Author Topic: 160 Farming Runs  (Read 5857 times)

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Offline botebote77

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160 Farming Runs
« on: 26 January 2018, 13:08:43 »
Inspired from some of those 100 runs or so posts i saw somewhere before, i decided to make my own. However, this one is different in that i decided to do 20 runs from 8 bosses instead of just 1 boss. The primary aim is to compare boss drops from old acts to new. The bosses i decided to farm are:
Act 1: Hydra
Act2:  Aktaios Telkine, Manticore
Act3: Typhon (I’m old school I still consider Olympus as part of act 3)
Act4: Secret Passage, Hades
Act5: Fafnir, Surtr
All in Legenday of course with exit to desktop after each 10 runs. No xmax because i die against 3 surtr sometimes :) and also because zeus is very irritating against typhon. I decided to list only arcane fomulas, blues, purples and some worth mentioning greens. So here are the results:

Hydra:
1st run: zero
2nd run: zero
3rd run: zero
4th run: arcane formula-effigy of the panther
5th run: mark or ares, black pearl ring, necklace of harmonia
6th run: Battlemage Circlet
7th run: zero
8th run: Rod of the Ancients
9th run: zero
10th run: arcane formula-tounge of flame
11th run: Golden Shield of Pelaron
12th run: Achilles Shield, arcane formula-talisman of the jade emperor, Naglfar, Divitiacus' Protective Weave
13th run: necklace of harmonia, Lykaion Malleus
14th run: Scale of the Black Dragon, Adept's Diadem
15th run: Apollo's Will, Warrior's Buskin, arcane formula-conqueror's mark
16th run: zero
17th run: Caduceus
18th run: Orpheus' Garland
19th run: arcane formula-effigy of the panther
20th run: zero

Manticore:
1st run: zero
2nd run: zero
3rd run: zero
4th run: Achilles Shield, Bloodthirst the Glutton
5th run: Crest of Taurus, Archmage’s Mantle, Umbral Crown, Soul Quencher, arcane formula-effigy of the panther
6th run: Athena’s Mirrored Shield, Spear of Renenutet
7th run: Shiva’s Companion
8th run: Hallowed Babylonian Helm of Erudion
9th run: zero
10th run: zero
11th run: zero
12th run: zero
13th run: Hades Aspis, arcane formula-elemental rage
14th run: zero
15th run: zero
16th run: zero
17th run: zero
18th run: zero
19th run: Spear of Renenutet
20th run: Myrmidon’s Pendant

Aktaios Telkine:
1st run: arcane formula-morpheus dreamweb
2nd run: zero
3rd run: zero
4th run: Battlemage Robe
5th run: Apophis Serpent
6th run: arcane formula-silver heart
7th run: zero
8th run: zero
9th run: zero
10th run: arcane formula-talisman of the jade emperor, Bracelets of Aman’Da (grants skill spellbreaker oh wow)
11th run: Mark of Ares
12th run: Umbral Crown
13th run: zero
14th run: zero
15th run: Amazonian Spear
16th run: Shavo’s Relic
17th run: Eye of Flame, arcane formula-talisman of the jade emperor
18th run: arcane formula-conqueror’s mark
19th run: Orpheus Garland
20th run: Alexander’s Bracer, Nebuchadnezzar’s Greaves
*no archmages clasp.. still, this is one of your best bets for it along with Alastor and Secret Passage

Typhon:
1st run: Kuan Ti's Sorrow, Eye of Flame
2nd run: zero
3rd run: Hera’s Shield
4th run: arcane formula-sigil of bast
5th run:  Prometheus’ Gift, arcane formula-morpheus dreamweb, Adept’s Diadem
6th run: zero
7th run: zero
8th run: arcane formula-symbol of the polymath
9th run: zero
10th run: Hera’s Shield
11th run: zero
12th run: Alexander’s Pelta, Chiron’s Loop
13th run: Qin Warbow
14th run: zero
15th run: zero
16th run: Unyielding Shackles of Tartarus
17th run: zero but I got 1 Axe of Tereus from minotaur mobs on the way to Typhon
18th run: Artemis Silver Bow
19th run: Caduceus, arcane formula-glorybringer
20th run: arcane formula-maiden’s kiss

