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Offline botebote77

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A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« on: 27 February 2018, 22:40:53 »
Before i started writing this, i actually had to convince myself that I'm capable of writing a guide with comprehensive in the title :) . But Rogue is actually my favorite mastery and i have tried it as a melee, ranged, petmaster, and mage. I actually wrote guides on knifethrower mage sorcerer and petmaster illusionist before but i have tried it with other masteries as well.

I will be listing every skill, list its description, rank it from 1 to 5, and talk about how i use it.

I decided to use this ranking system but foreword: just because a skill is ranked 5/5, doesn't mean it's recommended for every build. The same for 1/5 or 2/5. Just because i ranked it low doesn't mean it's useless. A skill is just like a weapon. A blunt weapon or a small knife may not look scary but in the hands of a true master, they can be deadly. Remember when John Wick once killed 3 people with a f****n pencil? heh :))

1/5 - hardly worth putting any points to
2/5 - below average. not that good but not useless either
3/5 - average
4/5 - good. above average. not perfect but a good skill nonetheless
5/5 - great skill. recommended for most builds

I've included some spoiler videos if you want to see how a skill works and also to show some hidden tricks

Abbreviations you will see in this guide:
CDR - cooldown reduction
CC - crowd control
CS - Calculated Strike
PGB - Poison Gas Bomb
SB cuffs - Stonebinder's cuffs
AoE - Area of Effect
AE/R - Anniversary Edition/Ragnarok

Rogue Mastery lvl 32:
+56 strength
+80 dexterity
1120 health

Calculated Strike and Lucky Hit:

Calculated Strike:
Used in place of your normal attack, every fourth hit with calculated strike will deliver increased damage. Assign this skill to your left mouse button.

skill lvl: 1/8
100% Chance to pass through enemies
3 charge levels
+45% (physical) damage
35 piercing damage

skill lvl: 8/8
100% Chance to pass through enemies
3 charge levels
+156% (physical) damage
103 piercing damage

skill lvl: 12/8 (ultimate max)
100% Chance to pass through enemies
3 charge levels
+221% (physical) damage
159 piercing damage

Lucky Hit:
Uncommonly good fortune provides a chance that calculated strikes will slip past enemy armor causing tremendous damage.

skill lvl: 1/6
44% chance for one of the following:
78 (physical) damage
+70% pierce damage
120 bleeding damage over 3 seconds

skill lvl: 6/6
44% chance for one of the following:
228 (physical) damage
+215% pierce damage
414 bleeding damage over 3 seconds

skill lvl: 10/6
44% chance for one of the following:
348 (physical) damage
+351% pierce damage
744 bleeding damage over 3 seconds

Both skills have been boosted in AE/R. Calculated Strike now has 100% chance to pass through enemies. Lucky hit chance proc has been boosted from 33% to 44%. The damage likewise has been boosted. Most people used to leave lucky hit at level 1 pre-AE but I've had a good amount of experience with this and i think lucky hit procs quite often now. Calculated strike now passes through enemies every 4th hit making this a good skill for bows as well as throwing weapons. I recommend fast attacking weapons for this to make empowered hits proc more often. Also notice that this has no energy cost. It might not mean much but it can be annoying having to constantly drink mana pots especially if you focus on strength and dex. If you make this your main attack, i say both are worth maxing.

rating: 3/5

I think this is better than psionic touch if you have to choose between the two. Not better than onslaught. Better than marksmanship but only early game, late game marksmanship would be better especially if you have lots of all skills. Compared to rune weapon, probably CS is better if you go str/dex. If you go int, rune weapon is worlds better. If you go hybrid, it's complicated :)

Blade Honing:
While active, this skill ensures that any bladed weapon used by yourself and allies will remain razor sharp and inflict increased piercing damage.

skill lvl: 1/6
16.0 meter radius
+16% increased piercing ratio
3 piercing damage
+50 energy reserved

skill lvl: 6/6
16.0 meter radius
+56% increased piercing ratio
15 piercing damage
+50 energy reserved

skill lvl: 10/6
16.0 meter radius
+88% increased piercing ratio
31 piercing damage
+50 energy reserved

per titanquest.wikia.com:
• Blade Honing provides unique bonus. Rather than simply increasing one's Pierce Damage, it affects property found on swords and spears that converts percentage of one's Damage to Pierce Damage

• Pierce Ratio bonus is multiplicative. Using 30% Pierce Ratio spear and 4th level Blade Honing results in 42% Pierce Ratio.

