July 2018, 22:31:52 by botebote77 »
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Offline Mook

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #8 on: 14 July 2018, 01:22:25 »
I am at  the start of Act V normal and having fun with my sword (sabertooth) and board stonespeaker. I am concentrating on the lines of Rune Weapon , Earth Enchantment and my right mouse is volcanic orb which I use as a stun attack. ( It took a while for me to realize that fragments stun too, and any latecomers also get stunned when they hit the fire) I have a low heat shield up , and when feeling threatened  use eruption, sacred rage and stone form, in that order.  Somewhere in Hades I started buying health potions, they are now part of most nearly all attacks.
 I have survived most bosses with one or no death, by hunkering down and slashing and burning. Dactyl being a huge exception. Typhon 1 I sheathed the sword and lobbed orbs.
Rightly or wrongly I prioritize attack speed on my gear, second only to +skill, which means I am still wearing Egyptian rogue armor and carrying a shield from Greece (I think), bringing attack speed to 190.

PS I am old and slow too.  :D

By the way,  a couple of questions about shields. I have just found a trickery shield , what is the best add on?  I have a reflect on my present one, should I stay with that, or maybe turtle shell? Does feather modify basic strength, or geared strength. If I gear up to wear it, do the shield properties stick when I destrengthen?

I have a stack of stats to spend, but no doubt I will find fancy gear some time to spend them on.
« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 01:24:21 by Mook »

Offline MedeaFleecestealer

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #9 on: 14 July 2018, 13:18:35 »
Why on earth buy health potions?  They drop practically everywhere.  Only time I buy any is when I reach the Babylon Gardens where I swop out my health potions for Greater ones.  I get 10 of each just to have a few before I start picking up dropped Greater ones.

Offline Deepblue

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #10 on: 14 July 2018, 13:45:13 »
Think the only time I buy them is at the very start so I have some just in case.

Offline Hector

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #11 on: 14 July 2018, 19:50:11 »
Shouldn't it be weapons primarily, spells secondary ? build up int%, then bombard with buffed up spells..

I'm also running a pyro at the moment and I thought about using flamesurge as a primary attack but man does it suck so much..

So I bought the points back, chose nature and now aim to create a strong summoner.. but I have no idea if it would worth the hassle.. core dweller dies so quickly even in the first act and even when I use pet jewelry.. I mean how could a "40HP + 10 Armor" help him when he already has 600ish health to being with? is it worth to build his tree that early in the game? that %100 health bonus reward in Act III may also change how they fare in normal but I'm not sure..if its not worth it, I'm gonna remove nature and choose rune instead.. stonespeaker might actually be fun with all that offensive stuff..

In short: no.

He's good, but not in Normal, like most pets. The point is that you do want him maxed at the beginning of Epic, and preferably all his synergies except Wildfire around Act III Epic, so either you have to start building up his tree early, or save up, or buy back skillpoints later.

So are you saying wildfire is still not applicable even in AE? to tell you the truth, I'm not surprised anymore when it comes to expecting any desired change from this version..

For some time, I've been thinking if it could be possible to swap some skills in certain masteries with the skills monsters use.. for one, I've always wished to use that "armageddon" type fire spell the dune raider archers use.. raining down fireballs and blasting mobs away with it instead of the same old boring ass slow volcanic orb.. or this wildfire spell instead of eruption.. huge burn damage per second coupled with some debuffs (impaired aim anyone?) instead of direct fire damage..
But the most I have wanted to use is the Distortion wave which the Furies use.. it covers much more field compared to the default one in dream mastery and its visuals and the sound effects are also better.. @koderkrazy please see this ^-^   
« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 20:55:23 by Hector »

Offline koderkrazy

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #12 on: 14 July 2018, 21:04:28 »
For some time, I've been thinking if it could be possible to swap some skills in certain masteries with the skills monsters use..
But the most I have wanted to use is the Distortion wave which the Furies use.. @koderkrazy please see this ^-^
Monster skills could easily be given to player character in a bounce mod. But updating skill tree UI is lengthy part. Except buttons rest of the entire UI is an image. For monster skills we'll have to create a new UIs.

If you are talking about only the special effects and not the entire package of Distortionwave then it could be done easily.

Offline Hector

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #13 on: 14 July 2018, 21:30:51 »
Yes, definitely.. I don't know about what others would want but I absolutely couldn't care less about UI and pictures.. they can stay as they are.. just the skills themselves would be enough for me..

Offline mountainblade

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Re: Earth and Rune
« Reply #14 on: 14 July 2018, 22:12:42 »
if you are just replacing existing skills its like a 2 minute job.

https://imgur.com/a/6mlKsDA


you have lots of good ideas Hector, I highly recommend trying to figure out the initial steps of modding. If you can get past setting up the artmanager and figuring out the folder locations to put arz extractions it is actually really fun to tinker around with the game.
« Last Edit: 14 July 2018, 22:31:19 by mountainblade »

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