Author Topic: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?  (Read 1206 times)

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Offline Laionidas

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Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« on: 08 August 2018, 12:44:41 »
So, I got this artifact on my dual-throw Stonespeaker:



and I got it with the +20% Physical Damage modifier, which isn't too bad, since it's a hybrid, and increased Physical Damage will benefit Elemental damage as well, after conversion.

I can't help but wondering though whether the +25% Attack Speed wouldn't be better, and I've wondered that a lot of times with a lot of artifacts. The +25% Attack Speed modifier seems to always trump all, at least for weapon users, since it benefits all damage types and conversions simultaneously.

Is there a point where the other modifiers become more worthwhile?

Offline botebote77

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #1 on: 08 August 2018, 13:36:46 »
but you probably are dual wielding thrown weapons, right? cap is 141% attack speed? that's very easy to reach.. primal magma alone gives 35% attack speed.. but why Might of Hephaestus? aren't there better artifacts? i mean it's good but you won't benefit from iron fist because it's melee only right?
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Offline Laionidas

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #2 on: 08 August 2018, 13:56:03 »
but you probably are dual wielding thrown weapons, right? cap is 141% attack speed? that's very easy to reach.. primal magma alone gives 35% attack speed.. but why Might of Hephaestus? aren't there better artifacts? i mean it's good but you won't benefit from iron fist because it's melee only right?

Hmmm,.. I only found that out after creating it, but luckily I had my savefile backed up.

I think I'll be better of crafting the Wheel of Taranis for now, and saving my Dragontongue and Heart of Earth, untill I find a recipe for the Eye of Ra.

It's still odd though how much better some Completion Bonusses are compared to others.

Is there a tool to modify/choose/reroll Completion Bonusses? It save the hassle of savegame manipulation.
« Last Edit: 08 August 2018, 14:01:31 by Laionidas »

Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #3 on: 08 August 2018, 14:02:36 »
(Bwah! botebote77 and Laionidas  beat me to it. Your too fast, friends! :P)

Well! Laionidas here’s what I think:

- most of the time you’ll try to get the bonus you need the most. Needless to say it depends on your Mastery Combination and the loot you gather along the way (if you're playing untwinked), here’s some difference between an Avenger an a Stonespeaker:

- an Avenger has no way to slow down enemies (TBO I never used Ensnare in my Immortal Throne days, now with AE it is a possibility). Slow is a big deal in any good hack’n’slash, if you can slow monsters down you lower their DPS, thus increasing your survivability. This is also why a Holy Freeze mercenary was such a coveted hireling in Diablo 2 lod. On the other hand a Stormcaller doesn’t care much about slow: he’s got Heart of Frost in the Storm Nimbus tree,

- Stonespeakers -like Stormcallers- too have a way to slow down monsters with Energy Drain in the Rune Weapon tree (Storm has a bigger bonus though). to rephrase what Firebrand once said, the Rune Weapon tree gives you almost everything you want,

- now like botebote77 said, the level cap is reached easily. Granted early game Speed is at premium, but late game you’ll reach the cap. Then you have the harsh requirement of Might of Hephaestus: LV 50! By that time you’ve already found all the speed you need from other items/skills, 

- finally there’s the nerf on the Skill granted by Might of Hephaestus in the Anniversary Edition:

Depending on your version of Titan Quest, Iron Fist actually works completely differently:

# Immortal Throne (original version): in this version Iron Fist DOES NOT work at all,

# Immortal Throne + Fanpatch 1.17: the granted skill works very well. This includes Melee and even Spells. This what made this Divine Artifacts so attractive (at least for me). I mean the granted skills proces a lot and you don't need to assign the skill on LBM, it works automatically,

# Anniversary Edition: in this version you are forced to assign the granted skill to your LMB! So it cannot proc with spells anymore (like Eruption, Volcanic Orb). This is somewhat sad but I guess I do understand the idea of the developers behind this nerf: indeed the tooltip of Iron Fist says “builds up the melee power of the player to epic proportions”, so now the skill works as intended (a melee bonus that is).
« Last Edit: 08 August 2018, 14:14:13 by CrocMagnum »