• This skill switches off if you change to a weapon that isn't a sword or spear (ie: hit the W key to use a bow instead of your melee weapon+shield combo. You have to manually reactivate it upon changing back.

It's still accurate in AE/R so i don't think i have to explain much further. Max this skill if you use sword, spear, or throwing weapon. (If you actually attack with a weapon heh :)) ).  This also seem to affect throwing knife (skill)

rating: 3/5

Lethal Strike and Mortal Wound:

Lethal Strike:
A single deadly hit that multiplies the damage of a normal weapon attack.

skill lvl: 1/8
12 seconds recharge
52 energy cost
+225% physical damage
+225% pierce damage

skill lvl: 8/8
12 seconds recharge
68 energy cost
+500% physical damage
+390% pierce damage

skill lvl: 12/8
12 seconds recharge
74 energy cost
+600% physical damage
+450% pierce damage

Mortal Wound:
Stuns victims of Lethal Strike and greatly magnifies the impact of poison and bleeding damage caused by the attack.

skill lvl: 1/8
15 energy cost
+60% Bleeding Damage
+60% Poison Damage
3 Seconds of Stun

skill lvl: 8/8
15 energy cost
+305% Bleeding Damage
+305% Poison Damage
3 Seconds of Stun

skill points: 12/8
15 energy cost
+445% Bleeding Damage
+445% Poison Damage
3 Seconds of Stun

The %damage on lethal strike is just ginormous. Shield Charge and Phantom Strike might be better for melee but at least Lethal Strike can also be used for ranged weapons. In fact, i think it's better used for ranged weapons because you can stun from afar. I like using this against a mage in a pack of mobs. Interestingly though, you need high base damage on your weapon to fully benefit from the added damage. So while i prefer throwing weapons for calculated strike, i prefer bows for lethal strike. What i did with my illusionist is i equipped a throwing weapon and shield on main, and a bow on secondary. I then set plague as my right click on my main, and lethal strike as right click on my secondary. So if i want to attack with lethal strike, i switch to secondary, right click, then switch back to main. The downside is i have to recast blade honing again. One of my favorite attacks with my illusionist is plague, lethal strike, refresh, lethal strike. That is a good boss killer. I used illusionist in this example because it's the one character i have that uses both calculated strike and lethal strike. On my assassin, i use onslaught instead of calculated strike. But I've made an interesting discovery, if you equip 2 throwing weapons, be it dual wield from warfare or reckless offense from rune, there is a chance you attack with 2 weapons if you attack with lethal strike. It doesn't seem to happen with melee though, only throwing weapons. Now while i think lethal strike is worth maxing, i think mortal wound is not. Poison and bleed now scales with dex but i still think there are better skills you can spend your points on. I recommend max lethal strike and 1pt mortal wound for the stun. Maybe when you've maxed all your preferred skills and you don't know where to spend your extra skill points on. But chances are it will only happen late game. Also, there's a noticeable delay when your attack speed is very low (below 100%). This can be annoying and sometimes dangerous when attacking with left click, then suddenly attacking with Lethal Strike. When you've reached an attack speed of about 120%, there is no noticeable delay.

notice the delay at very low attack speed. I'm hitting the other target so it's more noticeable
Spoiler for Hiden:

watch for the dual wield lethal strike
Spoiler for Hiden:

rating: 4/5

Open Wound:
Adds a chance to inflict bleeding damage when attacking with a sharp or pointed weapon.

