Author Topic: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune  (Read 1219 times)

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Offline botebote77

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Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« on: 07 June 2018, 15:36:25 »
lolz for fun i created a cheat test character elementalist focusing on weapon damage converted to elemental.. the items:

blessing of the moirae - 33%
golden agris helmet - 50%
legendary eitr - 20%

for some reason the converted to elemental is not shown on tq-db but in game, it is listed

33 + 50 + 20 = 103% converted to elemental (assuming the stacking is additive) so that should stack to 100% meaning full attack of throwing weapon is converted to elemental

that is then enhanced by storm nimbus, earth enchantment, eye of the storm, volatility, squall and my occult rings.. i even wore twisted coil of the parasite and moon disc, then thoth's glory for the 20% reduced requirements so i can spend less on str and dex

the damage is somewhat respectable in legendary act 4 but it's not for me because it's only single target attack and the range is very short lolz.. in xmax x3 i don't clear mobs fast enough to support core dweller and my toon is still very glassy

still it could be fun if someone makes a surprisingly good "converted to elemental" build without rune :D  .. maybe earth and storm is not the right combination.. I've thought about brigand but i just don't see how it could be better than a normally built brigand.. maybe illusionist or something with dream? :) I've been theorycrafting for an int based conqueror but there's no % elem damage and the shield procs would be wasted because it don't work with throwing




edit: for the record, i don't cheat on my characters  :)  .. this is just for fun and i don't plan to make a new character just for that because the level req of blessing of the moirae is lvl 59
« Last Edit: 07 June 2018, 15:47:19 by botebote77 »
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finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Tauceti

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #1 on: 07 June 2018, 20:57:03 »
A surprising build without rune.
what about Druid ? It could be funny  ;)

P.S. elemental conversion works as damage absorption, that is stacking is multiplicative.

Offline tholuneve

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #2 on: 08 June 2018, 03:42:14 »
P.S. elemental conversion works as damage absorption, that is stacking is multiplicative.
Last time I checked (1.53), it is additive. But since you said that, I will check again with the latest version. It's important to confirm the correct method to calculate.

And as for the topic itself, I would suggest Earth/Storm + Warfare/Defense/Hunting/Dream. Each one of the combination should work and Storm are automatically superior to Earth in terms of damage since converted damage contains only 1/3 of fire damage.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #3 on: 08 June 2018, 04:51:55 »
would appreciate your tests tholuneve

i thought about something but preferably i have one more source of converted to elemental from a non-weapon or shield

i remember i just found staff of the covenant just a few days ago.. it's a staff that deals physical damage but requires very high int.. now i remember in the early days of ragnarok i found carnyx staff.. it's also a staff that deals physical and it has a hidden attribute: it has 100% chance to pass through enemies.. if staff of the covenant also have that hidden attribute, this should go well with ternion  ;D

i just need one more source of converted to elemental.. anybody has anything in mind? i hope i can find one in my vault.. triple eitr would kill my resists so it's out
« Last Edit: 08 June 2018, 08:11:33 by botebote77 »
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Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Tauceti

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #4 on: 08 June 2018, 07:42:50 »
Last time I checked (1.53), it is additive. But since you said that, I will check again with the latest version. It's important to confirm the correct method to calculate.
I am no more on TQ now, i've read tests on elemental conversion somewhere and that was convincing, so i kept the information in mind. But where was that.. uhuuh, couldn't say.
Make your own tests ;D

Offline botebote77

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #5 on: 08 June 2018, 08:06:39 »
if i would also assume it's multiplicative because the closest thing to elemental conversion is pierce conversion, which in TQ is pierce ratio.. pierce ratio is multiplicative

GD seems to have many damage conversions, maybe some of the GD guys know.. I'm a novice in GD

everytime i distance myself from TQ it pulls me back lolz.. but my playing time is much less now.. Tauceti, i was rooting for your ternion HC challenge.. when i read it died i was like ooowwwwww damn

edit: a good way to test this is stacking 100% converted to elemental through items.. then what some people do that makes the game treat each attack as crit. if there's no damage numbers then that's probably additive because elem damage don't crit.. i don't know how to do that (hack?) treat each attack as crit.. i have the items but does someone know how to do that?
« Last Edit: 08 June 2018, 08:27:57 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline tholuneve

