Author Topic: Archers Without Hunting  (Read 1340 times)

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Offline botebote77

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Archers Without Hunting
« on: 06 November 2017, 11:10:55 »
(sorry and thank you for borrowing your title psych, i just think it's catchy)

Yes it's very possible to make a still good archer build even if you don't have hunting.. I have first hand experience with my illusionist.. other archer builds without hunting I'd like to try are dreamkiller and (all hell break loose) elementalist.. Core Dweller is tankier now and eruption would benefit from high strength.. %total damage and resistance reduction would also shine with multiple types of damages.. I'm picturing symbol of the polymath for this build.. i also like to try hybrid archer sage since monster lure is also tankier now and the RR from study prey and squall would stack.. but that is with hunting and should be in another thread

But really, i just want to use this thread to talk about some of the changes in AE regarding archers in general

Calculated Strike:
+ Empowered arrows pierce through all targets

Onslaught:
+ Now also increases arrow speed by 15-114%

Scatter Shot Arrows:
+ Now do 80% of their damage as Bleeding over 3 seconds

With changes to calculated strike and onslaught, it's like the devs are almost encouraging you to try archers without hunting.. the nerf to scatter shot also really hurts.. not much because bleed now scales with dex and it still deals the same amount of damage, just DoT now right? wrong

i actually experimented on this with a test cheat char in legendary, scaling dex with a few points first and then gradually increasing it to see how much dex you need for the damage to be noticeable.. well, i got it to 2000 dex and bleed is still pitiable.. not to mention totally useless against undeads and constructs.. with scatter shot maxed.. i didn't put too much points in strength because i want to concentrate on just bleed damage (this is a test char anyway).. it becomes a little more noticeable with study prey but still pitiful

with this i actually wondered if poison is better than bleed since i deal very good damage with my knifethrower.. a friend had a good explanation for this.. he said it's not about this or that.. the problem is it's DoT and would not stack with other DoTs of the same type.. yes i accept that logic.. if it's pierce it would easily stack with other pierce.. but with DoT, nope

i might be wrong here (especially since i haven't played TQIT in years and I've lost all my saves in that) but i believe against mobs, it's possible to hit a monster with more than 1 fragment especially with maxed puncture shot and volley.. now if that was pierce, the damage would easily stack.. it might be one of the reasons why scatter shot was so overpowered in TQIT.. but now it's bleed and would not stack with other bleeds

Another explanation i have is maybe certain monsters have reduction in bleed duration.. that is asides from their bleed res.. i tested this against different monsters from rhodes to soronis by the way.. Personally i think it should be about 50% bleed instead of 80%

Don't get me wrong, i still like hunting for archers.. getting CotH permanent is almost always worth it in most hunting toons.. btw, if anyone is wondering how to get permanent CotH, you need around 65% CDR.. refresh from nature is a shortcut.. Also, volley and study prey are just too valuable for archers.. but if i am to make a brigand in AE, i would seriously consider getting calculated strike instead of marksmanship especially since if volley procs on an empowered hit, it would theoretically deal massive damage.. maybe the same for an archer slayer but onslaught has no chance to pass through enemies so im not sure

This is not a rant although it might seem so :)  ..  This is just an attempt at offering a possible explanation on why scatter shot feels so underpowered now

Sssooo, anyone with an archer toon without hunting? please share your experience in this thread.. Or if you think I'm just making things up, criticizing is also welcome :)
« Last Edit: 08 November 2017, 04:46:34 by botebote77 »
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Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #1 on: 08 November 2017, 00:12:13 »
late possible explanation:

as some of us know, shields either negate the damage completely or not block it at all.. shield does not reduce damage (if it's not multiple types of damage)

so, if you're hitting monsters wearing shields, it's much easier to block the puny 20% pierce damage and the 80% bleed because the pierce would be blocked separately from the bleed.. and the bleed would be divided in 3 seconds so it's also easier to block

damn, it's much easier to explain this if we have a guide on shield block mechanics.. can someone share a link pls on shield block mechanics? so this gets easier to understand

edit: after some digging:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=148217054

just scroll down to shield block.. some mechanics have been changed in AE but the shield block is the same i think
« Last Edit: 08 November 2017, 00:55:49 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Benitot

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #2 on: 08 November 2017, 16:32:15 »


as some of us know, shields either negate the damage completely or not block it at all.. shield does not reduce damage (if it's not multiple types of damage)



Is that for real? I have played for all these years and never knew that

Offline botebote77

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #3 on: 08 November 2017, 23:34:46 »


as some of us know, shields either negate the damage completely or not block it at all.. shield does not reduce damage (if it's not multiple types of damage)



Is that for real? I have played for all these years and never knew that

yes, see the steam link.. that's why the most important attribute of a shield is the amount of damage it can block
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #4 on: 23 January 2018, 19:38:59 »
I realize that there is no info chart for total %block chance on character screen like it used to be in TQIT.. Is this something to be corrected in the future or does Nordic simply not want us to know the value? What kind of a nonsense is this!? Do you have AE? Is it the same in it too or is this another Ragnarok related Bulls...?

Offline Benitot

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #5 on: 23 January 2018, 20:09:27 »
I realize that there is no info chart for total %block chance on character screen like it used to be in TQIT.. Is this something to be corrected in the future or does Nordic simply not want us to know the value? What kind of a nonsense is this!? Do you have AE? Is it the same in it too or is this another Ragnarok related Bulls...?

Yes it's only for Ragnarok. Would be good if they displayed it

Offline Hector

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #6 on: 23 January 2018, 20:17:30 »
Thank you, Benitot.. :-\

Offline Pazuzu

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #7 on: 23 January 2018, 21:46:49 »
Pretty sure i played a bow avenger at some point. isnt that warfare and earth?
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Offline botebote77

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #8 on: 23 January 2018, 21:51:53 »
hunting/earth :) keep in mind though this was written pre-ragnarok.. ragnarok offers more crazier builds
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Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Pazuzu

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #9 on: 23 January 2018, 22:00:02 »
 o then mine was warfare earth. forgot what its called and cant check cause im on mobile
Corsair Carbide Air 540 - Asus Maximus VI Hero - Pentium G3258 5Ghz - Thermalright TS 140 Power - Samsung EVO 850 250GB - Corsair Dual Airflow Fan - Corsair Vengeance 8gb - Nvidia GTX 750Ti.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #10 on: 23 January 2018, 22:05:36 »
battlemage.. kudos that is an unusual build as well :))
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hal900x

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c
« Reply #11 on: 23 January 2018, 22:45:57 »
I am absolutely dead sick of devs messing with the mechanics each time they get their grubby little fingers on TQ, thus invalidating the hard-won info available on the 'nets. "We are adding Act IV..change everything!". "We are making an Anniversary Edition...change everything!". "We just bought the rights to TQ, and we're gonna add a new Act...change everything!". It's time to STOP!

Offline botebote77

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #12 on: 23 January 2018, 22:51:42 »
it has always been like that dude.. not just in TQ.. we as gamers find loopholes the devs might have missed.. that's how OP chars are born.. now the devs will fix it and again we as gamers find other loopholes that break the game.. it's the circle of life we all are part of it :)
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline legowarrior

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Re: Archers Without Hunting
« Reply #13 on: 24 January 2018, 00:13:58 »
It's all about the hunt!

Although I love the changes to poison, bleeding and traps!

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