skill lvl: 1/12
33% Chance of 27 Bleeding Damage Over 3 Seconds

skill lvl: 12/12
33% Chance of 309 Bleeding Damage Over 3 Seconds

skill lvl: 16/12
33% Chance of 441 Bleeding Damage Over 3 Seconds

It's a passive skill so it's worth a point i guess. It has been boosted in AE/R and bleed now scales with dex but it's still useless against undeads and constructs. It seems to affect throwing knife (the skill) provided you equip a spear, bow, or throwing weapon. But it's still meh

rating: 1/5

Anatomy:
With a deep knowledge of anatomy, attacks can be directed at vital points in the body increasing the chance and effectiveness of bleed damage.

skill lvl: 1/8
36% Bleeding Damage

skill lvl: 8/8
120% Bleeding Damage

skill lvl: 12/8
199% Bleeding Damage

Another passive skill but this is unlike open wound which is only a chance to proc. This boosts all your bleed damage be it from skills or items. And incidentally, rogue has probably the best skill to spread bleeding damage: throwing knife. If you make throwing knife as your main attack, it's worth maxing. If not, maybe just 1pt. If you pair it with dual wield tree as a melee, this is 1-max.

rating: 2/5

Throwing Knife and Flurry of Knives:

Throwing Knife:
Throw a piercing blade at your opponent capable of causing prolonged bleeding.

skill lvl: 1/12
6.0 seconds recharge
18 energy cost
1 projectile
10% chance to pass through enemies
48 Bleeding Damage over 3 seconds
15 Piercing Damage

skill lvl: 12/12
1.6 seconds recharge
29 energy cost
1 projectile
10% chance to pass through enemies
204 Bleeding Damage over 3 seconds
58 Piercing Damage

skill lvl: 16/12
0 seconds recharge
33 energy cost
1 projectile
10% chance to pass through enemies
270 Bleeding Damage over 3 seconds
81 Piercing Damage

max this with +4 from gear to get zero cooldown

Flurry of Knives:
Learn to throw additional knives at once and cut down enemies with a lethal flurry of razor-sharp metal.

skill lvl: 1/12
15 energy cost
1 projectile
26% Pierce Damage

skill lvl: 12/12
24 energy cost
4 projectile
48% Pierce Damage

skill lvl: 16/12
30 energy cost
8 projectile
66% Pierce Damage

per titanquest.wikia.com:
• This skill carry over many unusual damage factors and effects.

• This skill use Casting Rate rather than Attack Speed.

• Properties applied to Throwing Knife:

• armor, jewelery and artifact flat damage bonus

• armor and jewelery charms'/relics' effects

• any kind of percentage damage bonus from any source

• any on hit effect provided by armor, jewelery and artifact

• Properties NOT applied to Throwing Knife:

• any kind of flat weapon damage

• any kind of flat shield damage

•non-damage weapon properties

• non-damage shield properties

Many people think this is a bad skill now because of the 10% chance nerf. It's not. I have used this skill extensively and i can say with certainty that this is still a very good skill. Actually, it might be better now. Bleed and poison now scales with dex and throwing knife is probably the best skill to spread those DoTs. But the bigger reason is the cooldown now depends on the skill level rather than CDR. That means you won't get hostaged by CDR items anymore allowing you to get other necessary attributes like resists, life and mana steal, etc. Also, that opens up more knifethrower builds besides sorcerer and magician because you don't have to concentrate on int anymore. I know it's always been possible to get very high CDR without getting int but honestly, that is very gear dependant and would limit your item choices even more. Now it's not a problem anymore, heck legendary SB cuffs alone gives +3 all skills. I have even written in one of my guides how to be a full knifethrower as early as lvl 25. And because this carries weapon buffs like storm nimbus, earth enchantment, battle standard, rune weapon tree (except transmutation) etc, you can make this your main attack and have a powerful caster toon. Or if you want it to just be a utility skill, it's a very good CC because it carries envenom skill tree including nightshade and mandrake. Imagine an AoE CC with no cooldown. And while this skill doesn't benefit much from bonus from weapons, it triggers chance to proc skills from weapons like Study Prey from Mbuti's Advocate, Summon Ancestral Warriors from Key of Elysium and Summon Spriggling from Staff of the Chosen, and also non-weapons like Dvalin's Simulacrum. If the devs make the chance to pass through back to 100%, this would be overpowered and break the game.