Offline WNG

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #4 on: 08 August 2018, 14:13:46 »
There is an artifact that has +210 Energy and +250 Energy has completion bonuses. I don't get this one.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #5 on: 08 August 2018, 14:52:23 »
holy freeze mercenary.. damn right.. but i always preferred the lightning act 3 mercenary because it's the flashiest looking mercenary in the game

i remember when i was completing Gambanteinn for my elemental conversion dreamkiller.. i want to get 15% attack speed completion bonus obviously but i worry i wouldn't get it.. so i thought about backing up my save files and doing it over and over again until i get it.. but bah I've done that many times in diablo 2 and though that was long ago, i feel now that my strongest characters were cheats

so i thought about outright changing the completion bonus through TQvault (the program allows that i think).. but meh what's the difference? I've never done that and I'm not about to.. so i decided to just  complete it and I'll just go with whatever bonus i get.. lo and behold i got attack speed.. God has answered my prayers :)

I mean the granted skills proces a lot and you don't need to assign the skill on LBM, it works automatically,
why would you assign it to LBM? loose bowel movement? diarrhea works automatically? that's terrible
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #6 on: 08 August 2018, 15:43:57 »
(about Iron Fist) why would you assign it to LBM? loose bowel movement? diarrhea works automatically? that's terrible

In AE you are FORCED to assign Iron Fist to LMB if you want to benefit from it, no way around it. Thing is Laionidas is probably using the Rune Weapon Tree as LBM so it's even worse to forfeit Rune Weapon (it has so much utility) to Iron Fist. So I agree with you botebote77, in AE Might of Hephaestus is not attractive anymore.

holy freeze mercenary.. damn right.. but i always preferred the lightning act 3 mercenary because it's the flashiest looking mercenary in the game

I liked the Act III Merc a lot too, but they're not the most popular. ^^ Also the Lightning Merc deals the least damage, Fire and Cold are better. Especially the Cold one because he can freeze stuff; and sometimes he could block your way by freezing monsters in tight corridors.  :-\

Holy Freeze was indeed dope in D2, maybe except for a Necro Summoner. Holy Freeze shatter corpses and the necro need those bodies to raise his skeletons and his revives. :P
« Last Edit: 08 August 2018, 15:48:03 by CrocMagnum »

Offline botebote77

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #7 on: 08 August 2018, 16:03:46 »
my joke went potatoes.. i meant you typed it as LBM instead of LMB

LMB - Left Mouse Button
LBM - Loose Bowel Movement (diarrhea)

act 3 lightning merc are probably the weakest but they're the coolest looking merc
« Last Edit: 08 August 2018, 16:07:00 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #8 on: 08 August 2018, 16:07:45 »
my joke went potatoes...

Woops! I can't believe I missed that one.

Good joke though. ;D


Offline tholuneve

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #9 on: 09 August 2018, 03:37:20 »
 and increased Physical Damage will benefit Elemental damage as well, after conversion.

Increased physical damage will not benefit the converted elemental damage, neither will strength.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #10 on: 09 August 2018, 03:56:50 »
Might of Hephaestus @CrocMagnum

i remember i completed this artifactbefore for testing purposes.. so i tested it again and:

yep it doesn't work with ranged weapons
it doesn't work with bare hands
it has 120sec cooldown
you are not forced to bind it to LMB.. it is not a proc skill anymore.. it is an active skill now which makes it less desirable.. cooldown of granted skills doesn't scale with cooldown reduction so you are forced to wait for 120 sec before it's ready again.. you can bind it to RMB or any number skill slot.. if you bind it to LMB, you have no control of when it triggers.. since it has high damage with long cooldown, it may be best used as an emergency skill against bosses
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Laionidas

