Author Topic: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder  (Read 2033 times)

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Offline botebote77

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Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« on: 25 January 2018, 11:21:54 »
Foreword: This is just theorycraft and not an actual character. I actually wrote this like a month ago but forgot about it and only remembered when I was reading Laionidas thread
This is a variation of the dual wield Thane (storm/warfare) icesharder. For those who do not know yet, it utilizes 2 persephone's caress to boost ice shard (2x +100% cold and frostburn damage)


What I'm thinking is Thunderer (rune/storm) also allows dual wielding through reckless offense but it also has access to runeword:feather making it possible to concentrate on int and not sacrifice too many points on str. An iceshard thane has the potential to be a tanky mage but an iceshard thunderer has the potential to deal lots more DPS. Thunderer actually has some protection in energy armor but lots of -%energy cost would be needed like incarnation of golden fleece (-30% energy cost). Pelaron has -20% but it’s a shield and it defeats the purpose of this build so it’s out :)

Rune of life gives added vit resist and sacred rage can maybe be useful for a glass cannon like this.

Rune also have rune weapon which can boost DPS of iceshards to maybe epic proportions. I just don’t know if the time to charge up the skill is worth it. Other rune skills like runic mines and menhirs, I don’t know yet if needed. But seal of fate I think can be a good boss killer especially when paired with squall and eye of the storm

The skills I would recommend for storm would be squall(max), heart of frost(max), eye of the storm(max), spellbreaker(at least 1 on each), energy armor(at least 1 on each), storm surge(1 pt), and of course ice shards(max).

I think the best way to farm Persephone’s Caress is by doing Minotaur runs because he wields two axes but I believe I got 1 from secret passage before. If you already have 1 you can simply duplicate it in your tqvault if you’re open to that (I’m not). Dvalin’s Simulacrum bug has been fixed in later versions iirc. But I encountered a hero boss doppelganger somewhere in mimer’s maze before. I’m not sure if it has a chance to drop your own items but I believe so.

Early assessment indicates that this is a classic glass cannon focusing on DPS with little regard to defense (could be fun then)

I can’t make a proper titancalc link because I haven’t played this yet so I don’t know how many points to put in rune weapon for example (if any) or max or only 1 point on reckless offense.

When Esdese-sama is finally laying waste to enemies in legendary, perhaps a better info would come :)
« Last Edit: 25 January 2018, 11:26:35 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Laionidas

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #1 on: 26 January 2018, 10:55:01 »
Early assessment indicates that this is a classic glass cannon focusing on DPS with little regard to defense (could be fun then)

More like an ice cannon, huehuehue,..

I agree though, these builds are all about offense. That said, Ice Shards freeze, there's Storm Surge, Runic Mines and Freezing Blast combined should provide good CC, and Rune mastery has a lot of incoming damage debuffs incorporated in some of its offensive skilltree branches. So, you won't be able to actually soak up any damage, but capabilities to avoid having to do so are there allright.

I'd still like that link to the original Thane sharder if you have it.

Even so, a Thunderer seems to be a lot more potent in this configuration. The only thing I'm worried about going for 2X Persephone's Carress, is the massive Str. requirement on them. Even with -%requirement and some points in Str., you'd still have a long way to go, and investing more in Str. obviously reduces the impact of your shards and other skills. The 2X +100% bonus from that setup might not weigh up against what you're losing. This is even more so a problem on a Thunderer, than on a Thane, since a Thunderer starts out with a measly 82 Str., from its masteries, whereas a Thane has 114, which isn't much either, but still noticably more.

By the way, it will take some time before Esdese-sama reaches legendary, since I've purposely delayed buying Ragnarok. I have a few characters I want to get through 'vanilla' AE legendary first, but it seems Esdese-same can only be conceived in Ragnarok.
« Last Edit: 26 January 2018, 11:27:47 by Laionidas »

Offline botebote77

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #2 on: 26 January 2018, 12:35:50 »
don't have a link but i saw it somewhere.. never tried it but a caster warfare has the potential to be a tanky mage with permanent battle standard (70%+ CDR).. you need ragnarok to be able to choose rune but storm alone is enough to beat normal

edit: i encourage you to buy ragnarok though because if you beat AE legendary then jump to ragnarok, you might be too bored to play act 5 normal and epic.. you'll miss 6 bonus skill points (that's what happened to my characters pre-ragnarok
« Last Edit: 26 January 2018, 12:42:13 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Laionidas

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #3 on: 26 January 2018, 14:54:15 »
if you beat AE legendary then jump to ragnarok, you might be too bored to play act 5 normal and epic.. you'll miss 6 bonus skill points (that's what happened to my characters pre-ragnarok

Can't you just blaze thorugh Act V normal (and epic) then, once you're in Act I or Act II legendary?