mage sorcerer
Spoiler for Hiden:

this one was a take 2 i admit :)
Spoiler for Hiden:

rating: 5/5
« Last Edit: 05 March 2018, 10:04:05 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #1 on: 27 February 2018, 22:42:05 »
Lay Trap, Rapid Construction and Improved Firing Mechanism:

Lay Trap:
Drops a mechanical bolt trap that will trip when enemies draw near and rapidly fire out deadly bolts.

skill lvl: 1/16
12 seconds recharge
25 energy cost
1.0 meter radius
3 summon limit
Bolt Trap Attributes: Lifetime 30 seconds
57 Health
Bolt Trap Abilities:
Lay Trap
1 projectile
16-30 Piercing Damage

skill lvl: 16/16
12 seconds recharge
55 energy cost
1.0 meter radius
3 summon limit
Bolt Trap Attributes: Lifetime 30 seconds
342 Health
Bolt Trap Abilities:
Lay Trap
1 projectile
166-226 Piercing Damage

skill lvl: 20/16
12 seconds recharge
63 energy cost
1.0 meter radius
3 summon limit
Bolt Trap Attributes:
Lifetime 30 seconds
342 Health
Bolt Trap Abilities:
Lay Trap
1 projectile
166-226 Piercing Damage

I don't know if this is intentional or not but i even tested with an accomplished character and this is what appears. There is no change from 16/16 to 20/16 besides the added energy cost. I don't know if this is just a display bug or not. Me, i still keep it at 20/16 in the hopes that it's just a display bug. But honestly i have no idea if it gets any bonus or not.

Rapid Construction:
Expertise in assembling traps reduces the amount of time it takes to create a new trap after one has been set

skill lvl: 1/8
-1.0 second(s) recharge
-5% energy cost

skill lvl: 8/8
-8.0 second(s) recharge
-40% energy cost

skill lvl: 12/8
-12.0 second(s) recharge
-60% energy cost

max this with +4 from gear to get zero cooldown

Improved Firing Mechanism:
Modifications to the Bolt Trap increase the number of bolts fired per round.

skill lvl: 1/12
3 projectiles
10% chance to pass through enemies
+15% Pierce Damage

skill lvl: 12/12
6 projectiles
45% chance to pass through enemies
+50% Pierce Damage

skill lvl: 16/12
8 projectiles
65% chance to pass through enemies
+75% Pierce Damage

This is another invest or ignore skill tree. Either commit to it or don't get it at all. This has been greatly buffed in AE/R because traps are now considered pets meaning they now get benefits from auras and bonus to pets. But unlike any pets, they fire lots of projectiles so each bonus damage gets applied to each projectile. Also, since this skill tree is either go all in or not, this has no cooldown. So you could cast 3 traps at once and if the first one dies, you can cast another quickly. This also has low energy cost so summoning multiple traps isn't really a problem energy wise even if you don't add any in int or energy. If you let traps take agro first, they take some enemies' attention away from you. The whole skill tree costs a lot of skill points but in Ragnarok, skill points aren't really a problem. I think the skill that boosts this the best is battle standard. It makes them tanky and each projectile gets the physical damage bonus. Add in the absolute reduced resistances from triumph and suddenly, traps are killing machines. If you don't have auras that boost pets, scroll of stalwart alliance is a good alternative. Traps gain bonus health in epic and legendary difficulties.

trapper petmaster illusionist
Spoiler for Hiden:

rating: 4/5

If you find yourself confused of whether getting traps or knives, remember that both require +4 all skills so you can actually choose both. If you want only 1, choose knives if you want a more caster toon. Traps if you want to be more petmaster.

