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Messages - siegefried
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« on: 02 January 2020, 11:06:39 »
Imo the leveling pace along with the increased level requirement can make the game feel much less rewarding. While it can be that I am not used to the leveling pace, it does feel that I am getting less for the same amount of effort placed in. I got the Nessus soul, which had the requirement increased from 10 to 14. 10 would have been the normal level I used to clear Nessus at, but now I would be waiting till at least the Gorgon sisters if not further to equip the soul. In terms of how the progression feels to me, I prefer the older implementation so far.
That aside,
Helos 3 Sparta (after Nessus) 7 Megara 9
Am running a druid to make observation easier, Level 20 wolves (with shrine) tearing up stuff quite nicely (including the elite turtles), though hero fights can wipe them off. Will respec off Wolves to get Squall later since Wolves just cost too much to invest in and I end up with low stats.
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« on: 31 December 2019, 21:30:31 »
* Report: why there are many "neon-green" turtle at beach before reach Megara. Each of this turle strong like a hero (about dmg), and they using range attack...
In Soulvizier there are elite mobs. These mobs can be extremely challenging to deal with, and it is recommended that you avoid engaging them if you are not ready. Elite mobs drop their own (new) charms though. They also tend to give a hefty chunk of exp if you clear them. Not sure of the build and the exact issues you are facing, but elite mobs can easily be a cause of death in SV...
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« on: 25 December 2019, 06:21:32 »
It is viable in IT, just as with any single mastery though, stats will be low, so you will need to be careful as appropriate. Most mobs can be dealt with by electrical burn (DW or DR), then Sands of Sleep. Enough EBD gear exists for this to work, though it will take longer without resist reduction of course. Nightmare is able to grab the aggro of a lot of bosses, which will make those boss fights easier.
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« on: 22 December 2019, 16:45:10 »
It also depends a lot on the XP/leveling progression, so I won't make any new changes to the requirements before I get some feedback from players. If it turns out to be a mistake, I'll still be able to revert back to the official game, or to tone it down.
Yes, the broad range of changes that could occur given the change in leveling progression is the main reason why I would be more cautious with tuning stat requirements. Regarding resistance penalty and relics/charms into uniques, my reasoning is simplistic but I think it's a start : not allowing to socket uniques is roughly compensated by not having more resistances penalties. If it's not accurate I'll just have to give more penalties in the future. But I needed something to compensate, otherwise the game would have been too difficult.
I was not a huge fan of the resistances penalty. It is part of what makes progression too stifling playing hardcore untwinked. Not socketing uniques is already a nerf beyond the resistances issue, I also feel this will allow you to make it easier to balance. It made getting new gear much less exciting when you had to build around at least 3 pieces of massive res gear. In general, I think one of the weaknesses of SV balance is to deviate too much from the original game. I mean, the official game balance surely has its faults but I think it's a good start. At some point, the more you deviate from it, the harder it becomes to get a good balance. SV tends to balance things by always deviating more from the original : - let's boost the number of monsters - the player has too much XP/levels, the game is too easy, let's boost the monsters damage and resistances - the player is getting crushed now, let's make uniques socketable - the player's too strong now, let's give him huge resistances penalties - the player's too weak now, let's create new ultra strong items
Some of it is a legacy from Munderbunny's implementation I believe. It started from Uber mod, where orb bosses could give very interesting combination of affixes. like Divine (green ring) of the Betrayer type of affixes. In order to compete against those items, allowing uniques to be socketed would more or less be a given. When we transitioned from Uber to UL, the type of balance in mind was probably already quite different from official, and souls were only implemented in SV. Mythics were not designed for regular gameplay, they were more like tokens to chase after for end game farming. Mythics required double rare affix MIs to be crafted initially, it was pretty much impossible to get one with regular gameplay outside of insane luck. The later change of requirement for double affix with one rare took that difficulty down by more than a notch, allowing players to more conceivably farm for one. The original ultra strong items were more easter eggs that rewarded dedication than designed to be used regularly though. Well, my reference was closer to the official AE game. Because they change a lot the XP curve with Ragnarok and it's hard to compare SV AER with SV0.98i if they don't have the name number of acts (not even talking about Atlantis).
[...]
In the end, I'm hoping to get a XP curve that is closer to the original AE game. Or something between AE and SV0.98i. But because you have a fifth act, and Atlantis, it's hard to know exactly where it will end up.
Exactly why I felt a lot of play testing would probably be needed to get an accurate picture of how to tweak the stat requirements. I'm not touching balance anymore until I get feedback from players. Now I'm focusing on content and bringing Soulvizier in full into the AE edition. A1 creatures are done. Working on A2 creatures now. Even if this work is not complete, I think it will be good enough for a beta. Creature changes between SV0.98i and SV AER are not that big.
Looking forward to it! If the difficulty curve is retained, I expect that like many of our forerunners, Normal Act 3 would probably be a real testing ground of builds (without twinking and massive grinding). Also just out of curiosity, any thoughts on Refresh for Nature? We had -% recharge in SV since there was no cap to recharge reduction then, there might be potential for some fun with having Refresh (or putting something similar on soul/gear maybe).