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #6 on: 08 June 2018, 11:10:24 »
if i would also assume it's multiplicative because the closest thing to elemental conversion is pierce conversion, which in TQ is pierce ratio.. pierce ratio is multiplicative

GD seems to have many damage conversions, maybe some of the GD guys know.. I'm a novice in GD

everytime i distance myself from TQ it pulls me back lolz.. but my playing time is much less now.. Tauceti, i was rooting for your ternion HC challenge.. when i read it died i was like ooowwwwww damn

edit: a good way to test this is stacking 100% converted to elemental through items.. then what some people do that makes the game treat each attack as crit. if there's no damage numbers then that's probably additive because elem damage don't crit.. i don't know how to do that (hack?) treat each attack as crit.. i have the items but does someone know how to do that?
Yeah that's what I plan to do. Since we only need to test if the physical damage still exists, so just attack some dummies, scarecrow, bell or something else. If crits still exist, then it's multiplicative, otherwise it's additive.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #7 on: 08 June 2018, 23:47:21 »
update on this: (but would still wait for your tests tholuneve)

it seems to be additive (my assumption was incorrect :) )

i didn't know how to make that hack to make the game treat each damage as crit.. but i found Hofud in my vault.. it's a sword that converts 50% of weapon damage to elemental.. it's a sword so it shows my crit attacks

my test was Hofud (50% converted) first
i hit the dummies in sparta and there were still damage numbers,
next i equipped golden agris helmet (50%) still with Hofud
there were no damage numbers no matter how many times i attack
so that should mean there was no physical damage left, all damage converted to elemental

as for the topic: sage worked well.. it's a true glass cannon.. i still deal some AoE from marksmanship and volley.. the kill speed was good with squall and flush out.. but it takes practice and some getting used to because there are many active skills to cast: monster lure, squall and study prey are constants, then for bosses, spell breaker.. not to mention the continuous left clicking of marksmanship.. monster lure is a must because blessing of the moirae has short range it's hard to kite.. the damage was pretty good legendary Hades went down quickly. items were the same from my 1st post

i really thought templar would perform well but it's still too glassy.. by concentrating on int too much, i can't get enough DA.. if i use a defensive shield instead of moon disc, DPS becomes lower.. maybe i need better items but eh it's too gear dependant as it is already

P.S: so there's a real agris helmet found in a cave in France.. i learned something new today :)
« Last Edit: 09 June 2018, 00:03:53 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #8 on: 09 June 2018, 02:36:45 »
honestly though ice shard is still stronger.. it's just too mana hungry but it's still better.. in x3, the short range of throwing weapon is really a handicap.. against mobs it's ok because of monster lure but against 3 Hades, it's too difficult to kite.. ice shard is still better
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #9 on: 09 June 2018, 20:26:43 »
I have a question about damage conversion though its not completely related to the topic.. Does "Transmutation" only convert the base damage of a weapon like its description suggests, or does it convert any flat physical damage bonuses on a character as well?
I have an armor with the "Mountaineer" prefix and I wonder if that "15 damage" bonus in it would also be converted to elemental by transmutation..   

Offline botebote77

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #10 on: 09 June 2018, 21:09:35 »
clex plays made good tests of this



jump to 14:00 for damage conversion mechanics

tldr: if it says damage bonus, it gets added to the weapon and is therefore converted.. if it only says damage, it's a no

made more tests on Hofud: if it's not obvious already, 2 Hofud will result in 100% damage conversion.. no need for golden agris

tried more tests with templar, DA can be solved with maxed battle awareness and premonition.. the problem is kill speed.. very low OA results in misses.. also, it doesn't crit

i want it dream because psionic touch and phantom strike boosts total damage.. so I'm gonna have to test harbinger next with archmages clasp for permanent battle standard.. a harbinger that uses psionic touch instead of onslaught yeeesh

