Author Topic: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith  (Read 4205 times)

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Offline Cleglaw

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #15 on: 17 January 2018, 21:38:17 »
It ought to work on shields, because they also count as weapons (and as armor).

Besides most shield attacks hit with both the shield and weapon.
oh.. now I'm inclined to test this.. if this is true, cleglaw and pazuzu's stat allocation is wrong  >:D
Why do you say that?
« Last Edit: 17 January 2018, 21:41:49 by Cleglaw »
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Offline botebote77

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #16 on: 17 January 2018, 21:52:05 »
nah it was just a quick assessment without much thought.. now that i think a little more, i probably would go hybrid if it was me.. i edited my comment

edit: not because of transmutation.. i probably would still ignore transmutation.. but because of int items like archmages clasp to be able to almost spam thunder strike and cast colossus more often.. maybe also seal of fate since runesmith is a good tank already and it might be a good boss killer.. demon skin walkers is also an option but i don't have 1.. int would not be wasted because of rune weapon/magical charge
« Last Edit: 17 January 2018, 22:38:37 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Cleglaw

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #17 on: 22 January 2018, 01:37:30 »


Seal of Fate: Great skill. Fits well with defense. Max Aftershock 1st.

It is not a great skill. It is an incredibly great skill.  It enables you to get a substantial amount of health back from a construct or an undead boss for a couple of swings after the seal detonates -- like Epic Talos or that epic undead dragon at the end of that cave before you get to the Jade Palace portal.
The last dying words of Dominique Bouhours, French grammarian
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Offline Hector

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #18 on: 16 June 2018, 06:41:52 »
I am not not using batter and shield charge. It is unneeded because the passives are continually kicking in.

I didn't comment on the Rune Weapon line. There is a significant damage boost. There is lots of retaliation damage that helps kill quickly even with low level characters. There is energy leach, ADCtH, reduced enemy offense and speed. What's not to like? The %intelligence boost helps with the elemental damage, and helps with energy regen. I have no complaints about the skill line.

Quite honestly this is the first time I am enjoying a Defense toon. If the old forum were still around, you'd see my disparaging remarks about how boring it is to play a Conqueror.

I don't want to necro this but you exaggerated a bit too much here.. ADCtH on the skill is only a mere 4% and even when coupled with an Anubis charm or ~feasting suffix on the weapon, it is still nothing.. it absolutely makes no visible difference.. In my game, the other skills in the tree are maxed except the base skill which is 7 for now and I have a folg with double affixes plus tons of elemental damage bonus on my char's gear AND IT STILL DOES NOTHING in terms of leeching some visible amounts of life back.. In my view, at least a 20% ADCtH is needed in order to JUST FEEL the desired effect..
 
Health regeneration strategy as an alternative is always much more reliable IMO thanks to not having to care for leeching anything from undead and constructions and in this case; thanks to defense mastery as well .. I have a completed Viny Growth charm on my character with the health regeneration completion bonus and it is all needed in order to benefit from adrenaline + rally combo.. I have +3 skills so they all are just at 4 right now and I'm not using any health potions in Act V normal.. and mind you, Normal is usually harder than Epic due to still being in the "squishy" phase as a warrior..

Both Reduced Offensive Ability & Slowed% (especially the latter) portions of the skill are also worthless unless you max it or at least get it close to max level and complement it by carrying some of the same effect on your gear.. but investing in this skill, especially early on, is a very bad idea since runesmith has a lot of much more important skills to cover beforehand compared to both energy drain and even the base skill itself..

One last thing... IMO, Seal of Fate is not a great skill, and definitely not an incredibly great skill at all.. the stupid delay factor is simply killing its very purpose.. I've seen some heroes and other special mid-bosses actively evaded its circle as if they were controlled by another player..
The small radius, the inconsistency of its aggro element (from the same distance, sometimes it debuffs enemies without alarming them, whereas other times it immediately aggros everything BEFORE EXPLODING), and the frustration of repeatedly trying to hit some greater enemies again and again to no avail while kiting like crazy is more than enough to call this one a "bad skill" in my book.. Sometimes I really crave for Squall whenever I play with this char..
« Last Edit: 16 June 2018, 07:18:23 by Hector »

