Author Topic: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis  (Read 1419 times)

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Offline soa

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Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« on: 22 May 2019, 20:21:35 »
So I decided to create a dedicated topic adressing the new skills in Atlantis and how I plan to implement them (or not) in Soulvizier.
There is a limiting factor because for now we still have a 24 skill limitation in every skill tree, so I can’t put as many skills as I want to… I requested the devs to put this to a higher limit but I don’t know if it will be done (and when).
This means that when I will add a new skill, I will have to delete another or merge a skill and its modifier.

All masteries
•   I think I will ditch the new Taunt skill because it wastes a precious skill slot for all masteries. Maybe I’ll find some room for it in quest/scroll trees.

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Offline soa

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #1 on: 22 May 2019, 20:21:45 »
Hunting

•   Spear Dance : it’s an overall failure, it feels very clunky to use (poor FX, no sound), fear is an horrible idea in a lot of cases, like here, because you want the enemy to stay close so you can kill faster, not flee like these nasty archers. That said giving multihit to hunting is very useful in some builds where you lack it, eg Hunting + Spirit has a faster clear speed with it, from my playtesting.
=> Spear Tempest in Soulvizier already did it better : decent bonus physical (+OA/Attack speed), confusion instead of fear, 100% dodge during the animation. Skill modifier (called Flayer) that boosts the number of targets, angle and damage. Seems OK to me, the skill is offensive and defensive (in a way). Maybe I’ll recycle the Spear Dance icon for Flayer. Only thing, maybe the cooldown is too low, I don’t know.


•   Finesse : seems over the top if you add it to Call of the Hunt. May be justified mostly for pets and multiplayer. I think I’ll redistribute some of these bonuses, toned down, in CotH and its existing modifier. No slot lost.

Other things :
•   I reactivated Eviscerate (Take Down modifier that disappeared in last Soulvizier version). It still feels a bit too weak, ideas for improvement ? Like : reduce cooldown,… Or maybe I’ll remove it and merge it with Take Down… Its bleeding damage will improve at least to Anniversary level (375 bleeding ~3s).


« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:35:51 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #2 on: 22 May 2019, 20:21:53 »
Warfare

•   Lasting Legacy : I’ll keep it as is.
•   Slam : the idea seems OK to me, I’ll keep it and may tweak numbers in the future.

So, two slots will be needed, this is a tough choice. I’m thinking about :
•   kicking Glory out because it’s too cheesy over Battle Standard + Triumph, which is already too powerful (and that +X% XP that you can use as an exploit for getting more quest XP…)
•   merging Finesse (yeah, same name as Hunting Atlantis skill) with the highest levels of War Wind.

   
   
•   Maybe Lineal Chains (active replacing Hamstring) would need to become Hamstring again, otherwise it may give too much active skills in one mastery.

« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:35:34 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #3 on: 22 May 2019, 20:22:03 »
Defense

•   Perfect Block : this one seems to really fit the mastery (you need some skill to time it correctly), but will be a tough one to balance. I think I’ll keep it but it will need some balance. Clearly designed for boss fights or to block something powerful.
•   Unyielding Phalanx : I like the skill aesthetically but not sure about it’s real intent because pets don’t look like they’re designed for damage, and don’t protect very well either for a 80sec CD skill, because they are not around your char. Still, adds variety to Defense which had no pet. I was thinking of giving ranged fighters to the Phalanx (a mix between melee and ranged), but not sure if it’s doable, plus some ranged guys will be on the front line because you can’t control the placement. Maybe the soldiers should be able to move (slowly) to be able to do more damage.
So, two slots will be needed, and for now I don’t really know which ones are the best candidates. Any thoughts ? (new skills from SV are shown below).
Maybe Shield Training should go into Armor Handling, or Battle Awareness… Or be deleted/toned down ?
Any way, if I can’t find room, I’ll put these new skills on souls or items.

« Last Edit: 22 May 2019, 20:57:16 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #4 on: 22 May 2019, 20:22:13 »
Rogue/Occult

•   Blade Barrier : I’ll keep it, will need to upgrade the poor graphics and improve damage. Maybe it should be in a line instead of around the char ?
•   Poison Mayhem : I won’t keep it, there are already two upgrades for poison bomb in SV (which is actually no longer a pure poison damage bomb). Maybe later if I think it fits, or more probably there will be a soul skill with multi poison gas bombs (closer bombs for the reliability of the skill).
=> Overall one skill slot is needed. I’m thinking of ditching Shadow Grasp (Breach modifier) and reverting Breach to its Underlord state (in SV, it’s a big hand coming from the ground with AOE damage, in Underlord it was summoning suicidal demons).

« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:35:27 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #5 on: 22 May 2019, 20:22:24 »
Storm

•   Lightning Dash : it seems a welcomed and useful skill to me. It gives mobility to melee classes using storm. Defense + Storm is somewhat slow during Shield charge cooldown and has no LMB skill. Other melee storm chars may benefit from it too. It will need to be lower in the tree (getting it at 24 or 32) and having it converting a part of physical damage into lightning in order to make it more thematic with storm.

