Author Topic: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror  (Read 912 times)

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Offline botebote77

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Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« on: 17 February 2019, 00:39:50 »
Because the best things in life are hybrids!!

I don't really know where to post this.. whether under warfare AE or defense AE.. but i saw there are no topics yet under defense AE so defense AE it is

I started this accomplished hero because i can't spend that much time playing
Recently I've been talking about elemental casters investing on str.. And how a good shield and helm of the mammoth are reasons enough to get str.. So now how about the opposite? Physical Melee toons investing on int.. And i want 2 masteries as far away from int as possible: warfare and defense



First of all, i don't plan to nerf this just because i have int.. I know 80% CDR is possible even for a str + dex build and much of the reason is tracker's hood.. Well, i happen to think there are many helms much better than tracker's hood.. Like the helm shown above.. No, not the wizard hat.. The helm of valholl of the mammoth.. And i 99% believe archmage's clasp + corselet of f^(k!n freyja makes int worth investing on for just about any character.. But as much as possible i would like to avoid corselet of freyja (it's too OP)

by the way it's fun to see a lightning strike fall down from the sky especially if you're a conqueror.. And i chose it to make my conqueror look hybrid as early as possible

more to come
« Last Edit: 17 February 2019, 03:46:17 by botebote77 »
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #1 on: 17 February 2019, 01:37:45 »
Ohohhhh,  I'v never seen that, int on conqueror, i want to see more, what have you in your Pandora's box ?

new ways, new builds  ;D

Quote
But as much as possible i would like to avoid corselet of freyja (it's too OP)
Up to now, nobody reported it in devs thread, but we could do it if you want.
I've no real opinion about that, the same for big tooth.


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Offline botebote77

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #2 on: 17 February 2019, 08:39:00 »
part of me want to be able to say "ha! no one has ever done this before!"

but i can't say that.. i seem to remember back in the old forum some crazy people were experimenting on 100% CDR for just about any class.. and as i remember, people were experimenting on permanent colossus form back then.. i even saw a 100% CDR petmaster warfare + spirit.. it was very strong with perma ancestral warriors and outsider.. i was pretty certain i saw something like that.. if not in the old forum, then somewhere.. but it's probably from the old forum because.... where else?

starting TQAE nature became a necessity for perma ancestral warriors or perma outsider or perma colossus form

and hmmmmm yeah i know of at least 1 other person who would try hybrid stat for a conqueror (if he hasn't already).. a little craziness is needed to punch through walls  ;D
« Last Edit: 17 February 2019, 08:47:40 by botebote77 »
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Offline botebote77

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #3 on: 17 February 2019, 21:28:47 »
mini rant

not related to topic

let's say a true hybrid spear haruspex with corselet of freyja.. if I'm not mistaken, wood lore gives 350 DA at ultimate max.. and premonition 175 DA.. then say your own dex is 400.. so 350+175+400=925 DA.. lets just close it to 1k because it's easy to get 75 DA from items

then you wear corselet of freyja, you now get 2k DA.. that alone is good enough but it also gives +1 all skills, a bit of recharge, and high resists.. and both dream and hunting has CtAP

it's not only haruspex.. hunting + storm with corselet of freyja can easily give you 1600 DA + 100% chance projectile miss (squall).. with just 1 pc of armor, only bosses (and Dactyl which is like a mini boss) can kill you

edit: heck i got my elementalist 1200 DA with just a low 200+ dex (less than 250),  blackbeards booties, and corselet of freyja
« Last Edit: 17 February 2019, 21:35:33 by botebote77 »
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #4 on: 17 February 2019, 22:58:43 »
I agree, too much DA can be gathered that way  ::)
However i remember that DA was nerfed with AE.

Log

Quote
- Defensive Ability greatly exceeding the attacker's Offensive Ability yields diminishing returns

But by how much?  is there a fair balance ? i couldn't say.





