Author Topic: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon  (Read 1302 times)

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Offline Laionidas

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HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« on: 16 May 2018, 12:40:06 »
I am completely puzzled here, since I never had any issues with Typhon, and especially my Diviner just steamrolled him on Epic. Yet, my most tanky character yet, gets killed instantly almost every single time. Scrolls don't help, charms and relics don't help, over-levelled gear doesn't help, pots don't help, shrines don't help, tactics don't help,.. I've been stuck on this for a week and spent millions of gold allready. My poison resistance is low, but I've consistently been able to dodge his poison attacks (it's quite an easy one to dodge in fact). I tried switching weapon types, armour, artifacts, everything. What am I missing here?

Spoiler for MY EQUIPMENT OF MY LATEST FAILED ATTEMPT:
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Also, is there perhaps anyone who could help me take him down co-op?


Offline MedeaFleecestealer

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #1 on: 16 May 2018, 12:58:21 »
Equip a bow, potshot him and run back down the ramp, rinse and repeat until done.  Slow but safe.

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #2 on: 16 May 2018, 13:05:50 »
Are you doing any melee damage at all? It must be low. I'd relocate some points from adrenaline etc defense skills into plague and max susceptibility to increase your dps by 1,5, whatever you're doing it with.

Offline Laionidas

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #3 on: 16 May 2018, 13:34:16 »
The DPS has been fine so far, against any boss and any regular group of mobs. I think my Diviner did even less. The problem is he leeches back more than he takes in damage, even with my 80% resistance, and Wolves are just useless against Typhon.

Realocating skillpoints is an option, but not one I particularly like. It feels a bit like messing with my build, even if I use the ingame point reallocater. For a true build alteration it seems fine, but doing it just for a single boss feels a bit like cheating, or at least breaking the build. I also doubt a bit more DPS is going to make the difference. I can get him down to 20~30% health just fine, by means of an initial burst, and I even tried increasing that initial burst damage by going all-out on DPS, but I just can't seem to get past a certain point.

Equip a bow, potshot him and run back down the ramp, rinse and repeat until done.  Slow but safe.

Oof,.. does that work, doesn't he regen a bit when I'm on the ramp? My DPS will be insanely low after all.

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #4 on: 16 May 2018, 14:41:54 »
The problem is he leeches back more than he takes in damage, even with my 80% resistance, and Wolves are just useless against Typhon.
The goal is to do more damage to him inbetween leeches than he leeches back. Susceptibility does just that and -50% phys resistance is one of the biggest boosts to DPS you can get with your build. Its by no means "a bit more". Strength of the pack is another option, probably weaker though, depending on your stats.

Edit: I think 1,5K DPS in the stats panel is a more appropriate number when you're melee in epic. Achilles, Heracles, Ares, raptor tooth have +% physical damage or can get it as completion, some can also get attack speed. Of the winds rare shields have attack speed. I suggest you revise your gear and decide where you can improve that, in addition to plague. I think you are mostly lacking attack speed though. Average damage number = dps number, 99% as, thats not very good.
« Last Edit: 16 May 2018, 15:11:09 by mammoth_hunter »

Offline gasconron

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #5 on: 16 May 2018, 17:23:02 »
you have a very high HP tool and have access to one of the best boss killing skills by the name of Colossus. With applied Plague for the -% damage resist debuff + spamming Pulverize this fight shouldn't even last 20 secs if your gear is up to par.

  • with balanced resists the fire, lightning & poison damage he does is negligible, yet your resist levels are abysmally laughable by late Epic standards
  • you can invest on life leech and mana leech resist as they would help greatly for this fight, while they do very little to minimize the damage you take, it affects the gains Typhon gets from you.
  • the only viable threat to you are the meteors
  • looking at your gear and being that you are already in Epic Act 3 > Practically Act 4, barely equipped with Legendaries or higher-end Epics if you are playing untwinked, just shows me how ill-prepared you are for this fight... instead of spending that week trying again and again in fruitless endeavor better put that time into farming better Equipment.
  • you are a primary defender with Heart of the Oak active, and you only net ~5k HP...

