Author Topic: Physical Damage from Spells Question  (Read 290 times)

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Offline botebote77

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Physical Damage from Spells Question
« on: 08 January 2019, 23:04:36 »
I've always wondered about this but didn't know how to properly test it:

Does physical damage from spells go through enemy armor?

for sure it doesn't go through enemy DA.. I'm just curious because i have 2 spellcasters that deal good physical damage: mage haruspex (distortion wave and sometimes distort reality) and mage summoner (VO and eruption).. both have at least 500 str and 500 int.. on my mage haruspex, EBD still seems to deal higher damage than physical.. but it's DoT and physical is instant damage.. it's harder to tell on my mage summoner.. EE boosts fire heavily but brimstone + strength of the pack also boosts physical heavily.. plague strips both elemental and physical resists.. i just don't know if physical damage from spells go through enemy armor

someone know how to check in-game mechanics?
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #1 on: 09 January 2019, 00:48:08 »
When i have put floating numbers on my game (without having the need of a critical hit) a few months ago, i tested the reduced armor perk on a melee char. It was a simple test: take a white weapon and socket a relic/charm with XX reduced armor completion. Unfortunately i saw no difference in floating numbers. I expected that the reduced armor effect would take place at the 2nd hit (like a reduced resistance effect) but it seems that the floating number comes from the physical output before any reduced effect is calculated.

With physical damage from a spell, the test would be the same. But since it doesn't work with a melee weapon, i don't see how you can check it directly.
Maybe with logs from TQ defiler ? (i don't use this tool so i am not sure if the logs are good enough: there is no point if floating numbers are registered in these logs).

To my mind, reduced armor effect applies to physical damage from a spell. It seems logical (but well, the game mechanics is so weird  ::) ). What makes me think so is the fact that distortion wave spell does both physical damage and reduced armor effect.
« Last Edit: 09 January 2019, 00:51:26 by Tauceti »

Offline botebote77

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #2 on: 09 January 2019, 01:28:32 »
hmm that's interesting.. i suppose you tested on monsters wearing armors right?
What makes me think so is the fact that distortion wave spell does both physical damage and reduced armor effect.
i thought about this.. but it could also just be a debuff for when you attack with a weapon after.. like flame surge reducing DA.. for me, dream suggests hybrid anyway.. even the melee skills deal vit and EBD

if it goes through armor, then that means it's a chance that it hits torso, head, arms, or legs
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Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #3 on: 09 January 2019, 20:45:57 »
.. both have at least 500 str and 500 int.. on my mage haruspex, EBD still seems to deal higher damage than physical..
Physical distortion wave is around 320 (instant, with chaotic resonance), and electric burn - 750 (over 4 seconds). These are the base damage numbers you scale with %damage and stats. Can be found in the skills screen tooltip. I don't remember the exact numbers though and Titan Calc is not displaying +4 all skills values.

Of course EBD is stronger than physical, about two times stronger if you scale them equally with strength, int and respective %damages.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #4 on: 09 January 2019, 22:19:37 »
that's what i just said.. btw those aren't analytical.. those are just what i see from playing the char

hmm for those curious, i definitely think that stats are better distributed that way for optimization.. it's better to have strength to equip shields and to deal instant damage, and you also can't ignore int for cast speed, recharge, and mana gain.. distortion wave is a very mana hungry skill if used as a spam skill

edit: ah and visor of the shadowlord
« Last Edit: 09 January 2019, 22:34:58 by botebote77 »
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Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #5 on: 10 January 2019, 12:36:31 »
I think in Grim Dawn there is no difference whether a skill has %weapon damage component in it or not. It only affects whether it can carry special effects from the weapon or not. Procs, debuffs, etc. No definite answer for you about this particular game, but I would bet on armor always working.

Offline Tauceti

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #6 on: 10 January 2019, 22:02:35 »
hmm that's interesting.. i suppose you tested on monsters wearing armors right?

Uuh ? all monsters are not supposed to have an armor value ?
When pets are summoned, we can't check it but some pets jewels come with flat armor and the core dweller got a skill that increases its armor too. So i suppose that even beasts have an armor value.

If i remember well, my test was made on turtles and  ichtian monsters along Megara coast.

I would like to know the answer to your question too because one can imagine a special build around that.


Offline WNG

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #7 on: 11 January 2019, 01:47:52 »
hmm that's interesting.. i suppose you tested on monsters wearing armors right?

Uuh ? all monsters are not supposed to have an armor value ?
When pets are summoned, we can't check it but some pets jewels come with flat armor and the core dweller got a skill that increases its armor too. So i suppose that even beasts have an armor value.

If i remember well, my test was made on turtles and  ichtian monsters along Megara coast.

I would like to know the answer to your question too because one can imagine a special build around that.

All monsters, ranging from crows to Typhon, have innate armor.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #8 on: 11 January 2019, 04:57:23 »
All monsters, ranging from crows to Typhon, have innate armor.
even crows.. that's interesting.. even ghosts then

i did a short test using koderkrazy's show damage mod against eldjotuns.. the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and all hits of distortion wave does the same damage.. that still doesn't tell me anything because

When i have put floating numbers on my game (without having the need of a critical hit) a few months ago, i tested the reduced armor perk on a melee char. It was a simple test: take a white weapon and socket a relic/charm with XX reduced armor completion. Unfortunately i saw no difference in floating numbers. I expected that the reduced armor effect would take place at the 2nd hit (like a reduced resistance effect) but it seems that the floating number comes from the physical output before any reduced effect is calculated.
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline icefreeze

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #9 on: 11 January 2019, 07:43:04 »
I just test it and look like the " Degrade armor " works for both physical dmg from weapon attack and skill.

I test at Epic mode, at Spartan Camp, using Distortion Wave lv8( my hero wearing many +skill items) deal 92 dmg, and Chaotic Resonance at lv12( max lv+4) deal 215dmg + degraded 323 armor for 5seconds.
I testing on Archer Satyr( lv43) and Melee Satyr( lv42), need 4 Distortion Wave ( continue, cast right after cooldown zero to get the Degrade Armor effect) to kill one; and if cast Distortion Wave per >5seconds( to Degrade Armor effect run out), need 5 DW to kill one.
With weapon Attack, need 4 weapon attacks right after cast DW( to get degrade armor) to kill one( on melee satyr); and if cast DW then wait for 5seconds( or more) to let Degrade armor effect runs out, need 5 weapon attacks to kill one.
I already calculated the regen health ability of monster before get the results.

And i am modified game.dll file( by koderkrazy instruction) to show allmost dmg; the dmg before and after applies degrade armor effect of DW is the same. So may be the display dmg is before Degrade armor effect works.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #10 on: 11 January 2019, 12:10:32 »
Quote from: icefreeze
I already calculated the regen health ability of monster before get the results.
so do satyrs have innate health regen? because that might be the reason why it took 5 hits to kill
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline icefreeze

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Re: Physical Damage from Spells Question
« Reply #11 on: 11 January 2019, 12:19:08 »
Quote from: icefreeze
I already calculated the regen health ability of monster before get the results.
so do satyrs have innate health regen? because that might be the reason why it took 5 hits to kill
Yes, they have. As i said, health regen of melee Satyr is not fast enough to regen them health enough to take one hit more than attack right after affect Degrade Armor.