•   Arc discharge : not sure about that one. Wisp has never been a good damage dealer, is it really enough to change anything ?
I think I’ll give a “free” Arc discharge to the higher levels of Storm Wisp because I think there’s no real incentive to put points in it otherwise. This way it may be useful.

I’m thinking of merging Ice burst and Flash freeze (can’t get AOE freeze If I do that, so I will give Flash Freeze a bit chances of freeze retaliation and more frostburn retaliation damage) to get a slot for Lightning Dash.
 


Other things :
•   I made a first attempt at transforming Freezing Blast (it doesn’t target very well) into a Frost nova. This will give CC slow + freeze over an area.


Here’s a video of a test :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=IgsgFKAFJmo

Besides, SV Storm has a bit improved CC over TQAE :
•   Flash Freeze + Ice Burst will still have freeze + slow retaliation
•   Thunderball + Concussive Blast have more radius and fragments than TQ AE (hence more stun)
•   Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning petrify instead of stun
•   Squall slows the enemies and their attacks (I may reduce the cooldown to be closer to TQAE).
   
Storm tree before adding Lightning Dash :
« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:37:15 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #6 on: 22 May 2019, 20:22:39 »
Earth

•   Meteor Rain : seems quite unpredictable and weak, for now I’m thinking of keeping this for a soul and reworking it so it is more useable. Soulvizier had a single Meteor that was crazy powerful, and that was of precious help mostly against bosses. So far I’m thinking of keeping it as it was in SV, because meteor rain doesn’t really bring more than Volcanic Orb + Eruption, whereas Meteor helps against bosses.
•   Fire Nova : seems OK to me on paper, will see if mana cost is too high for SV standards.
=> Overall one skill slot is needed. I’m going to merge Stone Form and its modifier.

« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:35:11 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #7 on: 22 May 2019, 20:22:47 »
Spirit

•   Soul Drain : I won't keep it, because Life Drain isn't in Spirit Soulvizier.
•   Soul Vortex : I will keep it.

I will merge 2 modifiers for Deathchill Aura (Wither and Diffusion, give % Health reduction, bleeding damage and energy leech around you), to get a slot for Soul Vortex.

Other things :
I plan to replace Acid Rain with a skill called Mayhem that has a % chance of Mind Control for a few seconds in an AOE. Acid Rain will go as a soul skill.
Test video (for now I don't know why "converted" icons take so long to apply on monsters, maybe related to Atlantis bugs) :




Skill tree before adding Soul Vortex and merging Wither and Diffusion :

« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:34:42 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #8 on: 22 May 2019, 20:22:58 »
Nature

•   Sylvan Protection : I haven’t tested it enough, but it seems a weak skill from most player’s feedback. This said, I like the idea. Any thoughts on how to improve it ? Improve wave width (for now : fixed over the levels), cast rate (for now : ranges from 10 to 5,25s), or trap/slow time (for now : ranges for 1 to 3.75s and slow lasts 1 more sec) ? Maybe each of these.
•   Earthbind : basically, the same skill as the nymph for the player, but larger AOE, numbers tweaked a bit. Why not, haven’t tested enough.

Other mods :
•   Elemental Flurry seems to work OK and will need testing/feedback


•   I am planning on deleting Nature’s Wrath skill modifier (1st modifier of Nymph) to give it to the base Nymph. This way the points put in nymph will be more useful and that will give a skill slot for Sylvan protection.
•   I will need to delete another slot for Earthbind. Maybe Nature’s Blessing modifier (merge its bonuses with the base skill and increase the max level of NB) ?



« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:34:53 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #9 on: 22 May 2019, 20:23:08 »
Dream

•   Psionic Beam : graphically, it feels satisfying. Could use a bit more damage, however SV gives more % Life leech and % Health red on Psionic Touch already (with the Psionic Artery modifier). A bit of AOE may help. Thoughts ?
 
•   Dream Image : haven’t tested enough but I think the skill fits the mastery. I’ll keep it and maybe tweak after.

So, needs two slots for this.
I'm thinking of merging Inversion and Mind Breaker, and Troubled Dreams with Sands of Sleep.


Skill tree before Atlantis :

« Last Edit: 25 May 2019, 00:10:30 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #10 on: 22 May 2019, 20:23:19 »
Runes

•   Rune Storm : looks OK if not overpowered to me (monsters have real trouble attacking and cooldown is low, only manacost seems to balance a bit).
•   Rune Field : seems fine to me but runes will need more base damage for endgame (like x2, x3 in highest levels)

Other mods :
•   Rune of Life tweaked to be toggled instead of having to recast it every X s. In higher levels it grows as a radius aura for petmancers and multiplayer purpose.
•   I had planned to use Earthbind for Runes because it was an unused skill (leftover) in Ragnarok, even if I wasn’t sure it fitted Runes. Since there is Earthbind in Nature I no longer plan on using it in Runes. There were two slots for it, one for player and one for the Runic Guardian. I will take these two out which will give room for the two new Atlantis skills.