You need to respect the AE buffs. Playing as a primary "tank-and-spank" toon you need High HP, decent DA, decent resists; all of which are absent in your current setup. I run ~7k HP on Warfare/Defense based melee (my Conqueror has ~10k with Sapros on), ~5.5-6k on Rogue hit and run type melees and 4.5-5k on Mage Melee Hybrids. You scale purely off STR and HP and you have ~545 Str and 5k HP with HotO active. Your stats speak for themselves and there should be no wonder why this fight is hard for you. It's not a matter of tactics or what-not you're just not prepared for it enough.
« Last Edit: 16 May 2018, 17:50:33 by gasconron »

Offline Laionidas

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #6 on: 16 May 2018, 22:13:17 »
@gasconron I get what you're saying, but so far I've had nor problems with this character, or even other characters in Legendary, with similar or worse gear, and having never used a single Charm or Relic before. This character too, effortlessly walked past everything so far. Most of the time, I even kept about 10~15 skillpoints unspent. It makes absolutely no sense to me, that he would struggle so much, just with Typhon.

Regarding Typhon's attacks, I allready stated that I'm not getting hit by his fire, lightning or poison attacks, and most certainly not the meteors. They're the easiest to dodge of all, and you can just spam at his side, while he is casting them. The problem is purely the life leech and non-elemental damage. He gains more than I can damage him, and after maybe 15 minutes of not dying, he just needs one lucky shot.

Finally, I am not playing a 'primary "tank-and-spank" toon'. Pets are a major part of this build, thus them being useless against Typhon is a problem. I really wonder how other Wolves & Nymph builds are dealing with this.

The goal is to do more damage to him inbetween leeches than he leeches back. Susceptibility does just that and -50% phys resistance is one of the biggest boosts to DPS you can get with your build. Its by no means "a bit more". Strength of the pack is another option, probably weaker though, depending on your stats.

Edit: I think 1,5K DPS in the stats panel is a more appropriate number when you're melee in epic. Achilles, Heracles, Ares, raptor tooth have +% physical damage or can get it as completion, some can also get attack speed. Of the winds rare shields have attack speed. I suggest you revise your gear and decide where you can improve that, in addition to plague. I think you are mostly lacking attack speed though. Average damage number = dps number, 99% as, thats not very good.

99% Attack Speed is because I tried swapping to mace. Before that I was using a spear which was at about 120~130% without SotP active (I have SotP allready, and its AS buff doesn't increase past one point). The DPS in the panel is a bit finicky, as it doesn't consider the damage from either shield procs or pets at all. You may have a point though, I switched to a lower power spare shield to stack it with Embodiment of the Aegis of Athena. Maybe I should get my full power shield back, get the vitality resist somewhere else, and pick some crap but fast main weapon, to maximise shield-proc output. I could even borrow a shield from my Diviner.
« Last Edit: 16 May 2018, 22:20:21 by Laionidas »

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #7 on: 16 May 2018, 22:23:57 »
Regarding Typhon's attacks, I allready stated that I'm not getting hit by his fire, lightning or poison attacks, and most certainly not the meteors. They're the easiest to dodge of all, and you can just spam at his side, while he is casting them. The problem is purely the life leech and non-elemental damage. He gains more than I can damage him, and after maybe 15 minutes of not dying, he just needs one lucky shot.
That means your dps is the problem, no? With either pets or melee.

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Finally, I am not playing a 'primary "tank-and-spank" toon'. Pets are a major part of this build, thus them being useless against Typhon is a problem. I really wonder how other Wolves & Nymph builds are dealing with this.
I don't think melee with pets is a good idea without battle standard, self-found and without Ragnarok. As a summoner you need 4 items with pet damage, two rings, neckace and a staff. Always four, and up to date. You are lacking staff, even if your jewellery has it. Champion can compensate it with battle standard, though you will also need enough -recharge to use it. Others can get some new ragnarok str based armor pieces with pet damage on them to replace staff.

I tried a melee summoner like this in IT, with just pet jewellery and a spear, and was dissatisfied with it. Wolves fall behind in damage and the character can't do much in melee either. Jack of all trades.

