Author Topic: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps  (Read 4334 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline botebote77

  • mage boy
  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1359
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +9/-1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #15 on: 17 October 2018, 22:24:20 »
Consider that all mobs get 60% elemental resist in legendary.
that's too high.. that's like boss level resist.. most mobs (if not all), if they have high resist against 1 element, chances are they are weak against another.. fire sprites and fire jotuns are tough against fire but weak against cold.. undeads are weak against fire.. water elementals and monsters like turtles are tough against fire but weak against lightning
« Last Edit: 17 October 2018, 22:25:53 by botebote77 »
i are TQ titans
i are many people

Not Yet Rated!

Offline mammoth_hunter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 261
  • Country: ru
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +3
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #16 on: 06 December 2018, 20:29:38 »
- You can equipped two Green ring which add Monkey King's Trickery and using Throwing Knives to reduced resistances enemies.
Talking about throwing knives, having 160% pierce damage from gear +70% from dexterity, 230% total, and also ultimate level blade honing skill, makes it ~500 damage per hit.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I don't think its reasonable to use it for flat damage yet with these numbers. Not without more of everything, more %pierce and %physical, flat damage from gear, maybe also better debuff like study prey.

It should also be clear that trickster in the OP with just 70% pierce will have absolutely pathetic flat dam.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline botebote77

  • mage boy
  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1359
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +9/-1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #17 on: 06 December 2018, 21:29:56 »
- You can equipped two Green ring which add Monkey King's Trickery and using Throwing Knives to reduced resistances enemies.
glad to see I'm not the only one using this trick.. it makes traps stronger.. i use this trick on my illusionist and one of my dreamkillers.. my dreamkiller has -40 RR flat from 2 monkey kings + twisted coil of the parasite.. also makes distortion wave stronger

btw, rage of ares is very good for str build throwing knife
i are TQ titans
i are many people

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Tauceti

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • Country: fr
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone:  0
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #18 on: 09 December 2018, 14:37:35 »
A great work Mammoth with this guide full of details, like the usefullness of menhir walls + traps. I was first skeptical about poison/bleed efficiency in legendary. I should make a try.
My doubt was about how to spead poison/bleed dots with rogue mastery. So throwing knives is the way to do it ?

What about a melee toon, how would you build it ?

Quote
DOTs in Titan Quest do not stack
Can you give details about this, Your deathweaver's legtip has 3 poison dots on it, they don't stack at all ?

Not Yet Rated!

Offline mammoth_hunter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 261
  • Country: ru
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +3
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #19 on: 09 December 2018, 18:52:24 »
btw, rage of ares is very good for str build throwing knife
If the point is to make a direct damage knife thrower you can just assemble all things Ares then. Blood of Ares, mark of Ares, rage of Ares... pendant of immortal rage.


My doubt was about how to spead poison/bleed dots with rogue mastery. So throwing knives is the way to do it ?
You use one DOT source at a time, out of three (gas bomb, knives, weapon). Since you can not take all the awesome skills right away, you chose what to max first. My advice in the OP was poison gas bomb and traps in normal. Traps because they are needed for immunes and gas bomb because its very efficient in normal (like eruption) for 12 points. Plus weapon with venom sac, shen-nong or whatever else you have. Knives are good for what they do but have to be taken later in that scheme, early to mid epic.


Quote
What about a melee toon, how would you build it ?
What kind of melee? Poison as main would look very much like this trickster, just using melee weapon as main, thats all. Something like physical and pierce melee as main with poison as support might look like a build in the nearby thread.

Quote
Can you give details about this, Your deathweaver's legtip has 3 poison dots on it, they don't stack at all ?
I'm not sure where are all the old mechanics threads now, so talking from memory. Medea might know where she put them, or maybe they are somewhere else too.

Multiple DOTs on a weapon do stack and will appear as a single bigger DOT. But generally DOTs from the same source do not stack. Like multiple hits with the same weapon or different spells cast by the same hero.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline botebote77

  • mage boy
  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1359
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +9/-1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #20 on: 09 December 2018, 23:41:48 »
btw, rage of ares is very good for str build throwing knife
If the point is to make a direct damage knife thrower you can just assemble all things Ares then. Blood of Ares, mark of Ares, rage of Ares... pendant of immortal rage.
i never said you should make it a direct damage knife thrower.. you are missing cast speed already and rune doesn't offer anything for a physical damage knife thrower.. i just said rage of Ares is good for a physical knife thrower.. how other people use that (if they want to) is up to them.. my illusionist for example can deal 3k - 4k with throwing knife and it procs everytime and it even outperforms calculated strike because it's a multi-hit spam skill.. it just uses SB cuffs with rage of ares and 1 mountaineers armor.. but nature has strength of the pack and plague RR

Multiple DOTs on a weapon do stack and will appear as a single bigger DOT. But generally DOTs from the same source do not stack. Like multiple hits with the same weapon or different spells cast by the same hero.
this is true.. and even if you have poison damage from armor, it will stack with the poison from weapon together with poison with envenom because it's from one attack only.. but for example you deal poison from weapon attack, then cast PGB..the poison will not stack.. just the higher damage will apply
i are TQ titans
i are many people

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Tauceti

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • Country: fr
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone:  0
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #21 on: 11 December 2018, 21:47:31 »
ok i have misunderstood the dot stack mechanism.