Envenom Weapon, Nightshade, Toxin Distillation and Mandrake:

Envenom Weapon:
Coats your weapon with deadly poison while activated.

skill lvl: 1/12
1 Active Energy Cost per Second
25 Poison Damage over 3 seconds
50 energy reserved

skill lvl: 12/12
2 Active Energy Cost per Second
230 Poison Damage over 3 seconds
50 energy reserved

skill lvl: 16/12
2 Active Energy Cost per Second
393 Poison Damage over 3 seconds
50 energy reserved

Nightshade:
Oils harvested from the deadly Nightshade plants give your Envenomed Weapons the ability to slow enemies.

skill lvl: 1/8
15% Poison Damage
10% Slowed for 5 seconds

skill lvl: 8/8
50% Poison Damage
39% Slowed for 5 seconds

skill lvl: 12/8
70% Poison Damage
50% Slowed for 5 seconds

Toxin Distillation:
Learn alchemical processes to distill natural toxins, increasing the potency and duration of all poison attacks.

skill lvl: 1/12
+10% Poison Damage with +12% Improved Duration

skill lvl: 12/12
+76% Poison Damage with +144% Improved Duration

skill lvl: 16/12
+100% Poison Damage with +200% Improved Duration

Mandrake:
Adds a chance for poison to cloud an enemy's mind, sending them into a state of confusion.

skill lvl: 1/8
1 Active Energy Cost per Second
15% Chance to Fumble Attacks for 3 seconds
6% Chance of 1.8 - 2.4 seconds of Confusion

skill lvl: 8/8
1 Active Energy Cost per Second
50% Chance to Fumble Attacks for 3 seconds
20% Chance of 1.8 - 5.0 seconds of Confusion

skill lvl: 12/8
1 Active Energy Cost per Second
70% Chance to Fumble Attacks for 3 seconds
28% Chance of 1.8 - 6.5 seconds of Confusion

Great CC skill especially when paired with throwing knife. Heh i don't want to sound biased but it's true. Nightshade and Mandrake makes your every attack a CC and when used with knives, it becomes AoE CC. Also great with Dual Wield and Warwind when playing an assassin. This is also great with thunder strike from Rune. I haven't tried a Warlock (Spirit/Rogue) yet but i imagine this is also great with Ternion. Mandrake has been nerfed in AE but it still procs quite often especially at ultimate max skill lvl. Nightshade has not been nerfed though and still provides a good slow CC. I recommend a skill distribution of 1/max/1/max but if you want to spread poison, you can max everything. The %poison damage from nightshade and toxin distillation affects poison gas bomb.

rating: 4/5

Poison Gas Bomb and Shrapnel:
Poison Gas Bomb:
Lobs a bomb that will burst on impact releasing a cloud of toxic gas that damages enemies and impairs their attacks.

skill lvl: 1/12
10 seconds recharge
45 energy cost
3.2 meter radius
131 poison damage over 4 seconds
33% slowed for 6 seconds

skill lvl: 12/12
10 seconds recharge
70 energy cost
5.4 meter radius
390 poison damage over 4 seconds
33% slowed for 6 seconds

skill lvl: 16/12
10 seconds recharge
100 energy cost
6.0 meter radius
566 poison damage over 4 seconds
33% slowed for 6 seconds

Shrapnel:
Packed with volatile liquid and metal scraps, the Poison Gas Bomb will explode violently on impact showering the area with deadly Shrapnel. Each fragment of shrapnel inflicts piercing damage to the enemies it hits

skill lvl: 1/12
5 energy cost
1.5 meter radius
9-11 projectiles
73 Bleeding Damage over 4 seconds
24 Piercing Damage

skill lvl: 12/12
16 energy cost
1.5 meter radius
9-11 projectiles
219 Bleeding Damage over 4 seconds
145 Piercing Damage

skill lvl: 16/12
20 energy cost
1.5 meter radius
9-11 projectiles
299 Bleeding Damage over 4 seconds
215 Piercing Damage

Nothing against this skill tree but i think it's a poor choice over throwing knife. It has been boosted in AE/R and you can lob it over enemies but it's still useless against undeads and constructs except for the slow. Well, most undeads and constructs are slow anyways. It's fun throwing PGBs though especially if you have a tank. Also, this triggers chance to proc skills like the ones i mentioned in throwing knife. But the cooldown scales with CDR which has been capped to 80% since AE. Throwing Knife cooldown isn't capped. There's a weird bug with this skill. If it hits your target, PGB instantly explodes and the fragments from Shrapnel instantly comes out. But if it hits the ground, there's a few seconds of delay before it explodes so the Shrapnel AoE is delayed also. I don't know if it's intentional or not but it is what it is.