My petmancer is not too far from legendary Typhon, I can show it if you wish. Full summoner, recently equipped all the gear I was storing for her though. Steamrolling, but expect to slow down in acts IV-V.

Offline Laionidas

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #8 on: 16 May 2018, 22:58:19 »
Hmmm,.. my melee Diviner also has pets and she's fiiiiiine liek,..  ;D

Anyway, I doubt a full-time 4-item petmaster would not have them dying like that.

DPS is a problem perhaps. With 3000+ DPS I'd probably knock him out cold, but I did the gear-borrow trick, and boosted my panel DPS to about 1000~1100 without buffs (which is fair I think),.. it doesn't do much. All elemental and poison resists are not at around 40% too. I get him down to 20~30% he starts spamming life leech on either me and/or my pets, and replenishes himself to above 50% health. If I ditch the pets completely for the fight he leeches slightly less, but he also takes less.

I'll try again tomorrow, try getting him down to 20~30% again, then sit on the ramp and spam refresh, untill Colossal Form has fully cooled down. Alternatively, I can just run doughnust for 10 minutes. If I manage to keep him at 20~30% untill all skills are available again, I think I should manage that last 20~30%.

Offline Tauceti

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #9 on: 16 May 2018, 23:25:40 »
I don't see well the pics, it seems that you don't have any points in the plague tree ?

If so, max out the whole plague tree and colossus too, it will resolve your survivability and dps problems.
If you have a toon in legendary, you can get from him any weapon of the betrayer.
Pets won't help that much here if you don't invest heavily in their trees with the good gear. They are helpfull for trash mobs but not for boss if their trees are not maxed.
Plague+Colossus+Betrayer/any good weapon+All shields passives: Typhon will die in seconds.

Edit: don't forget to go and take the battle marker shrine, the time Typhon gets his thorns down. It greatly helps the encounter.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2018, 00:26:27 by Tauceti »

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #10 on: 17 May 2018, 01:33:37 »
Hmmm,.. my melee Diviner also has pets and she's fiiiiiine liek,..
Nature is not spirit. Nature summoner is made like I described above. Was it a caster with pets? Summoner does all the damage through pets.

Your plan of build developement is wrong. If you stumble at walls like this, its a good time to get rid of that plan and make a new one. But full summoner with defense is not easy, most optimal and straighforward is a melee that uses pets for buffs only. Wolves at 7 pt and maxed strength of the pack. Plague for debuff, nymph for overgrowth, refresh to reset cooldown skills. Like a popular ranger.

Quote
Anyway, I doubt a full-time 4-item petmaster would not have them dying like that



26 seconds, 0 wolves died, no scrolls used for clear reference, stalwart alliance scroll could have improved that. I'll leave gears and stats for tomorrow, its late here
« Last Edit: 17 May 2018, 01:38:07 by mammoth_hunter »

Offline Laionidas

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #11 on: 17 May 2018, 10:16:48 »
Nope Diviner was a physical melee Diviner with pets.

I have no problem changing plans, but I do have an issue changing an entire build because of what is essentially not a wall, but just a single collumn. Like I said, I have not had problems with this character before, and I have not had problems with other similar characters after. The problems is purely the life leech, and if you look at the video you posted, you will see that Typhon doesn't life leech a single time in the whole video, whereas in my case, he just spams it. I thought the solution would be to stack vitality resistance, but even with that at 80%, he just leeches how much he wants.

Plague is something I'd try, but what worries me is that it is 17 points (maxed core skill and maxed Susceptability) for full duration -39% physical resistance, while the poison damage, and poison and elemental debuffs are just wasted on this build.

In any case, it's not that I don't appreciate the suggestions, but significantly changing the build is not something I want to do. I am sure it would work, and that a petless melee Guardian could deal with Typhon just fine, but I might as well trash this character then since the reason I created him was to have pets and shield. I just want to get past Typhon, and then get on with my build as intended.

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #12 on: 17 May 2018, 12:19:55 »
I have no problem changing plans, but I do have an issue changing an entire build because of what is essentially not a wall, but just a single collumn. Like I said, I have not had problems with this character before, and I have not had problems with other similar characters after.
This is not going to work and it does not matter that you can kill trash mobs with it. It will fail even more either in A4 or legendary unless you either get damage for your pets or buff your character to appropriate melee.