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« on: 22 December 2019, 01:55:41 »
I have played SV for many many years... playing it mostly over TQAE too.
With regards to item requirements I would say it depends on the scale of how large the change is. I play untwinked, generally the stat requirement is very low for the character's standards by the time I get something really worthwhile. I'm guessing the change is to make things a bit harder for twinkers - this is not a new concept, since at least normal (can't remember offhand for epic/leg) SBC had its requirements raised in SV over IT. Which made it much more troublesome for casters to equip early SBC, and iirc would go over the min DEX requirements for mythics if they want to push for it really early due to quest rewards. It would depend on what soa envisions I guess.
Personally I would wait to test how the game goes before raising requirements too soon though, item variety was actually not too well done in SV imo, despite the variety there is. (At least for those of us who were/are doing the untwinked hardcore). The issue was the resistance penalty, which was too high. Once you get high res gear (i.e. Tunic of the Magi, Geras' Walking Stick) it is very hard to let go. (because maintaining resistances involves swapping a lot of gear, not just switching out an armor piece) Since I believe we are not doing charms/relics in uniques now, that variety would be a bit more restricted as well. To allow for more interesting options or to make gear requirements a larger consideration... this one would be hard I guess. For twinkers, donning legendaries in Normal Act 3 or so should be simple to accomplish with current standards. I wasn't the only one in the untwinked hardcore thread who reached level 38 to 40 or so in Act 2, which might help to put things in perspective. Since res penalty will be back to default (or at least not as harsh as original SV), I find it very hard to imagine how tweaking the stat requirements (aside from level) would turn out without a lot of play testing. I would vote for increasing the level requirement of items mostly.
I'm not sure what kind of benchmark soa would want with regards to leveling, but just in case it is helpful, in current IT SV I roughly encounter this leveling curve.
Level 10 - Nessus Level 18 - Gorgon Sisters Level 24 - First Telkine
These milestones were noted because they are more consistent and the relative difficulty compared to the other bosses.
The Telkine generally is the first really hard fight of the game (and like x10 in difficulty if he has his soul). On most characters if I can, I will try to push past him asap to get access to Egypt where we can level faster and easier than we do in Greece. This does not mean that I can clear Telkine at Level 24 on all classes though, only that I usually reach him around that level. This does not include fully clearing maps, but does include the following
- Farming Shaman at least twice if not more, iirc he has a higher chance to drop soul than most enemies, and it is really helpful at the start if you do get it - Using EXP shrine for quests as much as possible - A few rounds of clearing Pythian Caves till around Level 20/21, in case I get lucky with SBC drop
Depending on how hard it is to face the Telkine, taking time to farm for some EXP and upgrades on items (lightning res is still okay to manage, Demon's Blood is obviously great for vit res, I tend to go to the cave after Delphi if I have not accumulated enough Demon's Blood. The characters that had a tougher time usually ends up around 28, latest case probably 30. Interestingly, I tend to end up with a copy of the level 10 mercenary contract in Act 1... I would estimate around 70% of my runs.
Now that I think about it, the level discrepancy can be quite large o.O", in any case, playing hardcore, I tend to reach 38 to 40 before entering Act 3. Lowest level clearing the Egypt Telkine is around 32, most are around 35, on the verge to 36. This fight has a comparatively easier feeling than the Greece Telkine, since we tend to have unlocked some of the more powerful stuff at this point. Not sure if others have a similar experience with me, but this is how the leveling goes for me. Reaching Egypt Telkine at 32 is normal for me. Leveling in this case is from the Egypt Telkine run (Obelisks + elite undead/heroes for massive exp and shrine on the way), or if I clear the Telkine, the Thebes west gate run for 2 chances of shrine, 9 obelisks and high chance of elite undead. From here on, the data is haphazard due to ahem... lots of tomb stones. And where pet builds start to suck (even more so than before). Pet builds are of course playable, but they require certain items to shine, and I don't have access to them untwinked. But if my characters finish Normal Act 4, they tend to be around 55. Generally with lesser leveling in Orient and more in Act 4. This also of course means that if I have twink gear, I would be able to equip Mythics mid Epic. It is also at this point that level tends to not be so important since you have all the stats needed to equip items (which can also signal lack of progress in itemization for twinkers, aside from legendary souls some of which will require you to grind a bit), all the core skills for your build, and are just deciding between the bonus stats between going beyond mastery 40 or to dump a bit more SP into some not as important skills.
Not sure how much of that is useful, probably not much, but just contributing what I can because of how much I love SV...
As I will be busy during this period of time I won't be able to contribute much to beta testing so I will wait for the release. Very much appreciate the work done by soa for this, it has been my hope that I would be able to play SV in AE ever since I tried AE. (Sorry to Zyddie and the officials, but I really find SV to be better than AE... heck I had Grim Dawn waiting on my list and still played SV more).
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