notice the delay when it hits the ground. but also notice the summon procs
Spoiler for Hiden:

rating: 2/5

Flash Powder:
A magician's trick turned to more nefarious purposes, flash powder blinds adjacent enemies impairing their ability to hit with weapons and potentially disorienting them.

skill lvl: 1/8
15 seconds recharge
53 energy cost
3.8 meter radius
30% chance to fumble attacks for 8 seconds
39% chance of 3-8 seconds of confusion

skill lvl: 8/8
15 seconds recharge
74 energy cost
8 meter radius
65% chance to fumble attacks for 8 seconds
65% chance of 3-8 seconds of confusion

skill lvl: 12/8
15 seconds recharge
86 energy cost
10.4 meter radius
85% chance to fumble attacks for 8 seconds
85% chance of 3-8 seconds of confusion

Great panic skill. Use this if you don't want to get mobbed. Of course bosses can't be confused but this is great in xmax. The only drawback is the long cooldown

3/5

Disarm Traps:
Expertise with traps and magical devices allows the Rogue to easily disable them and avoid their damage.

skill lvl: 1/6
+20% Damage to Devices
+20% Damage to Constructs
+10% Less Damage from Devices
+10% Less Damage from Constructs

skill lvl: 6/6
+128% Damage to Devices
+128% Damage to Constructs
+54% Less Damage from Devices
+54% Less Damage from Constructs

skill lvl: 10/6
+240% Damage to Devices
+240% Damage to Constructs
+80% Less Damage from Devices
+80% Less Damage from Constructs

skill lvl: 5/6
+105% Damage to Devices
+105% Damage to Constructs
+46% Less Damage from Devices
+46% Less Damage from Constructs

rating: 2/5

Despite the low rating, i actually like this skill. I think this is the one skill from rogue that i would always put a point on no matter the build is. Since rogue benefits greatly from +4 all skills, this becomes a 1pt wonder. That's why i added skill lvl 5/6. 105% damage to devices and constructs and 46% less damage would be well worth your 1 skill point

Rogue seemingly lacks the ability to reduce enemy resistances but actually, knives are a good way of spreading reduced resistances. You just need to equip items that reduce resistances but it shouldn't come from a weapon otherwise knives wouldn't carry it. Some examples are monkey kings trickery, Polaris, the Frail, and the ever so hard to find Twisted Coil of the Parasite.

When i was reading the AE changelog a little more than a year ago, first thing that came to my mind was SB cuffs for rogue. It's obvious that rogue benefits greatly from +4 to all skills and legendary SB cuffs alone gives +3. Plus the new scaling of bleed and poison with dex ensures you won't waste the high dex requirement for SB cuffs. It's also quite easy to farm. There's no doubt you would benefit also from other bracers but SB cuffs would be a solid choice as well.
« Last Edit: 01 March 2018, 10:35:06 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #2 on: 28 February 2018, 13:55:40 »
Excellent work botebote77! When you said Rogue was one of your fav Masteries you weren't joking. ;D

Your videos make this Rogue Guide even more helpful. A few remarks:

- Maybe you could add that Throwing Knives also work with items giving a chance to deal "Health Reduction to Enemies in %", I remember Irma2 did a nice Diviner build with these:

Rings/Amulets of Smiting,

- Did you try buffing your traps with "Rune of Life" or "Energy Armor"? If yes, do you think it is worth it?


« Last Edit: 28 February 2018, 13:57:25 by CrocMagnum »

Offline legowarrior

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #3 on: 28 February 2018, 16:13:00 »
So far, I am having a blast with my trap throwing illusionist.  Wolves and traps deal most of the damage, coupled with Plague and Poison Gas Bomb for large crowds.
After reading your analysis, I am tempted to drop Poison Gas Bomb and replace it with Throw Knives.  What's holding me back is that I only have 4 or so points invested in Poison Gas Bombs, and maybe 6 or 7 in the poison line.  It doesn't seem like Knife Throwing is a worthy investment for a 48 level Illusionist. 