Offline botebote77

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #19 on: 16 June 2018, 08:55:54 »
since this had been necroed already, i just want to give one more big smiley face to this:
Quite honestly this is the first time I am enjoying a Defense toon. If the old forum were still around, you'd see my disparaging remarks about how boring it is to play a Conqueror.
;D

Sometimes I really crave for Squall whenever I play with this char..
how do i give 10 likes to this comment? :)

one thought on the life steal from rune weapon.. life steal scales with ones damage so maybe on higher levels, the damage would be noticeable? of course i can't say because i don't have a runesmith and i don't even play pure melee builds anymore.. also rune weapon is an aura and you get it's effects as long as the aura is active, so maybe a runesmith can steal more life by alternating rune weapon with thunder strike and shield charge.. but then again it goes contrary with this:
I am not not using batter and shield charge. It is unneeded because the passives are continually kicking in.
you'll still steal more life from the shield attack procs though.. but if it's enough, that is another question

also seal of fate isn't useless.. cast it on surtr, summon guardian stones, then run away.. it doesn't look like what a runesmith would do but other builds can have a use of it
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #20 on: 16 June 2018, 22:32:47 »
Yeah man I hear you, but how many stationary enemies do you encounter in this game? Surtr, for one.. that sea creature in Corinth, what was its name, Ketos?? any other? ok lets also count enormous bosses since they usually move slow..

Now what about the rest of the enemies? I mean like 95% of them.. I tried to control and contain enemy groups via Menhir wall before casting this skill, hoping that they get stuck where they stand before they start approaching my location and get caught in the explosion this way but some of them just magically phase through the wall by simply running into it while others smack it down in the blink of an eye.. and I don't have any other CC method in my mind to keep them in their place.. if you have any, please share with me :(

The skill's radius is miserable and the delay should absolutely go.. for these reasons, I still think the skill is simply the result of a bad game design (though the amount of debuff it applies is really really strong, I gotta admit that)..

BTW, since you mentioned shield procs and AOE attacks... no man, despite their bigger potential and hitting more than one enemy to gain more life in theory, the results are still terrible.. the amount of damage you receive while gaining maybe just a 1/10 of it back in the process will simply result in drinking that damn potion.. no stability, no benefit, nothing...
« Last Edit: 16 June 2018, 22:57:13 by Hector »

Offline botebote77

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #21 on: 17 June 2018, 00:41:59 »
keep enemies stationary... hmm how about making yourself stationary.. have you read my skinchanger guide? :)  i only have it at 1pt each though and i only use it against bosses and select stationary mobs like night mistress? was it called? those draining mana in act 4

mobs magically phasing through the wall.. wow Laionidas said the same thing

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=469.msg5093#msg5093
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline botebote77

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #22 on: 19 June 2018, 01:05:34 »
@Hector late answer regarding ADCTH.. I'm just remembering some of my experiences with some of my melee characters back when i was still playing them.. may or may not be informative...

ADCTH has always been a must for my melee chars but only starting late epic.. 4 AE characters of mine that all uses ADCTH:

bonecharmer (melee/non-ragnarok) - with just 1 incarnation of Anubis wrath, i steal truck loads of health.. with ultimate max necrosis, combined with permanent call of the hunt and unearthly power, i can fully replenish my health with 1 to 2 hits.. that's counting volley procs.. DPS i think was about 9k

assassin (this was a long time ago before it got weird/better ;) ) - dual wielder.. both weapons have anubis wrath.. life steal was not as huge as bonecharmer's but almost as good because of rapid attacks and 99% of attacks critting.. would never have survived legendary without it

sorcerer (mage) - not melee but life steal from elemental rage works with throwing knife.. being a glass cannon, it's obvious i also can't survive legendary without it.. life steal from one projectile is puny but because it's a multi fast attack, i can facetank most mobs with not much kiting

illusionist - the least life steal of the 4.. i tried high DA first (at about 1k give or take/argonauts set) and it helped.. i tried throwing knife next with phobos and deimos (10% ADCTH set bonus).. DA got down to 600 but i like it better.. more right clicks but less running

tldr: 20% life steal may not be necessary provided you deal high enough damage whether single target attacks or rapid multi attacks.. and also if you have necrosis
« Last Edit: 19 June 2018, 01:47:56 by botebote77 »
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #23 on: 11 July 2018, 06:09:15 »
Since I still play with my warden who is now in legendary, I'd like to drop a few criticisms (yeah that's the usual me,eh?) about quick recovery here;