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Offline botebote77

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #5 on: 18 February 2019, 01:09:25 »
i also don't know.. i asked that question long time ago even before this forum was created i think.. nobody seem to know the answer

maybe someone in this forum knows?.......

all i know is if you get 2k DA you can get through legendary Dragonian mobs way easier than if you have 1k DA

DA is still very good.. the problem is if you focus too much on DA to get upwards of 1500, it often leads to a sacrifice of resists, damage, low health or something.. well except for corselet of freyja
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Offline AlcyonV

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #6 on: 18 February 2019, 02:41:32 »
An answer to this question here at (4) : http://forum.gamegrob.net/discussions-edition-anniversaire-et-dlc-ragnarok-f96/cheminement-des-attaques-et-des-defenses-t68689.html?sid=734dd9a6cd28539e187ee51cd14bcc9b. And other good infos on attack and defense mechanics… for french readers.


Ctrl-Alt-Suppr is a veteran in TQ modding and theorycrafting and was a pillar in the french community for TQIT… thus far less active now.

Quote
1-Depuis le beta patch puis TQ:AE, chaque type d’esquive est plafonné à 80%
Et l’avantage Capacité Défensive – Capacité Offensive est amoindri de 0.88
(c’est-à-dire que pour esquiver autant qu’avant, à CO équivalente, il faut d’avantage de CD)

2-Pour mémoire, dans (TQ:IT) les pires dactyles avaient 1111 de CO (capacité offensive).
Les personnages end-game avaient de 1500 à 2500 de CD (capacité défensive).
Et les builds globalement optimisées plutôt entre 1700 et 2300.
Avant il "suffisait" de 1111+1000 = 2111 pour esquiver 100%.
Maintenant il faudrait au mieux tabler sur 1111 + 1666 = 2.777 de CD pour esquiver 80%
...
3-Les paliers de multiplicateur de coups critiques dépendent de la valeur nPTH (probabilité courante d'être touché).
Depuis TQ:AE les seuils sont un peu modifiés : 99 100 104 110 117 124.


1-Not very clear even for a french native : "The advantage DA-OA is minored by 0.88". I understand that since TQAE, the result of DA-OA is actually minored by 12%. Maybe I don't understand well.

2-In TQIT dactyls were the encouters with the highest OA (1111). With 2111 DA you esquived 100% from them.
Now you need 2777 to esquive 80% max.
But the author in another post argues that DA, even with such a nerf, is still very effective and prefers high Dex builds than high Str ones with LL (like The Line of Epic Heroes ones), because health bar doesn't suffer so high drops.

3- The crit multiplier levels have been a little bit changed in AE too.

You can see the table below in his post with the chance to esquive with any DA-OA and crit multipliers.



The first PDF in his post is usefull in order to understand the actual order of defenses in TQ.
« Last Edit: 18 February 2019, 03:11:10 by AlcyonV »

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #7 on: 21 February 2019, 12:50:53 »
thnx to @icefreeze i just remembered adamantine sickle of kronos.. getting a bunch of reduced requirements should be easy.. the problem is the lvl 80 requirement.. but wew fortunately i have 1 helm of the conqueror

https://tq-db.net/equipment/helm-of-the-conqueror

20% reduced lvl requirement.. and perfect for a conqueror.. simple math says 80 becomes 64 so that should be mid epic.. i also have weightless master forge greaves.. so just quick thinking i can maybe go for weightless master forge greaves, oddyseus armor, thoths glory, 2x alke.. the problem is getting enough resists.. hmmm i think i have armlets of freyja.. i have lots of myrmidons pendant.. so i might sacrifice 80% CDR for sickle of kronos.. see which is better.. anyway this will be another option for me nyehehehe

edit: oh right.. 3000 str requirement.. runeword feather
« Last Edit: 21 February 2019, 12:54:44 by botebote77 »
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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #8 on: 24 February 2019, 08:15:37 »
finished normal act 5 at lvl 50 (i'm playing x3 as usual)

epic gear:
Spoiler for Hiden:

items:
myrmidon's pendant
hale of might w/ demons blood
eye of the reveries
helm of valholl of the mammoth w/ +2 erebus
scholar's archmages clasp of spirit (used normal craftsmanship quest)