Maybe after I max out Plague, I'll take the points out of Gas Bomb and put it in knife throwing. 

Offline tholuneve

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #4 on: 01 March 2018, 03:10:36 »
Excellent work botebote77! When you said Rogue was one of your fav Masteries you weren't joking. ;D

Your videos make this Rogue Guide even more helpful. A few remarks:

- Maybe you could add that Throwing Knives also work with items giving a chance to deal "Health Reduction to Enemies in %", I remember Irma2 did a nice Diviner build with these:

Rings/Amulets of Smiting,

- Did you try buffing your traps with "Rune of Life" or "Energy Armor"? If yes, do you think it is worth it?
Back in TQIT, smiting knives Warlock is one of the two viable pure knive throwing build (the other one is cold knives Sorcerer).
In AE, due to some changes this build is no longer viable, especially the following one:
- Resistance for percantage life reduction on bosses can no longer be reduced. This change made all builds that use resistance reduction and % life reduction to kill bosses totally useless. It should still work on minion monsters, but for me if a build cannot kill bosses with its main damage source, it's not viable anyway.

Offline botebote77

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #5 on: 01 March 2018, 09:05:15 »
yep what tholuneve said.. also, it doesn't address the problem that is undeads

i don't have a trickster yet, i only made test characters before.. i haven't tried it but doesn't the playstyles of those skills seem contradictory? i mean you throw traps away from you and near the enemy.. and energy armor requires you to be near pets when you cast it.. the aura will stay with them after you run away but it still seems contradictory.. besides, traps aren't fragile pets.. they gain difficulty bonus buffs and also the +100% life to pets from gargantuan yeti quest.. rune of life gives vit and bleed res but traps are devices.. they don't need vit and bleed res.. the %str i don't know if it affects them but having to constantly cast rune of life on 3 pets that doesn't have an avatar feels tedious.

also, why haven't i heard of that song before? i was born in the wrong era

i also poured my heart into this. and when there was nothing left to pour, i poured my soul instead. and when there was nothing left of my soul, i poured my lungs, brain, esophagus, intestines, everything :))

legowarrior, i don't have throwing knife anymore on my illusionist but I'm also lacking 6 skill points from act 5 normal and epic. if you have extra skill points and have good casting speed, maybe you can try knives. i find plague, flash powder, regrowth and briar ward to be effective support skills. I'm using an allfather's ring of grace now (physical damage to pets), and assassin's black pearl pendant (got it from hydra).. it's still doing good in act 5 legendary
« Last Edit: 07 May 2018, 05:11:53 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #6 on: 01 March 2018, 13:52:24 »
...i also poured my heart into this. and when there was nothing left to pour, i poured my soul instead. and when there was nothing left of my soul, i poured my lungs, brain, esophagus, intestines, everything :))...

I’m fully convinced of that, I can clearly see you’ve put your whole heart into this, botebote77.  ;D

Also thanks tholuneve for his remark on "Heath Reduction Builds in AE", it totally makes sense when I think about it. ^^

...also, why haven't i heard of that song before? i was born in the wrong era...

Oh Man! You’ve ruined it (nearly)! ^^

When I posted that link, I little voice in my head told me "Blah! I bet there’s 75% Chance he never heard of that beautiful song!" Sigh ! I just hope you liked the song and enjoyed the talent of Gene Kelly and Judy Garland. ^-^

Ahem. The song in question: You Wonderful You! Gene Kelly (Youtube)
« Last Edit: 01 March 2018, 13:56:51 by CrocMagnum »

Offline legowarrior

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #7 on: 01 March 2018, 16:10:50 »
I am still in the second point I the fifth act, but I did find that the bandit early on in act 5 is an amazing place to farm. Between the bandits and the bandit Lord, I almost always grabbed either a blue item or the special bandit armor.   