Quote
Plague is something I'd try, but what worries me is that it is 17 points (maxed core skill and maxed Susceptability) for full duration -39% physical resistance, while the poison damage, and poison and elemental debuffs are just wasted on this build.
I'm surprised you hesitate, just grab it asap whatever you do. What do you mean wasted? The skill is designed to be usable for three damage types, you just pick and use one, or have you seen a physical/elemental/poison build anywhere in TQ?

I don't think you need all these pet skills, you can readily throw out maul and nature's wrath. I tried nature wrath at low pt investment and it did almost nothing - since chanelog says it was buffed I suppose it has to be either maxed or not taken at all. Even maxed it would better suit a druid being elemental damage. Nymph don't need all the skill points really, her damage comes from your jewellery, she's fragile but avoids melee and almost never dies. I'd remove most of points from adrenaline too at least for now, regen won't help you as much as what was suggested here, plague first of all, and duration gain is not that great to have it early.





Here is my current

the plan I have +5 nature so saving final points to use elsewhere.





Chest and helm are quest enchanted with extra stats (cold/light resistance and CC resistances and flat hp with reduced requirements). Necklace with allfather's of convocation might be difficult to find. Staff with allfather's of focus shouldn't be that rare but I never seen it so far.

Ritualist is good at layering defenses. There is plague that cuts physical damage by 50% (almost all melee damage is physical anyway). Then multiple % damage absorption that is again cutting all damage and stacks multiplicatively with plague. If it works like in GD they should stack multiplicatively with each other too. Sanctuary, trance of convalescence and distortion field. Whats left has to go through both armor and flat absorption. Flat absorption is like armor but absorbs all damage types. Overgrowth has some, distortion field has some (Overgrowth should be at level 9 - I am using a few extra + nature items for summoning to up the ranks of nymph and nightmare and all the pet skills). Then mobs even in Olympus hit like wet noodle.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2018, 12:32:05 by mammoth_hunter »

Offline gasconron

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #13 on: 17 May 2018, 15:12:32 »
Regarding Typhon's attacks, I allready stated that I'm not getting hit by his fire, lightning or poison attacks, and most certainly not the meteors. They're the easiest to dodge of all, and you can just spam at his side, while he is casting them. The problem is purely the life leech and non-elemental damage. He gains more than I can damage him, and after maybe 15 minutes of not dying, he just needs one lucky shot.

Finally, I am not playing a 'primary "tank-and-spank" toon'. Pets are a major part of this build, thus them being useless against Typhon is a problem. I really wonder how other Wolves & Nymph builds are dealing with this.

Like another person has stated, this is equivalent to "you lack damage" at higher difficulties especially when running an unoptimized setup boss fights will tend to be a battle of attrition, and the scenario you are describing will always happen. This is especially true if you are running a pet dependent build, in which case you build yourself to outlast bosses, while buffing your pets damage... this means high armor, high HP, high res, low cooldowns and Ritualist/Wraithlord prefix gear (minimum of 2: rings, max of 4: +amulet & staff). Nature Pets tendency to wipe on most boss fights is not something new nor is there any work around for it which is why cooldowns, +skills and pet stat gear are important.

Define and ask yourself "where do I want my main damage to come from"? Pets or myself? One will inevitably be sacrificed there is no middle ground. Even the most optimized Nature based pets were okay at best in VANILLA Immortal Throne unmodded gameplay and shitty in xmax or harder modded games. With the AE buffs bumping Boss stats and resists Nature based pet builds literally got shat on. You have to go all out on either Melee or pets, and just have the other as supplementary damage. From your setup there doesn't seem to be a clear definition on what your primary damage is; best if you adjust based on what people have told you here.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2018, 15:58:46 by gasconron »

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: HELP, can't beat Epic Typhon
« Reply #14 on: 18 May 2018, 14:26:04 »
Don't know what is there to achieve with just two pet items but I won't be the person who advised that  :). Pet stats were added to some of the old items too. Off the top of my head I can remember Nemean lion braces. If you are going to do pets maybe its worth checking the database for more.

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