used oddyseus armor for now because playing hybrid requires saving LOTS of attribute points.. but on legendary, i'll put more points on int

edit: changed my mind.. i think i'll use leggings of the defiled instead of athena's battle greaves
« Last Edit: 24 February 2019, 08:19:36 by botebote77 »
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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #9 on: 26 February 2019, 08:22:54 »
i have a question

shield charge every 3 secs is fun but it sometimes misses.. the weird thing is it's the only attack missing.. onslaught never misses as well as all 3 passive shield attacks.. i find it hard to believe given that i have 1k OA which goes up to 1.3k when battle rage procs.. I'm still in act 1 epic so my OA should be more than enough and yet it still sometimes misses even against those lowly satyrs.. what's even weirder is it only seem to miss while i am in melee range.. when i start at range, meaning i blitz with shield charge, it doesn't seem to miss

the last time i played defense was years ago in TQIT so i don't remember if that's normal for shield charge.. is shield charge really like that? anything i can do with it?

edit: i noticed this since normal diff
« Last Edit: 26 February 2019, 08:31:16 by botebote77 »
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #10 on: 26 February 2019, 19:34:16 »
I don't remind having trouble with shield charge with my runesmith.
But the main difference with your defender is i was playing without much CDR and therefore i kept shield charge only for moving from one pack to another one when available.
So if the problem comes when using it at melee range, i hardly noticed it.

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Offline tqrunner

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #11 on: 14 March 2019, 18:08:43 »
Yes, I have experienced that, but my impression is that the skill animation is being cancelled before the hit lands.

AFAIK shield hits can't miss - you might've noticed that my Juggernaut has very little DEX early game and despite her low OA she does just fine between levels 12-30 relying only on Batter + throwing weapon.

Those Shield Charge "misses" usually happen to me when I try to use the skill before my hero's attack animation is finished. My solution to the problem has been to make sure that my hero isn't swinging his/her weapon when I go for SC. Of course, I could be wrong as I never tested it in depth, but it should't be hard to verify. Just try it a few dozen times on a monster standing next to you, making sure that you didn't perform any actions prior to the SC.

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #12 on: 14 March 2019, 19:55:26 »
On a side note, do you only raise your INT in order to gain access to certain items, or do you plan to equip weapons that do elemental damage? There are now some items that convert physical damage to elemental, so it could be a very interesting route.

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #13 on: 16 March 2019, 00:19:04 »
On a side note, do you only raise your INT in order to gain access to certain items, or do you plan to equip weapons that do elemental damage? There are now some items that convert physical damage to elemental, so it could be a very interesting route.
i thought about that.. but it seems worse because both warfare and defense only boost physical.. and it seems it's even worse than my converted to elemental dreamkiller.. and that dreamkiller is my weakest character i don't even want to continue playing it.. my other dreamkiller (the trapper one) outperforms it by a mile even with less powerful items.. but still out of habit I'll still probably try it.. this is still more of an experimental build than a serious build

about shield charge, it seems you're right.. i tried not rapid clicking and my misses drastically lessened.. i still miss sometimes but it's probably because of the animations.. i have to get used not rapid clicking

update about char
start of act 3
Spoiler for Hiden:

items:
helm of valholl of the mammoth w/ +2 erebus
deimos
hale of might w/ demons blood
eye of reveries
myrmidons pendant
talisman of jade emperor
Odysseus armor
leggings of the defiled
archmages clasp
it is what it looks like.. with those items, it's OP at least for this stage of the game.. even x3 manticore wasn't a threat.. this will change against x3 Barmannu and x3 Typhon because with the close combat nature of conqueror, there's no way of cheesing them.. i might change some items just for them (equip less damage from beastmen for Barmannu)

conqueror is really boring to play i have to equip a bow (meerkwood) on secondary and be an archer sometimes just to not get bored.. just the same old hack, hack, hack, slash, slash, slash with no variety on playstyle
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Offline tqrunner

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Re: Journal Thread: Hybrid Stat Melee Conqueror
« Reply #14 on: 16 March 2019, 00:41:47 »
Dat name though.

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