Offline botebote77

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #8 on: 02 March 2018, 23:32:05 »
So far, I am having a blast with my trap throwing illusionist.  Wolves and traps deal most of the damage, coupled with Plague and Poison Gas Bomb for large crowds.
After reading your analysis, I am tempted to drop Poison Gas Bomb and replace it with Throw Knives.  What's holding me back is that I only have 4 or so points invested in Poison Gas Bombs, and maybe 6 or 7 in the poison line.  It doesn't seem like Knife Throwing is a worthy investment for a 48 level Illusionist. 

Maybe after I max out Plague, I'll take the points out of Gas Bomb and put it in knife throwing.
late reply but iirc when i was lvl 48, traps and wolves were enough for just about everything.. obviously it was still AE back then, no ragnarok.. do you not have ritualist ring yet (physical)? i encourage you to find 1.. it's easy to find in epic merchants.. then max strength of the pack.. iirc when i was lvl 48, my bow was almost useless except for bosses.. but even against bosses, traps and pets were enough, it just takes longer to kill.. also, can i ask what your stat distribution is? but whatever as long as you don't focus on energy i think you'll be fine
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Tauceti

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #9 on: 03 March 2018, 23:56:37 »
Great work Botebote, i appreciate in particular the way you rank the skills, videos as examples, and the skills stats at ultimate level  ;)

Concerning the skills Throwing Knife and Flurry of Knives, you say

Quote
  This skill carry over many unusual damage factors and effects.
(...)
any on hit effect provided by armor, jewelery and artifact
(...)
and while this skill doesn't benefit much from bonus from weapons, it triggers chance to proc skills from weapons like Study Prey from Mbuti's Advocate, Summon Ancestral Warriors from Key of Elysium and Summon Spriggling from Staff of the Chosen, and also non-weapons like Dvalin's Simulacrum

Therefore does it also trigger Runeword:Explode for a trickster ?


Offline botebote77

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #10 on: 04 March 2018, 02:22:09 »
thnx Tauceti

regarding your question, sadly no.. i tested it before with an accomplished character and no matter how many times i cast throwing knife, it never triggered runeword:explode.. if it did i would've created a trickster right then and there :) ..  what i found out though was magical charge and energy drain does affect throwing knife.. only eye test but i seem to kill faster with throwing knife when i activate rune weapon with maxed magical charge.. i also steal life and mana even though i had no life and mana steal from gear.. i can also kill constructs and undeads with throwing knife even though they should be highly resistant (or immune) to poison and bleed.. i even used defiler to take my test character to legendary and yep it can still kill undeads and constructs.. i can only think of magical charge as the reason
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline tholuneve

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #11 on: 04 March 2018, 03:39:18 »
Botebote is correct.
Runeword: explode is a special attack just like dual wield or shield passives. This attack is mutually exclusive with throw knifes.
Rune weapon effects are similar to onslaught. So as long as you have at least one charge of Rune Weapon, you gain full bonus of Magical Charge and Energy Drain. I'm not sure whether transmutation work on throwing knife and if yes how does it work.

Offline botebote77

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #12 on: 04 March 2018, 07:08:48 »
thnx for confirming.. as for transmutation, judging from the devs statement that it converts physical to elemental, and then the remaining is converted to pierce (depending on the weapon), i would assume that transmutation only converts physical.. and since throwing knife deals pierce and bleed, i assume it doesn't affect throwing knife.. but i lack proper testing on this one

but maybe there is a way to test.. per changelog 1.54, transmutation is always active now.. so maybe if you don't activate rune weapon, you can still deal elem damage to undeads and constructs.. i seem to remember that i can damage undeads and constructs with poison in normal.. can't remember with bleed.. hmm maybe the test should be done with envenom not active and also on legendary.. i don't know if I'll be able to test this though and frankly, i don't think it's necessary to test
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline maxwolfie

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #13 on: 04 May 2018, 15:18:16 »
Very useful, thank you.

Offline Cleglaw

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Re: A Comprehensive Analysis of Rogue Skills
« Reply #14 on: 04 May 2018, 19:01:37 »
A gripe I have against Throwing Knives is that they cannot be put on the LMB. It makes them awkward to use if you are using another skill which wants the RMB slot. I would use it on my Illusionist trapper if only they worked on the LMB.
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