I think overrated should be the most defining word here.. most people seem to praise it like it is a miraculously powerful lifesaving/preserving utility.. I have been experimenting with it recently and I can easily say I have never ever needed this skill even in the tightest spots, dangerously crowded sections.. when you have max pierce resistance, high armor value (together with extra absorption) and great panic skills such as rally, not even the rain of arrows from machae archers make this skill a necessity.. and if I'm to receive serious damage despite having all these, I receive that serious damage regardless of this skill is up or not at that moment..

I think what most people seem to overlook in this case is, almost every attack type that is deadly to even well built chars is something that shields can't block anyway.. huge AOEs, breath attacks, instant life reducers and so on...
Your 17897298347982748% block chance and almost zero recovery time is not gonna save you from the real dangers of this game.. so what is the point of placing this much value to this "mediocre at best" skill and considering it as it is in the same league with bad boys such as battle standard, colossus form or call of the hunt?..

I guess the only sensible scenario where one can actually benefit from this skill is equipping low level, shitty shields (but with other good stats to compensate its inadequate block chance) and raising the low block chance to a decent rate via this skill + focus from battle awareness.. BTW, good luck with building all that CDR while sacrificing other important stats to keep it active most of the time.. ::)
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 06:38:13 by Hector »

Offline tholuneve

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #24 on: 11 July 2018, 06:55:02 »
Since I still play with my warden who is now in legendary, I'd like to drop a few criticisms (yeah that's the usual me,eh?) about quick recovery here;

I think overrated should be the most defining word here.. most people seem to praise it like it is a miraculously powerful lifesaving/preserving utility.. I have been experimenting with it recently and I can easily say I have never ever needed this skill even in the tightest spots, dangerously crowded sections.. when you have max pierce resistance, high armor value (together with extra absorption) and great panic skills such as rally, not even the rain of arrows from machae archers make this skill a necessity.. and if I'm to receive serious damage despite having all these, I receive that serious damage regardless of this skill is up or not at that moment..

I think what most people seem to overlook in this case is, almost every attack type that is deadly to even well built chars is something that shields can't block anyway.. huge AOEs, breath attacks, instant life reducers and so on...
Your 17897298347982748% block chance and almost zero recovery time is not gonna save you from the real dangers of this game.. so what is the point of placing this much value to this "mediocre at best" skill and considering it as it is in the same league with bad boys such as battle standard, colossus form or call of the hunt?..

I guess the only sensible scenario where one can actually benefit from this skill is equipping low level, shitty shields (but with other good stats to compensate its inadequate block chance) and raising the low block chance to a decent rate via this skill + focus from battle awareness.. BTW, good luck with building all that CDR while sacrificing other important stats to keep it active most of the time.. ::)

Totally agreed.

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #25 on: 11 July 2018, 11:06:03 »
Since I still play with my warden who is now in legendary, I'd like to drop a few criticisms (yeah that's the usual me,eh?) about quick recovery here;

I think overrated should be the most defining word here..
Oooh, that perfectionism of yours, the game cannot hold it.  :o  Rally is like menhirs wall, its good for what it does, and having it is miles better than not having. :) Even if it only blocks arrows from trash mobs, that is the damage you do not take and won't need to heal with adcth or pots. 25% recharge from Jade Emperor is enough for full uptime of the ultimate rank skill. Feels like Jade Emperor is not even needed actually, you will be waiting for rally, not quick recovery.

Offline Hector

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #26 on: 11 July 2018, 19:17:46 »
I can't understand what you're trying to say here.. at first I thought you accidently wrote "rally" instead of quick recovery.. but your last sentence made me confused even more.. waiting for rally? I've never been in a situation where I'm forced to wait it.. it is only used when not even a potion can counteract huge and sudden reductions in health pool.. like a manual death ward if you will.. I don't care about its reflection, elemental resistance buff or energy regeneration.. so I never use it as a buff, but of course its just my preference and I'm not saying this should be the optimal way to use it..

