Author Topic: Achilles vs Heracles  (Read 356 times)

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Offline botebote77

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Achilles vs Heracles
« on: 03 April 2019, 00:03:17 »
They never had a chance to fight because they weren't of the same generation but who do you think would win in a theoretical fight between perhaps the 2 greatest Greek heroes?

If you Google "Achilles vs Heracles", you'll find people with their own opinions. I too have an opinion of my own but I'm just curious as to what fellow Titan Questers think

ps: this isn't about TQ builds (if there ever are Achilles and Heracles builds), this is about Greek mythology
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Offline nargil66

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Re: Achilles vs Heracles
« Reply #1 on: 03 April 2019, 05:01:58 »
Ok, lets compare them.
1. Heracles is a son of Zeus - the mightiest god, while Achilles is son of Thetis (minor sea goddess). Heracles wins here.
2. Heracles fought mythical beasts, giants and men, while Achilles fought only men. Heracles is unmatched here. Would Achiless be able to bring alive Cerberus from the underworld? I doubt it...
3. BUT... Achilles has an advantage. He is almost invincible in the Illiad, except for his heels. And he is also a great warrior. So if Heracles doesn't find his weakness, he will have a tough time winning.
4. However, Heracles fought many other demigods and minor gods, like the river god Achelous or the giant Antheus, son of Gaia, who was also "almost invincible"... untill Heracles lifted him off the ground, making him vulnerable, and killed him.
5. Conclusion - my prediction is 5:1 for Heracles to win. He is the greatest greek hero and has achieved impossible tasks, which makes him much more experienced than Achilles, who is good only in war.

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Offline icefreeze

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Re: Achilles vs Heracles
« Reply #2 on: 03 April 2019, 05:44:04 »
Eh, i don't think this is needed to compare.
Heracles win for sure  ::)

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Achilles vs Heracles
« Reply #3 on: 03 April 2019, 08:26:44 »
nargil, you might be interested here,  about Achilles' invulnerability:

Quote
However, none of the sources before Statius make any reference to this general invulnerability. To the contrary, in the IliadHomer mentions Achilles being wounded: in Book 21 the Paeonian hero Asteropaeus, son of Pelagon, challenged Achilles by the river Scamander. He cast two spears at once, one grazed Achilles' elbow, "drawing a spurt of blood".

source:
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles
look under birth and early years

edit: also, the nemean lion was supposed to be invulnerable.. Heracles strangled it to death, flayed it's skin, and made it his armor
« Last Edit: 03 April 2019, 08:45:02 by botebote77 »
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Offline nargil66

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Re: Achilles vs Heracles
« Reply #4 on: 03 April 2019, 17:28:47 »
nargil, you might be interested here,  about Achilles' invulnerability:

Quote
However, none of the sources before Statius make any reference to this general invulnerability. To the contrary, in the IliadHomer mentions Achilles being wounded: in Book 21 the Paeonian hero Asteropaeus, son of Pelagon, challenged Achilles by the river Scamander. He cast two spears at once, one grazed Achilles' elbow, "drawing a spurt of blood".

source:
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles
look under birth and early years

edit: also, the nemean lion was supposed to be invulnerable.. Heracles strangled it to death, flayed it's skin, and made it his armor

Interesting. So I've red the Roman version... and he is more like in the Troy movie. Well, he is no match for Heracles then.
About the Nemean Lion pelt - yeah, its impenetrable, but it doesnt cover Heracles completely. Achilles second armor was made by Hephaestus, so I'd say they are even there.
A note: Imo, Heracles' legends had deeper and more symbolical meaning to the greeks than just tales of heroic feats. To me, its a story about Man's inner struggle on the path to divinity. More like a religion... Nemean Lion, Hydra, Augean Stables... they all mean something else. But that's offtopic and just my thoughts.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Achilles vs Heracles
« Reply #5 on: 03 April 2019, 21:32:42 »
i remember when i reported the Iliad in high school, when i mentioned Achilles was invulnerable except for his heel, my teacher didn't say anything but i could swear he reacted.. now i know why

About the Nemean Lion pelt - yeah, its impenetrable, but it doesnt cover Heracles completely.
that wasn't my point.. my point was even if Achilles was indeed impenetrable, Heracles already killed an opponent like that.. he could just strangle Achilles to death also

and speaking of the Troy movie, there was a part where he was asked if he really can't be wounded.. he answered why would he bother with a shield then? makes sense eh?

Achilles armor may be better than Heracles' but imo, that just makes Heracles cooler.. Achilles mother had to ask Hephaestus to craft an armor.. Heracles made his own armor from the spoils of his previous battles.. Heck he killed 2 snakes as a baby.. Hera sent 2 snakes to kill him (and his brother) when they were still babies.. later their nurse found Heracles playing with 2 dead snakes as if they were his toys

To me, its a story about Man's inner struggle on the path to divinity. More like a religion... Nemean Lion, Hydra, Augean Stables... they all mean something else. But that's offtopic and just my thoughts.
I'm interested to hear (read)

am hmmm path to divinity.. yeah Heracles earned his way to Olympus.. that and his role in gigantomachy automatically makes him god level imo
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