Hades:
1st run: arcane formula-elemental rage
2nd run: Battlemage Bracers
3rd run: ordu thumb ring
4th run: Spectral Defender
5th run: Priam’s Gate
6th run: zero
7th run: Myrmidon’s Pendant
8th run: Necklace of Harmonia, Eye of Reveries
9th run: zero
10th run: Battlemage Bracers, Bronze Heart of Talos
11th run: Protean Armor
12th run: zero
13th run: Gera’s Walking Stick
14th run: Abyssal Shield
15th run: zero
16th run: arcane formula-maiden’s kiss
17th run: Diomede’s Buskin
18th run: Alexander’s Greaves, Legionnaire’s Gauntlets
19th run: Rod of the Ancients, arcane formula-tyrants fist
20th run: zero
Not one overlord

Secret Passage:
(I decided to not list those santas, detectives you know what)
1st run: zero
2nd run: zero
3rd run: Permafrost Bracers, arcane formula-thot’s glory
4th run: Shavo’s Relic, arcane formula-Eye of Ra, Impenetrable Brocade Wraps of the Pegasus
5th run: Polydegmon
6th run: Hallowed Wreath of Grace
7th run: Prophecy
8th run: zero
9th run: Silvercharm of Cassandra, Plouton’s Cornucopia, arcane formula-Marduk’s Tablet of Destiny
10th run: Wall of the Damned, Bracers of the Nehemean Lion, Adept’s Diadem
11th run: Heartsong Armlets
12th run: Tracker’s Hood wew
13th run: zero
14th run: Legguards of the Flameborn wew
15th run: zero
16th run: zero
17th run: zero
18th run: zero
19th run: Plouton’s Cornucopia, Kael’s Visage
20th run: arburing, arcane formula-Glorybringer

Fafnir:
1st run: Impenetrable Aesir Winding of the Pegasus just looks bad
2nd run: zero
3rd run: zero
4th run: arcane formula-Apples of Idun
5th run: zero
6th run: zero
7th run: zero
8th run: zero
9th run: zero
10th run: zero
11th run: Eye of Reveries
12th run: zero
13th run: zero
14th run: zero
15th run: zero
16th run: zero
17th run: zero
18th run: still zero
19th run: trash
20th run: garbage
And why no andvaranaut this time?

Surtr:
1st run: zero
2nd run: Arcane formula-Gambanteinn, Hesione's Golden Veil
3rd run: zero
4th run: Deimos
5th run: zero
6th run: zero
7th run: plouton's crown
8th run: zero
9th run: zero
10th run: zero
11th run: zero
12th run: zero
13th run: zero
14th run: archmage's mantle
15th run: zero
16th run: zero
17th run: band of souls
18th run: zero
19th run: zero
20th run: arcane formula-ikon of zeus, Arcane formula-Gambanteinn

act 5 boss drops terrible? lol

i know 20 runs/boss is only a small sample size but after doing all these runs, there's no way i'm doing more. Farming just isn't my thing anymore. Took me about 9 hours in the span of 3 days including writing and transferring items to vault

characters used: Sorcerer, Prophet
« Last Edit: 26 January 2018, 13:28:41 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Pazuzu

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #1 on: 26 January 2018, 17:41:41 »
bracelet of amanda. xD!

Interesting finds btw!
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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #2 on: 26 January 2018, 19:56:48 »
Yhea, ACT5 drops arent good as the other acts, maybe it was rng bad luck ?
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Offline Hector

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #3 on: 27 January 2018, 04:07:02 »
I'm not sure but I think this topic justifies some of my own frustrations with epic/legendary drops in AE - Ragnarok.. I remember catching a legendary item here and there in Act I Epic almost with any char that I made back in the days of TQIT.. Regardless of the RNG factor, this was the case..I'm also a non-farmer type player I must say..