The thing is I always get discouraged somewhere at the end of normal, so I'd like to skip normal as much as possible.

Offline Hector

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #4 on: 02 February 2018, 22:29:32 »
If you're fine with, you can just use Tqdefiler after you beat Normal hades without entering the portal and enable epic difficulty, thus automatically skipping Act V.. This is what I do in the end of normal difficulty..

Offline botebote77

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #5 on: 23 June 2018, 03:39:15 »
finally i'm switching to this playstyle probably full time and can now add a few things
i'm still in epic (haven't played this in quite a while) but i'm sure damage will still be good..
the question is survivability but i've seen clips where menhir wall still holds in legendary..
so probably it's just a matter of me using it well (which will come in time)



it's now a dual wield icesharder/lightning bolt.. both maxed including heart of frost and static charge..
about -70% energy cost (seal of the high priest, Lykaion Malleus, volva's boots)..
still not fully optimized but for epic, it's more than enough..





rune weapon and thunder strike, arguably the 2 best skills of rune, can kiss my ass  ;D
range is very short.. i just finished killing 3 Cerberus by staying at the gate.. something i wouldnt be able to do with throwing weapons

i have svalinn (req lvl 66)and am still open to wearing it but if it means sacrificing the coolness factor, then nah i'm staying with Persephones and Lykaion Malleus  ;D

i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #6 on: 23 June 2018, 09:37:56 »
went all the way to Hades and Dactyl did not spawn.. so i figured the most logical thing to do was to save and exit and reload until Dactyl decides to appear.. on the 3rd try he decides to appear and he was kind enough to follow me to the door where i can pass but he can't.. i used to do that back in TQIT but i can't remember how i do that because in AE/R, i can't seem to do that.. he won't follow me to the door.. this time he did.. well, once he does that it becomes easy picking because i can hit him but he can't hit me.. i tried to do it again to see if ice shard can trigger that (Dactyl follow me to the door) but for the next 10+ tries he just wouldn't spawn.. I'll try it again some other day

i wasn't even able to cast spell breaker tsk this is my curse for not playing storm for a long time
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #7 on: 29 June 2018, 16:12:45 »
this is turning out to be a fun character that this is the only character i play at the moment

few things i can add.. you have to support ice shard with something.. i use lightning bolt.. maybe rune weapon and thunder strike are ok but i prefer to be far out of reach so i favor lightning bolt.. there are some monsters that lightning bolt noticeably does better damage than ice shard.. some of the obvious ones:

water nymphs - ice shard still damages them but it takes very long time to kill them with just ice shards.. they die quickly from lightning bolt

jimmy from primrose passage - projectiles are useless against him but one-shot from lighting bolt killed him (epic difficulty)

frost giants - ice shards are useless against them.. i don't even think they have cold resist because even if i cast squall, ice shard remains useless against them.. i think they have very very high cold absorption.. i use squall + spell breaker + lightning bolt against these mobs.. spell breaker is effective against them

not related to ice shard.. yggdrasil area was a walk in the park.. with 80% lightning and cold res, coupled with energy shield, i never worried about the thorns.. it was a breeze

but that boss giant that uses ice spells damn.. in xmax, that boss is really annoying and difficult.. reduced freeze duration is one of my most often ignored resists but against that boss(es), it's a must.. died again against that **** because i have zero reduced freeze duration.. i knew i should've used my unshackled boots but it's too inconvenient to exit the game, open tqvault and reload game just for that

@Laionidas  @Hector that monster magically passing through menhir wall happens to me if i cast menhir wall at the location a monster occupies.. but it's no big deal because in my case, even if they phase through, they still attack menhir wall.. and it's just 1 or 2 monsters not whole mob.
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #8 on: 29 June 2018, 17:48:25 »
Yeah I noticed that too.. I mean the monsters phasing through but still focusing on the wall.. but if you don't finish them immediately, or even worse, if the ones phasing through are something tough and ranged, they will make you lose time and while you trying any other CC or retreating or simply trying to finish it, the other ones behind the wall will have already taken care of it and then it is back to the beginning again..

I think what I'm trying to say is, it breaks the flow of smooth progression.. may not be a big deal, but it forces me to question the reasoning of the makers of this skill.. I mean why still not patch it??

 

Offline Laionidas

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #9 on: 29 June 2018, 23:59:15 »
I'm with @Hector on this one. It's workable as a CC, but unrreliable in its role, resulting in it dropping significantly lower on my 'must have skills/skills worth the investment' list. When I cast a CC spell, it's because I am in need of a certain effect. Having a good chance that the skill's intended effect does not work as it should, is not acceptable. Also, as I said before, even if it's only one or two mobs phasing through, if they're Jotun, which come in packs of only three to begin with, it's kind of a bad deal.

