Author Topic: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB  (Read 421 times)

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Offline ConradTheMad

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TQ Database lists "of the Gods" as chest only, and "of the Mammoth" as helm & chest only.  However I know there are exceptions, and this seems to common knowledge.

Personal anecdotal evidence in my possession:

- Resistant Bandit Helm of the Gods
- Serpent Arm Guards of the Gods
- Veterans Eldjotun Bracers of the Mammoth

Q1: Is there a comprehensive list somewhere which includes all possible affixes by Act? I have searched & come up empty. 

Q2: While I'm here, I have never seen a monster infrequent with class buff attributes. Eg. Sentinel's Blacksteel Bulwark. Is this possible, or do MI's have a limited/different affix pool?  Weirdly, what I do have is a Blacksteel Bulwark of Devouring. No, that's not an error. I have an MI shield with stats exactly like the Devouring suffix.

I appreciate any help. Thanks.

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Offline soa

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #1 on: 04 March 2020, 20:15:34 »
« Last Rated on: 05 March 2020, 16:40:00 »
Ragnarok monster armor pieces (not common ones) are bugged, and can have torso affixes on every armor type.
Same for Atlantis.
(actually it's either a bug or poor design).
I think TQDB doesn't take that into account, it gives a general list for common items.

Q1 : there's no better public list to my knowledge.
Q2 : Ragnarok MI shields are bugged and have axe affixes instead of shield ones. In general, shields can have a Defense or Rune mastery prefix (+1 or +2).
But only act 4 or 5 shields (not monster shields in act 5 because bug above) can have a +X to Rune prefix. There are no act 5 affix tables, it reuses act 4 tables, so it's the same for A4-A5, and they didn't update the old affix tables for acts 1-3.

I already reported these bugs into Redmine (to me they are bugs ; Atlantis item database even says the items are "mass generated", like they rushed this stuff 2 days before publishing the game).
« Last Edit: 04 March 2020, 20:38:38 by soa »

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Offline ConradTheMad

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #2 on: 07 March 2020, 18:49:38 »
Ragnarok monster armor pieces (not common ones) are bugged, and can have torso affixes on every armor type.
Same for Atlantis.

Q2 : Ragnarok MI shields are bugged and have axe affixes instead of shield ones. In general, shields can have a Defense or Rune mastery prefix (+1 or +2).
But only act 4 or 5 shields (not monster shields in act 5 because bug above) can have a +X to Rune prefix. There are no act 5 affix tables, it reuses act 4 tables, so it's the same for A4-A5, and they didn't update the old affix tables for acts 1-3.

I appreciate your help a great deal, soa. Perhaps you can clarify a few additional questions resulting from your help.

I am certain I have seen Warlord's & Runesage's Axes. TQ Database confirms this. Also, does the monster dropped non chest armor having Chest affixes mean that they use the Chest tables only?

Q1: Isn't it possible then for Act 5 monster shields to have +2 to War & Rune mastery? Eg: Warlord's Blacksteel Bullwark, or Runesage's Blacksteel Bullwark

Q2: Is a Hallowed monster helm from Act 5 even possible? Eg: Hallowed Helm of Valholl

Q3: Is a Hallowed monster helm from Atlantis even possible? Eg: Hallowed Redfist Hide

Q5: I was a bit confused by some of your wording. Do these bugs for monster drops extend to Act 4? Is a Stately Atouk possible, or could I find myself with an Atouk of the Gods?

Q6: I get that there are no thorough lists like I asked previously (I appreciate the clarification,) but is there some sort of source material that nearly exhaustively goes through these quirks that you're talking about--which drop tables are used, and which drop tables are definitely NOT used in these Acts? Even a forum thread would be appreciated. Or is there some sort of way to open up TQ game files so that I can harvest this data myself?

Q7: Not really related, but can I assume any item specific affix combo is possible so long as it occurs on the item by itself.  Would a Redfist Jerkin of the Mammoth be possible, or is some exception put in so that you can't get 50 bazillion HP? I have seen Veteran's Spears, and Spears of the Siren. Is a Veteran's Spear of the Siren possible? There are probably better examples where the combinations would be incredibly OP, but I just can't think of them at the moment.