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #11 on: 09 August 2018, 09:59:16 »
Might of Hephaestus @CrocMagnum

i remember i completed this artifactbefore for testing purposes.. so i tested it again and:

yep it doesn't work with ranged weapons
it doesn't work with bare hands
it has 120sec cooldown
you are not forced to bind it to LMB.. it is not a proc skill anymore.. it is an active skill now which makes it less desirable.. cooldown of granted skills doesn't scale with cooldown reduction so you are forced to wait for 120 sec before it's ready again.. you can bind it to RMB or any number skill slot.. if you bind it to LMB, you have no control of when it triggers.. since it has high damage with long cooldown, it may be best used as an emergency skill against bosses

Well, it makes sense; the damage is quite insane, so if it would be under no-cooldown LMB it would be way overpowered for melee characters.

Offline CrocMagnum

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #12 on: 09 August 2018, 13:12:16 »
Might of Hephaestus @CrocMagnum

i remember i completed this artifactbefore for testing purposes.. so i tested it again and:

yep it doesn't work with ranged weapons
it doesn't work with bare hands
it has 120sec cooldown
you are not forced to bind it to LMB.. it is not a proc skill anymore.. it is an active skill now which makes it less desirable.. cooldown of granted skills doesn't scale with cooldown reduction so you are forced to wait for 120 sec before it's ready again.. you can bind it to RMB or any number skill slot.. if you bind it to LMB, you have no control of when it triggers.. since it has high damage with long cooldown, it may be best used as an emergency skill against bosses

Ouch! Thanks for the correction, botebote77. I only need to add that in old version the cooldown was only 90 sec. *nerf*


Offline Hector

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #13 on: 10 August 2018, 18:06:13 »
Not only imbalanced, but completely unfair as well.. just look at the flat poison damage bonus and tell me this is not some BS to force the player into an unnecessary, time consuming hard labor.. trying to catch one of the useful bonuses by creating the same artifact again and again..

During this process, I mean by grinding (or farming, whatever the hell it is called), the player does something which is actually closer to cheating.. you over-level in the process, become stronger than you're supposed to be and ruin the challenge all together.. in most of the showcase videos that I watch, the only thing I see is a char with blinding speed and godly attacks, decimating anything in his/her path without breaking a sweat.. this sorta thing has never been and will never be my play style in this or any other game.. but everyone is entitled to their opinion in the end.. I'm just stating which I feel is true..

In my belief, when I use TQ Vault in order to give a char the completion bonus he needs, I actually manage to keep the flow of challenge.. he doesn't become absurdly stronger, just gains something he needs in the right time in order to be able to move forward..

Offline WNG

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Re: Artifact Completion Bonusses,.. imbalanced?
« Reply #14 on: 10 August 2018, 20:15:14 »
Not only imbalanced, but completely unfair as well.. just look at the flat poison damage bonus and tell me this is not some BS to force the player into an unnecessary, time consuming hard labor.. trying to catch one of the useful bonuses by creating the same artifact again and again..

During this process, I mean by grinding (or farming, whatever the hell it is called), the player does something which is actually closer to cheating.. you over-level in the process, become stronger than you're supposed to be and ruin the challenge all together.. in most of the showcase videos that I watch, the only thing I see is a char with blinding speed and godly attacks, decimating anything in his/her path without breaking a sweat.. this sorta thing has never been and will never be my play style in this or any other game.. but everyone is entitled to their opinion in the end.. I'm just stating which I feel is true..

In my belief, when I use TQ Vault in order to give a char the completion bonus he needs, I actually manage to keep the flow of challenge.. he doesn't become absurdly stronger, just gains something he needs in the right time in order to be able to move forward..

While I sort of agree, doing something that the game doesn't allow you to do (in this case, choose the bonus so it fits better your class) is cheating, by definition.

Now, I understand how people may find that completion bonus system flawed and unfair, since many bonuses are generally useless. For example, who is crafting Blood of Ares for a mediocre poison DoT?

I guess this is the grindy part of TQ. Every ARPG needs one. PoE has six-linking. GD also has his set of artefacts.


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