Poll

Should my Runesmith be INT -focused or STR focused

INTELLIGENCE- SMART MAN
3 (60%)
STRENGTH - STRONG MAN
2 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: Today at 05:35:03

Author Topic: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?  (Read 404 times)

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Offline mountainblade

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First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« on: 05 July 2018, 05:35:03 »
Always loved defense, wanting to test out the new rune mastery and it looks to have some good things even for a phyiscal dmg based defender. (dmg boosting lmb attack, seal of fate/aftershock, good buffs, runeword explode)
However it looks much more focused on elemental damage, and that 100% int boost from runeweapon looks very tasty indeed.

So vote early vote often, the fate of Jim Thunderham is in your hands. voting guide below

INT based build- Pros
different from other defenders
smart
maximizes rune buffs and skills
makes his own preserves in mason jars
cons-
defenses phys dmg boosts WASTED
harder to gear?

STR based build - Pros
Still gets some good buffs from rune- and takes full advantage of defense
easier to gear
Can move heavy logs easily (good if building a cabin)
cons-
doesnt maximize potential of rune weapon
may be easily conned by nefarious vendors
wont fight the week an adam sandler movie releases


Offline botebote77

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #1 on: 05 July 2018, 07:21:51 »
haven't played runesmith yet so I'm abstaining.. besides if i am to play one it would most probably be a hybrid.. symbol of the polymath ftw.. I'll just add a few things:

armor handling at 10/6 gives -30% str requirements so theoretically you can make a predominantly int hybrid that can wear str armors

I'm guessing you're thinking there are more str based gear than int based so a str build is easier to gear? i would disagree with that.. in ragnarok, there are much more items than before that you are sure to find gear for both str build and int build.. there are even more dex based gear now.. also, sometimes a simple green is better than a legendary

or maybe you're thinking str build is easier to gear because you have access to more DA and higher armor? hmm a CDR gear can give you the ability to cast rally every 9secs.. and permanent quick recovery.. more colossus form.. also i think with int gear it's easier to get 12/8 energy armor.. although you can get that with pelaron and golden fleece so both builds should be able to cast it

also, the damage done by shield attacks should also be converted to elemental.. but the additional physical damage granted by the skill will not be converted

finally, sadly, there ain't no good adam sandler movies nowadays
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:

Offline MedeaFleecestealer

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #2 on: 05 July 2018, 08:31:33 »
Not sure with mine.  :-\ Atm I've got mostly strength and dex, but planning to use both Armour Handling and Runeword: Feather so may change to more int/dex.  Toon's only at L19 and reached Rhakotis.

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #3 on: 05 July 2018, 10:35:00 »
Ehm, neither.

Defense is a physical melee support mastery lacking strong attack skills and buffs. Rune mastery is all about the elements. Their only notable synergy is reduced requirements for both armor and weapons and rune adding an autoattack replacer to defense's WPS... while converting damage to elemental and scaling intelligence. Elemental defense hybrids had always been the worst, even if runesmith has to be the best of the worst.

I tried an (int based) runesmith at the very beginning and abandoned it in late epic for poor DPS. Felt like it needed good gear which I did not have. Now, when I do have it, I would rather make a sage :). One critical thing for elemental build is the debuff, without it, your damage in legendary will be halved for no reason. Seal of fate only counts for bosses, it is too slow for regular packs when you're melee. You can at best add monkey kings and/or get debuffing weapon.

Offline Laionidas

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #4 on: 05 July 2018, 14:38:55 »
I agree with what the others said: neither.

You'll need to determine the minimum amount of strength to equip your preferred gear, with both Armor Handling and Runeword: Feather.

Then grab as much dexterity as you need for your weapon, and to reach an acceptable amount of OA (no point being strong if you can't hit anything). Runeword: Feather and gear can also help with this.

Finally, pump the rest in intelligence, and go for max conversion and elemental damage. I'm not sure though whether Transmutation carries over to Defense's shield procs. I think it does, since Rune Weapon appears as an overall buff in the condition bar, but if it doesn't, this build is pretty much handicapped.


armor handling at 10/6 gives -30% str requirements so theoretically you can make a predominantly int hybrid that can wear str armors

Also note that Armor Handling and Runeword: Feather both decrease the strength requirements for shields, so you should be able to equip any end-game shield without investing too much in strength.

Offline botebote77

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #5 on: 05 July 2018, 20:31:22 »
ultimate max armor handling and feather.. then alke and timaios would probably solve str req issues.. that set would maybe be worth it for a runesmith.. those rings drop like candy

edit: then sapros? hmm the extra health from alke and timaios could maybe offset the health penalty from sapros
« Last Edit: 05 July 2018, 20:38:51 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #6 on: 05 July 2018, 22:42:58 »
ultimate max armor handling and feather.. then alke and timaios would probably solve str req issues.. that set would maybe be worth it for a runesmith.. those rings drop like candy

edit: then sapros? hmm the extra health from alke and timaios could maybe offset the health penalty from sapros
Thats almost exactly what I was trying to do, except I never tried Sapros and used monkey kings. Alke and Timaios let runesmith use best str based armor, but do not help such character to do more damage.

Main problem of defense for hybrids - it has no intelligence, no %elemental damage and no flat elemental damage, just nothing for what a hybrid wants to do, and then also naturally low attack speed. Warfare comes on top of it because of dual wield attack rate, and hunting comes on top having both attack speed and a debuff skill.

It might be that a correct runesmith should be using lighter armor, but stacking flat damage on rings instead of Alke and Timaios. Have you tried using arctic rings on anything?