Skill tree before Atlantis :
« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 07:35:02 by soa »

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #11 on: 25 May 2019, 00:15:32 »
Updated topic for the last masteries.

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Offline Mammothmkii

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #12 on: 27 May 2019, 21:39:50 »
Hey Soa, first thing, great work on the masteries, as for the specific skills, here's my opinion:


Hunting:

Totally agree with just keeping spear tempest instead of spear dance.
As for eviscerate, how viable are bleeding builds in AE? I never tried one so can't say if the 375 bleeding over 3.0 seconds is worth it or not. You need to keep in mind that % reduction to health was also nerfed in AE, as bosses and sub-bosses have higher resistance to it.
My vote would go to just merge it with take down

Defense:
Perfect block, how about increase duration to 2 seconds but also increase its cool-down?
As for unyielding phalanx, is it possible to make them do a circle around the player? Instead of just a straight line.
"Maybe Shield Training should go into Armor Handling," I agree with that.
And perhaps you can remove "Hack" to gain a skill slot? (although that armor penetration is pretty sweet!)

Storm:
I'm one of the fans of lightning dash actually! It makes sense to be at level 24, but not higher. And converting damage to lightning makes sense too!
Just remove arc discharge, what you said fits perfectly, just make it a wisp higher level skill.

Frost nova gives storm a much needed CC, and it looks cool too!!
so in this case frost nova will substitute ice burst for the AOE freeze?

I will comment on other masteries at a later time, keep up the good work!

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #13 on: 29 May 2019, 22:37:37 »
Hunting:

Totally agree with just keeping spear tempest instead of spear dance.
As for eviscerate, how viable are bleeding builds in AE? I never tried one so can't say if the 375 bleeding over 3.0 seconds is worth it or not. You need to keep in mind that % reduction to health was also nerfed in AE, as bosses and sub-bosses have higher resistance to it.
My vote would go to just merge it with take down
From my tests, the bleeding didn't do much. I was playing (TQ AE with Ragnarok and Atlantis) a Bone Charmer in Legendary, not really boosting bleeding damage, but I had max Necrosis.
In SV, % Health reduction is boosted on this skill, so it is better in general because it is not meant to hurt bosses. However bleeding will have to reach at least TQ AE value.
Not sure if I will merge the skill, because I don't really need slots for Hunting for now.

Defense:
Perfect block, how about increase duration to 2 seconds but also increase its cool-down?
As for unyielding phalanx, is it possible to make them do a circle around the player? Instead of just a straight line.
"Maybe Shield Training should go into Armor Handling," I agree with that.
And perhaps you can remove "Hack" to gain a skill slot? (although that armor penetration is pretty sweet!)
There is a dire need for skill slots in Defense. For now I think I will keep Hack and the other SV skills, because they are a nice way of encouraging using Axes and Clubs. And I won't add Phalanx in Defense, because it won't be interesting for a lot of builds. I'll move the skill on items and souls, so that it will be possible to use it on niche builds.
If the devs accept to add slots to the skill trees, I may re add Phalanx to Defense.
I can make Phalanx as a ring, same as Briar Ward. I don't know, maybe leave two versions in the mod...

About Perfect Block : 2s duration seems OK, but I think the cooldown will need more than double.
So instead of a 1,1s dur. / 6,6s cooldown at level 10 (can be reduced to 1,32s CD !!!) it would be 2s dur. / 30s cooldown at level 10 (can be reduced to 6s for a 33% uptime)

Storm:
I'm one of the fans of lightning dash actually! It makes sense to be at level 24, but not higher. And converting damage to lightning makes sense too!
Just remove arc discharge, what you said fits perfectly, just make it a wisp higher level skill.

Frost nova gives storm a much needed CC, and it looks cool too!!
so in this case frost nova will substitute ice burst for the AOE freeze?

I will comment on other masteries at a later time, keep up the good work!
I need a skill slot for Lightning Dash and another for Frost Nova. So I merge Ice Burst into Flash Freeze and kick Freezing Blast out.
I can't make Flash Freeze with a freezing AOE with only one skill slot (or if it is doable I don't know how). So Flash Freeze will receive a Freeze retaliation instead to help a bit, it can't be as good as a real AOE Freeze, that's what Frost Nova is for.

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Re: Soulvizier masteries after Atlantis
« Reply #14 on: 29 May 2019, 23:26:31 »
regarding phalanx, making it circle around the player and making it stay as it is has its own advantages and drawbacks

if it circles around the player, it's possible it attacks more enemies

but as it is now, i tested this before, it can be good against archers if you have high CDR.. summon them far away from you right beside the archers, then stay out of harms way.. i mentioned CDR because that way, immediately after their summon duration ends, you can summon them again.. not very defense-like, but it's safe.. i had to disable quick cast though because.... yeah quick cast broken for casters.. my other thread (edit: https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=972.0)
« Last Edit: 29 May 2019, 23:34:33 by botebote77 »
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