edit: i checked mountaineer's on tq-db.. it says 15 physical damage, so that would be a no.. from the few things I've tested, it doesn't convert the 10 damage from dual wield skill, the physical damage from battle standard, and the added physical damage from shield attacks.. the damage from the shield itself is converted i think
« Last Edit: 10 June 2018, 00:44:36 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #11 on: 11 June 2018, 00:00:05 »
Wow, so much to learn from this guy's channel.. its bad news but still good to know rather than blindly investing on flat damage I guess..
Thanks mate.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #12 on: 10 July 2018, 04:34:00 »
I'm going for this with int+dex archer dreamkiller because of this

but an actual character this time.. no more tests.. i decided to just go for it
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Vio

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #13 on: 10 July 2018, 10:38:44 »
there's a real agris helmet found in a cave in France.. i learned something new today :)

In fact many of the items are based on real ones. If you look for celtic / norse archeology or terms like Hochdorf, Hallstatt, La Tčne, Gundestrupp or of course Heuneburg and Glauberg you may recognize a few more.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
« Reply #14 on: 11 July 2018, 14:24:07 »
(warning: wall of text)

alright so i started this as an accomplished hero character.. stat distribution here is tricky.. this is not for people who strictly follow ratio stat distribution.. ratio stat distribution makes things simple but when trying out new builds that requires micro-management, it won't get you anywhere.. you can't be a robot just following orders and being very systematic but not knowing when to adjust.. you have to create your own guideline.

I tried balancing dex and int first but even lvl 40 is not enough to get me enough stat points to wear good gear.. so i pressed undo and decided to just load up on dex to wear a good bow (teucers).. i failed to realize that was a mistake.. by investing heavily on dex (high 300+), i could only get my int to low 200+.. as a result, i couldn't wear a good int based armor so i ended up with store bought yellow chest armor and greaves.. I still continued and it resulted in 4 deaths before i even got to the 3rd portal lolz.. 3 of those were from primrose passage.. this is xmax x3 btw as that is my default mode.. i could've worn santas or the like but decided to just reroll another accomplished hero character.. it's still inferior compared to an int  build anyway especially early game.. couldn't even deal a good single target damage even though i was using teucers on normal.

So i started over again with an int build distortion wave caster wielding a staff (Delysid) but not really overcommitting to int.. i wore Thoth's Mark and Eye of Horus so i could get enough int to wear caster gear.. i had to save some stat points reserved for dex so i could equip a bow and respec my skills later on.. by level 42, i was able to equip Meerkwood bow.. that meant replacing my rings with greens so i could go for 3 Eitrs (60% converted to elemental + some flat elemental damage).. just normal but i will replace it with epic version once i get to lvl 45.. i could've went full caster until lvl 51 (golden agris) but that defeats the purpose of a bow elemental build.

also, one thing i didn't see while theorycrafting was i needed a good cast speed too for traps and distort reality.. traps are much better with good cast speed but it's more important for distort reality.. as squishy as this build is, distort reality is an important part of this build especially that this is an int build.. a slight cast delay could result in a death.. so i went with 1 Occult ring of grace, 1 Plato's ring of grace and a divine amulet all socketed with Eitrs.. The 2 rings are both of grace so i could get enough dex for Meerkwood bow.. I might replace my Plato's with Socrate's and then wraithlord's later on.. As for Occult, i think that will stick for a long time maybe even endgame.

I usually don't want to equip purples while still on normal but i see this as an exception.. I had to dig deep on my vault for items (majority of those i can't equip because of lvl requirement).. I didn't have enough Eitrs so I had to farm for many many Eitrs first using one of my other characters (that was a pain).. the fact that the standard completion bonus is slower attack for 5 seconds made it all the more painful.. i couldn't even get 1 with attack speed.. bah if I'm going to replace it by lvl 45, it's not worth farming for more

it's a male character with the name Sommelier.. lelz
Spoiler for Hiden:
going smoother now and still no deaths so far yaay.. 3 goldtooth and primrose passage were noticeably easier this time

btw, the 4th hit of psionic touch is AoE but the real AoE of this build comes from traps

our internet service provider is shitty right now.. lots of times we don't have internet
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

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