Among other things, expansion changed how flat damage from gear is treated by the game, allowing most of it to scale with corresponding stats and % boosts. Having flat damage from a ring is the same as having it from your weapon itself. Put legendary eitr on it and it becomes dope, you get 100 flat damage. Take two of them to get 200. Thats a lot. Average endgame sword does 200 damage, physical and pierce. Average mace 250 to 300. This awesome plan still requires you having arctic rings however  :) :( And to not want anything else in the ring slots.

Offline mountainblade

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #7 on: 06 July 2018, 00:20:11 »
Wow, shocking lack of respect for the poor runesmith. It sounds like a non-defense mastery may be in order? I feel like earth or storm are the obvious picks, but would a melee elemental based skinchanger be effective? Heart of Oak and Plague and then lots of rune skills. I will need to retreat to my mossy meditation cave and think on this.

Offline tholuneve

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #8 on: 06 July 2018, 07:34:11 »
I am the one who voted int based. By int base, I mean put some points in dex (usually up to 425 to equip Stonebinder), and the rest in int. Invest as little str as possible.
Since OP already mentioned pros and cons for str/int based Runesmith, I'll only answer several questions raised above. To clearify, I did the theory-craft but my friend actually played it, not myself. So I may have some mistakes in details.

1. Where does the base damage come from?
Transmutation of course. It will transfer 99% (at max+4 level) of your weapon and shield damage to elemental, but the added flat damage in Defense mastery skills will not be transfered as bote already mentioned. The BIS weapon for elemental Warfare/Defense, IMO, is an axe, Ritual Cleaver. Its accumulated base damage is more than 400, if I remember correctly. That also partially solves attack speed problem. Resistance reduction is not in very high priority for this build since you are dealing elemental damage, which is the combination of fire, cold and lightning. Only a few monsters have very high elemental resistances and if they do, you still have the Mega Explosion to deal with them. So I would personally skip Sapros, it's really not mandatory and the reduced max life is not easy to compensate with this build.

2. Is it required to equip str-based armor?
Not necessary, I don't think there is any str armor that you can't miss. But if you wish, you can do that. Armor handling from Defense is not sufficient to equip endgame str amor alone. So at least you need one additional item to reduce gear requirement, or the invested points in str would be too much. One good choice for instance, Odysseus' Armor. Alke and Timaios is not a good endgame choice with the high opportunity cost, but they are decent.

3. Warfare and Defense
I don't think Defense is inferior in terms of int based melee. The only advantage for Warfare is that endgame weapon has much higher damage than shield (as I mentioned above). OA and attack speed can be compensated with good gear. Defense has its own pros. The resistances provided by Defiance and Iron Will are huge, and shield charge gives you advantage over ranged monsters which warwind cannot.

So my conclusion is that this build is pretty viable and not handicapped at all. Yes it is more gear reliant than str based, but when you get these gear, it has higher potential.
« Last Edit: 06 July 2018, 07:39:39 by tholuneve »

Offline Firebrand

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #9 on: 07 July 2018, 01:41:40 »
I'm not an expert, especially when it comes to Defense, but I've seen the recommendation of your Arctic Ring and thought that it might be appropriate to raise you probably my favorite ring in the game (yes, I'm biased): Seal of Hephaestus.

While there's no way to enchant it with Eitr, It already comes with 111 burn damage, even if over three seconds. The duration might seem like a bad thing, but keep in mind that the Runesmith's copious multi-hitting abilities (Runeword: Explode, Shield Charge, Batter - Rend Armor, Pulverize) should help you spread it, while normally you're only hitting one enemy, so it helps out more than you think. The damage's already fairly formidable, but there's also +70% fire and +70% burn damage. The burn damage of course should boost the aforementioned flat burn damage bonus, and the +70% fire should contribute quite a bit to your normal (transmuted) weapon damage. The fire resistance might be welcome, and the chance of high physical resistance might definitely come in handy for a Defense character in my opinion. Bonus health is never a bad thing, and while the Brimstone bonus is not that great for a Runesmith, the level 11 Heat Shield is something I use on my Stonespeaker, because it's much easier than putting that many points into the Heat Shield skill.

All in all, while you won't be able to use it to boost your attack speed, I find that it's usually quite easy to reach maximum in that anyway, and in every other aspect it's a great item worth trying, in my opinion!

Offline mountainblade

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #10 on: 07 July 2018, 02:46:20 »
Well the game has spoken:

Spoiler for Hiden:

testing out random dream skills and that is what dropped after killing nessus. I will go the INT route. I also kinda want to see what Rune weapon could do for Trance of Wrath on a melee Seidr

Offline Laionidas

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #11 on: 07 July 2018, 10:00:48 »
Lol, I like that, how the game decided for you.

Offline WNG

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #12 on: 07 July 2018, 18:43:43 »
How come you have billions of HP?
-- "The poor game developer lack much, but the greedy game developer lack more."

-- Want to kill other Titanslayers? This is for you : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1394111623

Offline Laionidas

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #13 on: 07 July 2018, 20:14:26 »
How come you have billions of HP?

Yeah, that doesn't look exactly legit, though on the other hand, if he really did have billions of HP, he'd never get down to so few. I'm guessing he's using some kind of mod that breaks down and divides HP points by a factor thousand or so.

Offline mountainblade

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Re: First Time Ragnoraking- Runesmith INT or STR based?
« Reply #14 on: 09 July 2018, 03:54:55 »
How come you have billions of HP?

cause im a low-down dirty rotten no good cheatin SCOUNDREL.

I love the new rune mastery for early game, a few points into runeweapon and the elemental damage synergy and I have flown through act 1 in a few hours, just reached heraklion. Just picked up Seal of Fate and I love it. Ragdolling gorgons all over the place. Goal is to rush 32 in rune, pick up absorb for mana and then get aftershock, as I assume it is the main boss killer.

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