But in AE with the latest patch, weeks of playthroughs with two different chars has yielded me just one and I mean only one legendary drop so far.. A single Chiron's loop..!!

Yes, apparently the green item and MI drop frequency has been ridiculously increased for this version of the game but this is not an excuse for the new terrible drop rates for epic and legendary items.. I'm playing the game as if there are no unique gear and its extremely discouraging and annoying.. I'm really sick and tired of shopping for some green substitutes for the lesser greens on my char..

At this point, it feels like the game just telling me: Pssst, go ahead and download the community vault project file..then open your vault and relieve yourself from this nonsense..

Offline botebote77

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #4 on: 27 January 2018, 04:31:06 »
actually, act 1-4 boss drops seem unchanged.. it's just that act 5 boss drops seem terrible.. but i have a feeling regular mobs in act 5 drop good items.. and maybe those ancient of the sun/moon lake/sky etc bosses.. lol got it mixed up ;D
« Last Edit: 27 January 2018, 04:51:00 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #5 on: 27 January 2018, 18:27:15 »
https://steamcommunity.com/app/475150/discussions/0/1620599015875169335/

There are some other topics like this one with statistical infos as proofs..

What you said maybe true on paper but there is definitely a serious reduction in epic and legendary drops in EPIC difficulty.. Be it from boss chests or regular mobs, doesn't matter.. All I get is an ocean of yellows and useless greens (even when periodically restarting the game)..

Oh, I forgot to mention the drop rates for thrown weapons.. like the person states in the above topic, I have dozens of Neit's Wills and Munnin's Grasps and this is simply a bad design..

Lastly, this is a specific post from this discussion which describes the issue in the best way (https://steamcommunity.com/app/475150/discussions/0/2549465882917580060/);

Your description has nothing to do with RNG. You are talking about A5 drop and since you mentioned Hades I assume you also farmed A5 bosses several times.
Thanks to all items mod (and other people who digged into database), we can conclude that the majority of epic/legendary items are prevented from drop by devs for unknown reasons. Currently you can only drop new thrown weapon and new formula. For other epic/legendary items, since most epic/legendary items in this game tends to drop in one or two specific act bosses in a certain difficulty, it is easy to conclude from boss farming experience that currently you can only find new A1 items. All A5 bosses, according to previous experience, should drop mostly A5 items and some A4 items. And since these A5 items are prevented from drop, A5 bosses actually result in only drop A4 items, and at a reletively low drop rate. That explains your experience, and it has nothing to do with RNG. 
« Last Edit: 27 January 2018, 19:20:12 by Hector »

Offline Malgardian

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #6 on: 27 January 2018, 20:51:56 »
I don't know if there ever really was an abundance of uniques in epic to begin with. Epic was always just what you ran through to get to Legendary and farm there.

Quote
Thanks to all items mod (and other people who digged into database), we can conclude that the majority of epic/legendary items are prevented from drop by devs for unknown reasons
And yet, that guy doesn't into more detail and I call bullshit on "majority of epic/legendary items are prevented from dropping" as I know of only 4-5 items that currently do not drop. The rest have their drop locations and chance listed on tq-db.net
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Offline Hector

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #7 on: 27 January 2018, 21:24:47 »
Then how would you explain ridiculous amounts of legendary thrown weapon drops in EPIC difficulty?.. How come I never even get a Teucer's Warbow in the first part of Epic Act I when I used to get dozens of it and alike in TQIT even without farming for a single time?

No Adroit Loops.. no Ring of the Shangs.. Nothing... this is not about expecting an abundance of legendaries in Epic difficulty.. Even the epic items are nowhere to be seen.. Ok maybe the exception of some Druid's staffs here and there which I have no idea why it drops for the 10th time persistently..