Something else alltogether: I just found out the other day that Guardian Stones is not a true synergy of Menhir Wall, but rather a separate skill,.. I feel so stupid for not noticing before! It actually makes both skills even worse in my opinion, though it does leave the option to get Menhir Wall, while ignoring Guardian Stones. I think this way I can get both Menhir Wall as well as Seal of Fate + Aftershock on my Stonespeaker. Menhir Wall is still not what it should be, but on the positive side, you do get a fully maxed individual skill at 10 points instead of 22. That's a big difference.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #10 on: 30 June 2018, 01:31:40 »
the jotuns die quickly from ice shard in my case..
the jotuns are weird.. when i was still not used to them i found a pack of them to be difficult.. they cannot be petrified or stunned but they can be mind controlled.. those are some of the CCs i tried against them, haven't tried freeze yet.. they have like 100% reduced entrapment duration.. monster lure works against them but many of them pass through monster lure (a bit weird).. they cast that rock skill thingy which can be dangerous especially if you fight a mob of them at once.

but just recently, i found out that that's also their weakness.. they like to cast it so much that if you fight a few of them at a time, you can easily see the animation.. you can easily predict when they will cast it so you can easily dodge it..

tldr: if you learn their movements, they are easy to kite

ps: i just got the name of that giant ice boss: thrym.. in xmax, that's difficult.. i felt like  playing my haruspex after reading the other thread.. it was on legendary but i was near the area.. i had 58% reduced freeze duration on this char so i didn't die

edit: and interestingly, the name of the ice rock thingy that he casts, is also ice shard
« Last Edit: 30 June 2018, 02:05:19 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #11 on: 30 June 2018, 12:01:47 »
my assumption that fire elementals would be weak against cold and frostburn is correct.. i just steamrolled the whole of muspelheim, lands end, including surtr.. even black elves die quickly.. by now I'm used to fighting 3 loki so not much of a problem.. 3 loki is actually one of my most favorite boss fights so i spent a ton of 3 loki battles on legendary with my other characters.. 3 surtr were no match for ice shards.. just epic but at least I've confirmed their weakness

now i can finally start full optimization of this character.. I've been wanting to see how i would optimize this character that's why i was rushing this.. it's always been my practice not to fully optimize until legendary

there is a way to use menhir wall even if you can't cast it between you and mobs.. hard to say in words but it's taking advantage of the fact that you can pass through menhir walls but monsters can't.. I'm always using that trick when mobs are chasing me.

there are quite a ton of mobs in end of act 5 where spell breaker is useful not only for skill disruption and draining mana but also for dealing damage.. frost giants.. phantasms in mimer's maze (those that cast spell breaker when they die).. crystal golems, when they turn to stone, they reflect damage, spell breaker is useful when they do that.
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: Ragnarok Version of the Dual Wield Icesharder
« Reply #12 on: 01 July 2018, 13:40:14 »
i used the legendary craftsmanship reward on both normal and epic.. both on the same item.. and both affix useless lolz.. here's why.. i just noticed my Persephone's Caress has 85% cold damage and 105% frostburn damage.. I'm not content with the 85% cold damage.. cold damage should be higher than frostburn damage.. so in the hopes of getting a better roll, i used the legendary craftsmanship on normal.. the result was 85% cold damage and 92% frostburn damage.. what? it got worse.. affix was lithe of something.. lithe is reduced requirements, something i don't need on this character.. well i knew the affix i will get is probably useless anyway because I'm trying to enchant a weapon and I'm a caster.. so i used the epic legendary craftsmanship on the weapon again to get a better roll.. the result: 105% cold damage and 85% frostburn damage.. ahh that one i can accept.. affix was lithe(again) of the siren.. both useless but i only want a better roll anyway.. legendary craftsmanship for me as a self rule is once i used it on an item, it's for that character alone and should not be given to another character.. I'm probably the only one with that self rule but it doesn't matter anyway because i don't want to use that reward when I'm optimizing

this was hard to optimize because i wanted to get a very high energy cost reduction without sacrificing resists, +4 all skills and recharge.. and i really wanted to use Persephone's and Lykaion Malleus just because i think it's cool used together.. still managed to get a setup I'm contented thanks to green items, charms, and relics.. good thing i still have 1 more +2 erebus.. i have extra erebus but the others are not +2

77% recharge
+4 all skills
-79% energy cost reduction
with respectable resists both primary and secondary.. except bleed but i got that covered with the secondary slot

the reason i wanted a very high energy cost reduction, aside from ice shard, is because i don't trust menhir wall alone as a means of survivability.. so i figured maybe if i can recast energy armor almost at will and very quickly without needing to switch to secondary.. together with menhir wall maybe that does the job.. especially that my DA is a puny 280 and HP about 3600
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

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