Q8: I gave your previous reply an excellent rating. Is this how I give karma? Is there something more I can do for your rep?
« Last Edit: 07 March 2020, 18:54:47 by ConradTheMad »

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Offline soa

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #3 on: 07 March 2020, 23:40:53 »
« Last Rated on: 08 March 2020, 18:17:40 »
I appreciate your help a great deal, soa. Perhaps you can clarify a few additional questions resulting from your help.

I am certain I have seen Warlord's & Runesage's Axes. TQ Database confirms this. Also, does the monster dropped non chest armor having Chest affixes mean that they use the Chest tables only?
They use chest tables only. So you can't drop a monster armband from A5 with an armband-specific affix.

Q1: Isn't it possible then for Act 5 monster shields to have +2 to War & Rune mastery? Eg: Warlord's Blacksteel Bullwark, or Runesage's Blacksteel Bullwark
Yes, I forgot about that. Because axes can have these affixes, it means those monster shield from act 5 can also have it. So for Rune affix they look correct. But they get a +X Warfare instead of +X Defense.

Q2: Is a Hallowed monster helm from Act 5 even possible? Eg: Hallowed Helm of Valholl
No. They only drop torso affixes (from act 4).

Q3: Is a Hallowed monster helm from Atlantis even possible? Eg: Hallowed Redfist Hide
No. They only drop torso affixes (from act 4).

Q5: I was a bit confused by some of your wording. Do these bugs for monster drops extend to Act 4? Is a Stately Atouk possible, or could I find myself with an Atouk of the Gods?
What I meant is that affix tables are the same for act 4 and 5. That's not a bug, only laziness. They reused the same tables. Affix tables are used to roll an prefix or a suffix on an item (it contains a list of affixes and a roll chance).
What it means is that you won't have a progression of the power of the affixes between act 4 and 5.
Loot tables however, are different between act 4 and 5. Loot tables are files that associate an item with an affix table (to make it simple).
Loot tables from act 4 are fine. You can have a Stately Atouk but not an Atouk of the Gods.
Loot tables from act 5 use affix tables from act 4 (like I said, not a bug), but for monster armor, all loot tables call torso affix tables.

Q6: I get that there are no thorough lists like I asked previously (I appreciate the clarification,) but is there some sort of source material that nearly exhaustively goes through these quirks that you're talking about--which drop tables are used, and which drop tables are definitely NOT used in these Acts? Even a forum thread would be appreciated. Or is there some sort of way to open up TQ game files so that I can harvest this data myself?
What I do is decompile the game's database (Titan Quest Anniversary Edition\Database\database.arz) with ARZExplorer.exe (it's in the game root directory, or if not you should find it on this forum). That gives me readable files (.dbr format). And then I open the files in Art Manager. Or in some cases it may be more convenient to open them with a text editor to make searches through many of them.

Q7: Not really related, but can I assume any item specific affix combo is possible so long as it occurs on the item by itself.  Would a Redfist Jerkin of the Mammoth be possible, or is some exception put in so that you can't get 50 bazillion HP? I have seen Veteran's Spears, and Spears of the Siren. Is a Veteran's Spear of the Siren possible? There are probably better examples where the combinations would be incredibly OP, but I just can't think of them at the moment.
There's no exception or limit of this sort. I saw builds aiming for max HP, and these were involving something like a Redfist Jerkin of the Mammoth.
Exceptions or caps (eg. max -80% recharge, 80% resistance, etc.) are global for a character, not linked to a particular item. You can have a 115% Fire resistance item for instance, it will fully work as long as your global resistance is under or equal to 80%. There is no hard cap for HP.
A Veteran's Spear of the Siren is theoretically possible, but very rare.


Q8: I gave your previous reply an excellent rating. Is this how I give karma? Is there something more I can do for your rep?
I believe ratings are given per post.
But karma is given for per people. You can click the +1/-1 buttons under the karma score of a member.
« Last Edit: 07 March 2020, 23:47:22 by soa »

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Online icefreeze

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #4 on: 08 March 2020, 04:11:58 »
« Last Rated on: 09 March 2020, 15:49:19 »
I appreciate your help a great deal, soa. Perhaps you can clarify a few additional questions resulting from your help.

I am certain I have seen Warlord's & Runesage's Axes. TQ Database confirms this. Also, does the monster dropped non chest armor having Chest affixes mean that they use the Chest tables only?
They use chest tables only. So you can't drop a monster armband from A5 with an armband-specific affix.