They're simply introducing their new items and in exchange for that, old items' drop rates were apparently and obviously reduced to almost zero.. I'm not the only one who notices this weirdness and it doesn't matter what any database site lists what.. Real experience vs paper info.. And I believe what people experience over some numbers on a sheet..
« Last Edit: 27 January 2018, 21:32:26 by Hector »

Offline botebote77

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #8 on: 27 January 2018, 22:02:54 »
to be honest, if you get a teucer's warbow in epic act 1, you are extremely lucky.. epic doesn't drop many purple items to begin with.. in ragnarok, it seems to drop more purples now although the majority is throwing weapons.. i remember when we started playing AE, i was playing with my nephew and he made a challenge: first one to get purple item.. the first one we got was in epic act 3.. that paper vs experience thing, i think i got some experience under my belt.. i admit i don't like to farm anymore but also the reason why I'm against duplicating items, changing completion bonus, accepting hand me down gifts, using shopMI and such is because i still think farming is the right way to get desired items.. those 160 runs actually is nothing.. i just like to make a mini data.. most of those i already have.. I've done more runs in Gorgon sisters alone in epic, what more in legendary and other bosses.. I've farmed Hades 60x before just for 1 overlord.. and after that i farmed him again several more times.. I've farmed Typhon hundreds of times.. secret passage i can't even count
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Malgardian

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #9 on: 28 January 2018, 13:43:23 »
@Hector: Have you played without the RNGfix before the AE version? That might explain why you have these expectations (getting dozens of one item). The old RNGfix has since been incorporated into the AE version, so the RNG should be fine.

And no offense, but I'd trust raw data (i.e. numbers on a sheet) over fallible human memory and experience every day.
Quote
They're simply introducing their new items and in exchange for that, old items' drop rates were apparently and obviously reduced to almost zero..
Which is a conjecture on your part without any proof other than that some other people feel the same way.

Disclaimer: I do not call you stupid or anything nor do I make a claim that *obviously* everything's fine with the droprates. I just call for some moderation as the RNG discussions in this game are as old as the game itself and only once have they had any ground in reality (which was fixed in the RNGfix). In that vein: Document what you find with this character in epic, run another character through epic, farm a bit, repeat. Only with enough data can you make a case that something's off about the drop rates.

I hope this gets my perspective across and again: No offense meant!
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Offline MedeaFleecestealer

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #10 on: 28 January 2018, 17:05:29 »
I don't know if there ever really was an abundance of uniques in epic to begin with. Epic was always just what you ran through to get to Legendary and farm there.

Quote
Thanks to all items mod (and other people who digged into database), we can conclude that the majority of epic/legendary items are prevented from drop by devs for unknown reasons
And yet, that guy doesn't into more detail and I call bullshit on "majority of epic/legendary items are prevented from dropping" as I know of only 4-5 items that currently do not drop. The rest have their drop locations and chance listed on tq-db.net

Currently Epic has 467 Uniques, Legendary only 326.

There are some peculiarities with the new Uniques though.  Going through the updated TQCollector and all of them are found in either Northlands or Greece.  There are no other Acts where they can appear.  It seems rather strange that some obviously Northlands named items would be found so far south.  So either the devs have been lazy in not spreading them out more or there's something wrong with the drop locations.

Of items that don't seem to drop, they both seem to be throwing weapons: Electrum Sting an Epic Unique, and for Legendary: Hati.

Offline Malgardian

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #11 on: 28 January 2018, 18:31:00 »
Those uniques "bleed" over into the next difficulty, however. Something that drops in Epic act5 also drops in Legendary act1. This behaviour was also present for other items in pre-Ragnarök AE and even IT.