Quote
Multiple DOTs on a weapon do stack and will appear as a single bigger DOT. But generally DOTs from the same source do not stack. Like multiple hits with the same weapon or different spells cast by the same hero.

I have still a question. So if a Dual wielder hits the target with two poisoned weapons, the stronger dot will apply if the weapons hit the target sucessively. On the other hand what happens when the weapons hit the target on the same time (that is when DW is triggered: 22% chance at lvl 6) ?

Not Yet Rated!

Offline mammoth_hunter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 261
  • Country: ru
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +3
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #22 on: 14 December 2018, 10:27:30 »
I have still a question. So if a Dual wielder hits the target with two poisoned weapons, the stronger dot will apply if the weapons hit the target sucessively. On the other hand what happens when the weapons hit the target on the same time (that is when DW is triggered: 22% chance at lvl 6) ?
I don't think I know for sure about this one, sorry. I couldn't find the DOTs theory posts on this board, that were saved from the old forum, by the way. Maybe they never were.

i never said you should make it a direct damage knife thrower..
Uh I thought you're just throwing ideas around here anyway, not sure what "should" has to mean in this frame. You might, not should?

Quote
you are missing cast speed already and rune doesn't offer anything for a physical damage knife thrower.. i just said rage of Ares is good for a physical knife thrower.. how other people use that (if they want to) is up to them.. my illusionist for example can deal 3k - 4k with throwing knife and it procs everytime and it even outperforms calculated strike because it's a multi-hit spam skill.. it just uses SB cuffs with rage of ares and 1 mountaineers armor.. but nature has strength of the pack and plague RR
Yeah, rage of Ares is nice, I know, but its one proc per flurry of knives cast most of the time, so one 3-4K and many 500 or whatever your number would be. But then in legendary even most feeble mobs need multiple 4K hits before they fall. I don't think rage of Ares on its own is build enabling. You need more flat.

Basic sword with calc strike, top end shield and defense mastery WPS shield attacks does 3-4K on 60% hits except calc strike proc which is 6K for me. Its 2K on normal sword hits - the rest. If I equip a spear it does 10K hits casually instead of 4K, and calc strike is... 25K? Don't remember already. It might be second or third time I'm seriously considering sword as endgame melee weapon by the way, and its not even hybrid of some sort to stack flat elemental or vitality or anything like that. Calculated strike with defense WPS does very well.

Cast speed is a non-issue, base speed is not too slow to begin with and rogues can get themselves 40-50% total speed if you like so.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline icefreeze

  • ??
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: vn
  • Karma: +3/-2
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +7
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #23 on: 18 December 2018, 06:47:56 »
- You can equipped two Green ring which add Monkey King's Trickery and using Throwing Knives to reduced resistances enemies.
Talking about throwing knives, having 160% pierce damage from gear +70% from dexterity, 230% total, and also ultimate level blade honing skill, makes it ~500 damage per hit.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I don't think its reasonable to use it for flat damage yet with these numbers. Not without more of everything, more %pierce and %physical, flat damage from gear, maybe also better debuff like study prey.

It should also be clear that trickster in the OP with just 70% pierce will have absolutely pathetic flat dam.


In the picture above you can see the dmg of Throwing Knife do with and without Blade Horning( all skill max lv +4).
Piercing Dmg bonus from Blade Honing is can bonus from Dex and +% Piercing dmg like Piercing dmg from Throwing Knife. So when buff Blade Honing, Throwing Knife boost by ~38% piercing dmg output.


The picture above is show dmg deal with and without 24 reduced Resistances( from 2 Legendary relics Monkey King's Trickery( 12RR/relic)).
As you can see, the bonus dmg from 24 Reduces Resistances of enemies is very good, especially on Boar( because these boar have very high Piercing Resistance).

P/S: My bad, i fixed the number RR that false from before.
« Last Edit: 19 December 2018, 11:33:17 by icefreeze »

Not Yet Rated!

Offline botebote77

  • mage boy
  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1359
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +9/-1
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #24 on: 19 December 2018, 09:33:03 »
the bigger reason is for traps.. if you pile up reduced resists, it's very noticeable that traps kill faster.. now there's something rune offers for traps, you can go for 3 monkey kings instead of using demons blood.. that could mean -36 flat RR and 78% pierce res

note: 26% pierce res is the standard completion bonus of incarnation of monkey kings trickery
« Last Edit: 19 December 2018, 10:06:53 by botebote77 »
i are TQ titans
i are many people

Not Yet Rated!

Offline mammoth_hunter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 261
  • Country: ru
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +3
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #25 on: 20 December 2018, 15:39:28 »
I have still a question. So if a Dual wielder hits the target with two poisoned weapons, the stronger dot will apply if the weapons hit the target sucessively. On the other hand what happens when the weapons hit the target on the same time (that is when DW is triggered: 22% chance at lvl 6) ?
I think using different weapons by the same character WILL stack DOTs. If you swap weapons and both have poison that should stack. Can't give you any evidence but for all I know that would mean dual wielding different weapons would also stack.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Quaith

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: es
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone:  0
Re: [Guide] Poison and bleed trickster with traps
« Reply #26 on: 11 August 2019, 13:23:04 »
I am very clumsy for this type of game and I still love it ... I try to follow your guide but all the links to the calculator are broken ... can you fix them please?  thanks