Now, seriously, have a look at this and sincerely tell me what would have happened if QR wasn't up in this spot.. what would have changed? would he really get seriously injured?



These kinds of situations are trivial to a well prepared player.. CC skills, defensive stats, ADCtH, debuffs and whatnot... you already have more than enough utilities to stand against trash mobs man.. so no, it is not miles better than not having it (if you actually mean QR there).. it is just a waste of 8 valuable skill points.. 
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 19:21:41 by Hector »

Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #27 on: 11 July 2018, 20:03:31 »
What entartains me is how you judge skills to be waste for some drawbacks. They do what they are supposed to do, block damage up to what your shield allows, no more, no less.

That must be a bad example, most of my caster and ranged glass builds can facetank formicyds. You should try that with machae or in other really nasty areas. Is that a summoner? If you need an exuse to spend these points on pets, just do that, thats a perfecly valid exuse, pets are important if you use them. Block is universally useful to stop any attack, including those carrying CC and debuff. Had there been defiler, you could have tried disallowing broken, normal and magic items from dropping, then go to the same area and see what happens when someone pounds you with Sapros while others swinging rares. Just for example.

Yes, rally can do all these things, reflect and regen, or heal if you don't want either.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #28 on: 11 July 2018, 20:30:06 »
i actually don't understand why you think a skill that greatly reduces block recovery isn't good.. peace Hector, I'll just offer my own take.. a shield blocks all types of damage even DoT.. the bad side is they have 2.5 to 3 seconds of cooldown.. quick recovery reduces that by 81% at ultimate max.. that would be 0.475 to 0.57.. if you can block incoming damage every half second, that would be really good.. now a shield can only block the amount of damage listed on the description (%chance to block x damage).. if you expect it can make a shitty shield very good, that is not what it does.. or if you expect you are now immortal once you have it up, that would be expecting too much.. or if you want it to be very good at lvl 1, that also would be expecting too much.. it is not a one point wonder.

i haven't played defense in AE/R but it doesn't look like it has changed much.. the most i got any of my defense chars in TQIT was epic and even there i felt quick recovery's worth.. i played a conqueror on legendary but the character was not mine.. even for a conqueror, maxed quick recovery was noticeably helpful.

here is what Poinas had to say in his all skills guide:
Quote
Quick Recovery

Effects
Level 1:

50 energy cost
18 seconds duration
-32% shield recovery time
+10% armor absorption
+4% shield block

Level 8:

50 energy cost
34 seconds duration
-80% shield recovery time
+10% armor absorption
+18% shield block


Description

Makes your shield block more often, and increases the effectiveness of your armor. Active skill. 60 seconds of cooldown.


Skillpoint allocation

Awesome skill that greatly reduces the damage you take. 8 points here are not wasted, unless you are already tough as a wall of bricks. All shields have 2,5-3,0 seconds of cooldown by default, QR greatly reduces that time. If you can reach -100% shield recovery time, 100% shield block and enough -%recharge to sustain QR all the time, you basically can't die other than against bosses.

Rating
10/10
in AE/R, shield recovery time has been capped at 90%.. shield block chance remains uncapped if I'm not mistaken
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Hector

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Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
« Reply #29 on: 11 July 2018, 20:45:19 »
Hey mammoth_hunter,

I didn't mean to judge anything dude, we are just writing our opinions.. and I think you should consider the potential mistakes humans can do.. even game developers.. they are just people like us and they have flaws like we do, don't you think?

You sound like every skill, every little aspect of this game means to serve a purpose.. and I simply say that these things are made by "humans" and humans are not flawless beings.. I mean really, for example, do you accept that bullshit change on scatter shot arrows in Hunting?.. transforming it into a "bleed" skill while removing the only thing that used to make it viable.. >:( how is this not a flaw? how is this suppose to serve a "purpose" ?.. if these devs had any sense, they wouldn't have made it this way.. or, if you're gonna change something, make an actual f******* revolution and remove the UNDEAD from the game entirely (I don't know, merge them into magical category or something) so that people can actually get excited to use bleeding, poison and maybe even life leech..

Please tell me if I ask too much.. not just for myself but for all the frustrated players here or anywhere..   
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 20:49:41 by Hector »

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