Q1: Isn't it possible then for Act 5 monster shields to have +2 to War & Rune mastery? Eg: Warlord's Blacksteel Bullwark, or Runesage's Blacksteel Bullwark
Yes, I forgot about that. Because axes can have these affixes, it means those monster shield from act 5 can also have it. So for Rune affix they look correct. But they get a +X Warfare instead of +X Defense.

Q2: Is a Hallowed monster helm from Act 5 even possible? Eg: Hallowed Helm of Valholl
No. They only drop torso affixes (from act 4).

Q3: Is a Hallowed monster helm from Atlantis even possible? Eg: Hallowed Redfist Hide
No. They only drop torso affixes (from act 4).

Q5: I was a bit confused by some of your wording. Do these bugs for monster drops extend to Act 4? Is a Stately Atouk possible, or could I find myself with an Atouk of the Gods?
What I meant is that affix tables are the same for act 4 and 5. That's not a bug, only laziness. They reused the same tables. Affix tables are used to roll an prefix or a suffix on an item (it contains a list of affixes and a roll chance).
What it means is that you won't have a progression of the power of the affixes between act 4 and 5.
Loot tables however, are different between act 4 and 5. Loot tables are files that associate an item with an affix table (to make it simple).
Loot tables from act 4 are fine. You can have a Stately Atouk but not an Atouk of the Gods.
Loot tables from act 5 use affix tables from act 4 (like I said, not a bug), but for monster armor, all loot tables call torso affix tables.

Q6: I get that there are no thorough lists like I asked previously (I appreciate the clarification,) but is there some sort of source material that nearly exhaustively goes through these quirks that you're talking about--which drop tables are used, and which drop tables are definitely NOT used in these Acts? Even a forum thread would be appreciated. Or is there some sort of way to open up TQ game files so that I can harvest this data myself?
What I do is decompile the game's database (Titan Quest Anniversary Edition\Database\database.arz) with ARZExplorer.exe (it's in the game root directory, or if not you should find it on this forum). That gives me readable files (.dbr format). And then I open the files in Art Manager. Or in some cases it may be more convenient to open them with a text editor to make searches through many of them.

Q7: Not really related, but can I assume any item specific affix combo is possible so long as it occurs on the item by itself.  Would a Redfist Jerkin of the Mammoth be possible, or is some exception put in so that you can't get 50 bazillion HP? I have seen Veteran's Spears, and Spears of the Siren. Is a Veteran's Spear of the Siren possible? There are probably better examples where the combinations would be incredibly OP, but I just can't think of them at the moment.
There's no exception or limit of this sort. I saw builds aiming for max HP, and these were involving something like a Redfist Jerkin of the Mammoth.
Exceptions or caps (eg. max -80% recharge, 80% resistance, etc.) are global for a character, not linked to a particular item. You can have a 115% Fire resistance item for instance, it will fully work as long as your global resistance is under or equal to 80%. There is no hard cap for HP.
A Veteran's Spear of the Siren is theoretically possible, but very rare.


Q8: I gave your previous reply an excellent rating. Is this how I give karma? Is there something more I can do for your rep?
I believe ratings are given per post.
But karma is given for per people. You can click the +1/-1 buttons under the karma score of a member.
Q2 + Q3 - M.I - NOT, Green - YES. I get some Hallowed green head armors in act5+Atlantis, play with single game no mod + xmax +massbosses,... those custom maps don't change drops loot table.

« Last Edit: 08 March 2020, 04:35:11 by icefreeze »

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Offline soa

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #5 on: 08 March 2020, 11:30:17 »
« Last Rated on: 08 March 2020, 18:19:09 »
Q2 + Q3 - M.I - NOT, Green - YES. I get some Hallowed green head armors in act5+Atlantis, play with single game no mod + xmax +massbosses,... those custom maps don't change drops loot table.
He spoke about monster helms specifically, not common green.

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Offline ConradTheMad

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #6 on: 08 March 2020, 18:27:11 »

I believe ratings are given per post.
But karma is given for per people. You can click the +1/-1 buttons under the karma score of a member.


Thank you, icefreeze.

And thank you, soa. The +/- karma didn't show up below the rating until today. Not sure what that's about, but +1. And holy hell, man--thank you very much. You've saved me a lot of time & grief. I was trying to farm the impossible. You have answered basically every question I've had about TQ since Ragnarok came out excluding a few more that I just thought of.. would you mind? LOL

Q1: I have never seen a monster infrequent leg armor with any +movement speed bonus. No pegasus, campaigning, journeying, etc affix has EVER appeared. Is this just bad luck?