Also, Epic/Legendary in TQCollector basically means whether the item in question is blue or purple.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2018, 18:32:50 by Malgardian »
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Offline botebote77

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #12 on: 28 January 2018, 23:20:25 »
in any event, my thread was meant to be a mini data aimed at helping still not pro players so they'll have an idea of what they might find by farming those bosses.. not to start an argument :-\

i still advice to not farm so much in epic because hydra drops far better items and is arguably easier.. this has an exception if you're looking for specific items that drop better in epic, in which case tq-db would be your best bet

gear won't save you from everything though.. good tactic is still better than good gear.. to quote what i read in another forum: "what you can't counter with gear, you can counter with play"
« Last Edit: 28 January 2018, 23:24:38 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #13 on: 29 January 2018, 04:24:32 »
I have no idea why my opinions provoked this kind of reaction.. like you say botebote, I'm just one of the "still not pro" players unlike Malgardian who has definitely much more techical knowledge about the game.. But for some unknown reason, he behaves like he has the right to insult someone who only presents his opinions about a game by concealing his harsh words with politeness.. "I'm not calling you stupid but this and that" means you're calling that person stupid.. it is simple as that and it is a type of a disguised offense in my book no matter how much you glamorize your words.. 

In any case, I want you to know there is absolutely no problem for me and I sincerely don't want to drag this argument out.. Seems like it will be better if I keep my not pro opinions to myself from now on.. I'm truly sorry for starting this discussion even that was never my intention at all botebote.. honestly...

Edit: I've realized I was wrong and took Malgardian's words/intentions in the wrong way.. I'm sorry for my clouded judgement.. Anyway, everything is fine now  :)

Yes Malgardian, I did play without the RNG fix in the past.. though I remember I quickly began to use it once I heard about the issue in the old forums..

To my surprise, today I have found a couple of legendaries in Act IV.. they appeared one after another and I was shocked and didn't want to lose that seed but had to shut down after a while because it felt like that seed changed during the course of the game (not just for legendaries but greens as well)..

Is it possible? I sometimes check inventories of merchants from town to town and they seem to store at least 3-4 greens in their vault for half an hour, then suddenly shift into yellow fetish guys and monster drops are changing in the same periods as well..

All of the legendaries dropped from the monsters BTW.. majestic chests are always shitty including the boss chests.. RNG factor for monster drop and chest drop (and even maybe merchant's stores) are separately calculated in playthroughs maybe? I mean, If I see quality items in shops, should I trust drop rates for monsters in that season of play or are they not connected through RNG? 
« Last Edit: 29 January 2018, 21:36:52 by Hector »

Offline Malgardian

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Re: 160 Farming Runs
« Reply #14 on: 05 February 2018, 23:51:15 »
All good  ;)

Quote
To my surprise, today I have found a couple of legendaries in Act IV.. they appeared one after another and I was shocked and didn't want to lose that seed but had to shut down after a while because it felt like that seed changed during the course of the game (not just for legendaries but greens as well)..

Well, that's RNG for you, sometimes you only find pennies on the street, sometimes you win the lottery :)

Quote
Is it possible? I sometimes check inventories of merchants from town to town and they seem to store at least 3-4 greens in their vault for half an hour, then suddenly shift into yellow fetish guys and monster drops are changing in the same periods as well..

What is possible is that the wares of the merchants change after some amount of ingame time. That way you can run from merchant to merchant and "farm" them. I don't know about a connection between that and monster drops, however. Doubtful in my opinion.

Quote
I mean, If I see quality items in shops, should I trust drop rates for monsters in that season of play or are they not connected through RNG?

What I read way back in the old forums was that the game got its initial RNG seed from the OS's system time during startup of the game and used that seed to calculate all others. So it might be related, but I have no idea how or to what degree.

If you're curious here are some old threads (or what's left of them, f*** iEntry!):
http://web.archive.org/web/20160813051931/http://www.titanquest.net/tq-forum/threads/29399-Good-seeds-bad-seeds-mystery-seeds/page14
http://web.archive.org/web/20160813051931/http://www.titanquest.net:80/tq-forum/threads/34276-REL-Random-Number-Generator-MOD (this one actually had some dev replies in it, one confirming the issue and the other listing specific times you could set your computer clock to to get crazy results in game :D -- unfortunately it seems like archive.org didn't get those :()
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