Q2: Is there a universal pool of affixes for Legendary Craftmanship Quest (LCQ) that all characters have access to, or is it limited to a specific character somehow, by mastery, attributes, skill distribution, etc? IE if I were to back up 2 very different characters and continue to run the LCQ, would they eventually both roll all the same bonuses? Or would a very different character facilitate a very different bonus?

Q3: Assuming I'm happy with an upgrade, can I transfer the upgraded item to another character with LCQ, and upgrade it multiple times?

Q4: Is there any relations to drops, and what level or how much experience a character has or any other factor excluding what Act/difficulty you're in? Maybe it's just coincidence, but when my experience bar at the bottom is in the first one or two notches, it seems like I get better & more frequent drops. Eg. I once farmed three Stonebinder Cuffs in a single hour in the Labyrinth, and after that bar went beyond that point, it was 2 hours before I saw another. Is this pure coincidence & luck?
« Last Edit: 09 March 2020, 16:01:41 by ConradTheMad »

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Offline soa

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #7 on: 09 March 2020, 20:05:48 »
« Last Rated on: 10 March 2020, 14:47:58 »
Q1: I have never seen a monster infrequent leg armor with any +movement speed bonus. No pegasus, campaigning, journeying, etc affix has EVER appeared. Is this just bad luck?
It's just because these are rare or very rare. The MIs in general (not all like the bugs above for Ragnarok/Atlantis) use the same affix tables than common items. MIs have a better probability to get an affix, but you also drop less MIs than regular items.
If you take Orient Mage Greaves, for instance (Bandari...), in Legendary they have 15/5350 (0,28%) chance to give a Pegasus suffix. So it would take a mean of 357 MI greaves to get that suffix.
Of Travel has 300/5350 (5,6%), of Journeying 250/5350 (4,67%), of Campaigning 50/5350 (0,93%). These numbers are just examples for Orient Mage Greaves but you roughly get the idea.

Q2: Is there a universal pool of affixes for Legendary Craftmanship Quest (LCQ) that all characters have access to, or is it limited to a specific character somehow, by mastery, attributes, skill distribution, etc? IE if I were to back up 2 very different characters and continue to run the LCQ, would they eventually both roll all the same bonuses? Or would a very different character facilitate a very different bonus?
There's probably a seed for every character that influences the rolls, but you don't really know before you try it.

Q3: Assuming I'm happy with an upgrade, can I transfer the upgraded item to another character with LCQ, and upgrade it multiple times?
Every time you roll an affix on an item with the forge, it will overwrite the previous affix. You're not going to pile up multiple prefixes and suffixes if that's what you were looking for.

Q4: Is there any relations to drops, and what level or how much experience a character has or any other factor excluding what Act/difficulty you're in? Maybe it's just coincidence, but when my experience bar at the bottom is in the first one or two notches, it seems like I get better & more frequent drops. Eg. I once farmed three Stonebinder Cuffs in a single hour in the Labyrinth, and after that bar went beyond that point, it was 2 hours before I saw another. Is this pure coincidence & luck?
Some items drop more or less depending on your level, if you are close to their target level, you have more chances to drop them, if you are lower or higher you get less chances. I dont think it's linked to how much XP there is in the bar.

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Offline ConradTheMad

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #8 on: 10 March 2020, 15:49:44 »
Okay, thanks again, soa. Lots of great information here. Another +1. Have a good one.

« Last Edit: 10 March 2020, 15:53:14 by ConradTheMad »

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Offline Endymion

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #9 on: 10 March 2020, 20:00:35 »
Q2: Is there a universal pool of affixes for Legendary Craftmanship Quest (LCQ) that all characters have access to, or is it limited to a specific character somehow, by mastery, attributes, skill distribution, etc? IE if I were to back up 2 very different characters and continue to run the LCQ, would they eventually both roll all the same bonuses? Or would a very different character facilitate a very different bonus?
There is a fixed affix pool for the forge upgrades.
Namely it puts torso affixes on all armor including jewelry;  Weapons receive sword prefixes and club suffixes, except staves that do get staff affixes.
So ultimately yes, different chars will eventually get the identical bonus if they upgrade items of the same type.

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Offline ConradTheMad

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #10 on: 11 March 2020, 17:23:25 »
There is a fixed affix pool for the forge upgrades.
Namely it puts torso affixes on all armor including jewelry;  Weapons receive sword prefixes and club suffixes, except staves that do get staff affixes.
So ultimately yes, different chars will eventually get the identical bonus if they upgrade items of the same type.

There's probably a seed for every character that influences the rolls, but you don't really know before you try it.

So now it seems that I'm getting conflicting information. soa says each hero has a specific seed. I have seen other things on my various searches that allude to this as well. You seem to be saying that this isn't the case.

Unless I'm mistaken you are saying: If Hero A gets +Vitality Resistance on an item, then Hero B will definitely, eventually get the same bonus affix on the same item provided I have backed up the hero, and rerun it repeatedly. This will hold true no matter what hero I use.

Not to be rude, or discouraging, I just want to be clear about this--What evidence do you have of this?  Trial error wouldn't exhaustively prove this, because if two characters had similar seeds, that wouldn't preclude that every hero made would have the same result. Do you have some evidence from extracting game data, or something more definitive?

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Offline soa

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #11 on: 11 March 2020, 21:32:46 »
« Last Rated on: 11 March 2020, 21:44:04 »
So now it seems that I'm getting conflicting information. soa says each hero has a specific seed. I have seen other things on my various searches that allude to this as well. You seem to be saying that this isn't the case.

Unless I'm mistaken you are saying: If Hero A gets +Vitality Resistance on an item, then Hero B will definitely, eventually get the same bonus affix on the same item provided I have backed up the hero, and rerun it repeatedly. This will hold true no matter what hero I use.

Not to be rude, or discouraging, I just want to be clear about this--What evidence do you have of this?  Trial error wouldn't exhaustively prove this, because if two characters had similar seeds, that wouldn't preclude that every hero made would have the same result. Do you have some evidence from extracting game data, or something more definitive?
No, I didn't mean that.
I'm not saying there is a fixed seed for every character, that will make it impossible for some characters to get a specific affix.

Actually there are two different things :
- what is coded in the engine or outside of the database : we don't have direct or easy access to it, it would take hacks (maybe), a lot of testing and/or speaking with the devs to improve our knowledge about it.
- what is in the database, this is easier to see, but we don't always know for sure how the game engine handles it or even if it uses it.

In the database, there is one list of prefixes and one of suffixes for each "item type" and difficulty (note : it's still labelled as a "preliminary version" by the devs, there is also a "proper version" in the works but now it only leads to tables that are mostly empty). There is no indication of a difference of treatment for different characters.
So two characters, even if they have a very different profile, will use the same tables if they try to upgrade the same type of item in the same difficulty. At least that's what we can guess from the forge config file (looking at records/xpack2/creatures/npc/dvergr/speaking/durin_upgrader.dbr)

You have for most weapons sword prefixes and club suffixes (I haven't tested, but suppose this includes shields, bows and thrown). The tables are in the upper half of quality, with more rare affixes in general, except suffixes for normal.
For staves, there are separate tables (upper half of quality for suffixes).
For "melee" armor (I don't know exactly how this is defined), the game uses the torso melee affix tables.
For "mage" armor (I don't know exactly how this is defined), the game uses the torso mage affix tables.
All affix tables are those of act 4 of the corresponding difficulty.

We can suppose the game rolls in these lists independantly of the character (its level, its class, its seed that is reset when you relaunch the game, etc.). I just meant that, like any roll, your character's seed may influence the quality of the affix, or what affixes you can drop in a game session. But I don't know how, and unless you have data on this, you can't anticipate what affixes you will possibly get for every seed.
« Last Edit: 12 March 2020, 15:58:46 by soa »

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Offline ConradTheMad

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Re: I'm looking for a more thorough list of affixes than TQDB
« Reply #12 on: 12 March 2020, 15:11:22 »
We can suppose the game rolls in these lists independantly of the character (its level, its class, its seed that is reset when you relaunch the game, etc.). I just meant that, like any roll, your character's seed may influence the quality of the affix, or what affixes you can drop in a game session. But I don't know how, and unless you have data on this, you can't anticipate what affixes you will possibly get for every seed.

Ah, ok. That clears things up for me as much as possible given the lack of info & seems to be more consistent with what Endymion said. Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. 

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