Author Topic: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds  (Read 416 times)

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Offline Billy_pilgrim

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(Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« on: 20 July 2020, 14:51:16 »
So what do you guys think about non runemaster conversion builds? I always like to make quirky builds, whether they are the most optimal or not I don't mind, as long as they work, in the sense that they can beat legendary and not die an insane amount of times.

I've seen the thread for a sage using a bow and elemental conversion, which looks interesting to me, but not quirky enough: it's got to be melee.

To get 100% conversion there are a few options: 2x Eitr + galabentheim (spelling??) relic, but you could also go hersione's veil + relic. Or the new Atlantis armour (Fata morgana I think) which I don't have. I think there are some more armour's which give 50% physical to ele as well.

So you've got your 100% ele conversion, why would you want to do this in the first place?

Simply, stacking -res from multiple sources (which do stack) is much easier than doing so than for physical resist, the downside is, most enemies have much higher ele resists to begin with (especially on legendary). So we can limit ourselves to masteries which allow us to stack different RR sources (each class should have either %RR (does not stack with itself) or - flat RR (this does stack with itself).

Weapons:
For this build, we would primarily stack intelligence as it scales our damage. Which means we would like to avoid putting as many points into strength as possible. This leaves us with two clear weapon classes: Spears (very low strength requirement) and most "very fast" swords, which require at a maximum about 380 strength vs 208 for spears). As far as conversion goes, elemental happens before pierce, so if we convert 100% damage, there will be nothing left to convert to piercing so there is no conflict here for spears, and it automatically makes spears the most promising weapon I'd say.

Classes:
So this is where I'd be happy to see some more input, I think the strongest elemental mastery for any build trying this is likely storm. There are a lot of synergies with squall, it adds frost and lightning damage to attacks (which is 66% of your damage whereas fire would be 33% damage). And it has wisp which will buff us with 100% extra ele damage occasionally as well (super juicy!). Thinking of the spear as a primary weapon I think the obvious choice is hunting, so back to the sage: As hunting also has -resistances from study prey, some nice attack speed boost, anbd the lvl 40 ability can be left at lvl1 to reduce the % fear proc as we won't be doing physical damage to begin with.. The main problem with the melee sage will be what to do with the offhand? Probably equip a shitty shield like moondisc, which will still require 300 strength or so...

The other option is to go for Thane, and I am basing it on this MI item from Atlantis: Goldfang khopesh

- flat resistances and attack speed (it's pretty hard to find though)

To remove the shitty shield problem, you'd want to dual wield these leading me to my next thought:

Thane.

Fewer synergies between the two masteries here, however. There are still some nice benefits to warfare, onslaught scales all damage (at least that is what I understand from the description), but battle standard wouldn't be as good as it is in some other builds, but still good, and of course we'd have the whole dual wield tree to enjoy with very fast weapons. Always fun. Still, I'm a little more sceptical about this one, but somehow also it seems like it might be the most fun to play.

Some asides: Conversion applies to damage from shield so, defence is a viable mastery as well (and would allow us to reduce strength requirements for shields).

Dream has ToW which, as a melee character would be easy to apply, and it has some other nice little supporting characteristics (maybe a melee prophet: will have huge strength issues though...).

Well this is the reason for creating this thread, looking for any other fun suggestions or combinations I may have overlooked.

Cheers,

Billy.

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Offline icefreeze

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Re: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« Reply #1 on: 20 July 2020, 16:34:07 »
- Elemental dmg do not crit when melee, but you still need good enough OA (about 900 at late game) to hits enemies without not miss too much.
- Shield base (physical) dmg do not converted to elemental dmg by Transmutation skill or any "Converted weapon base dmg to elemental dmg" sources.
- The RR effect of ToW and Obscured Visibility (Squall) from character doesn't stacked.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« Reply #2 on: 21 July 2020, 01:43:35 »
I always like to make quirky builds, whether they are the most optimal or not I don't mind, as long as they work, in the sense that they can beat legendary and not die an insane amount of times.
every fiber of my being can relate. is how i used to play before i lost all my items/characters (which i really didn't mind).
like icefreeze said, you still need high OA for melee chars even though it won't crit. so it lead to my chakram of the moon converted to elemental oracle somewhere in this forum.
2 weapons i wanted to build on both i never got to do. first is golden kris. it has high elemental damage but divided into fire, cold, and lightning. but the str requirement though is only 1. for this build i don't think any elem conversion is needed. can maybe go with moon disc (300+ str), rings of the rhine (242 str), shark fin (low str, high dex Atlantis only), or just santas shield.

but since you said you like it melee, leads me to the 2nd weapon i wanted to build on but never got to - hofud (sword). some 150 elem damage and converts 50% base damage to elemental. and if you're wondering, yes 2 hofuds will convert all your base weapon damage to elemental. i remember testing this before

edit: i doubt this though
- Shield base (physical) dmg do not converted to elemental dmg by Transmutation skill or any "Converted weapon base dmg to elemental dmg" sources.
i think i remember testing this and i think it does convert the base shield damage, just not the extra damage from shield attacks (skill itself). not 100% sure, been a long time. but iirc Vio also thinks this way
https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=236.msg2032#msg2032

edit 2: don't forget about defense's armor handling (reduced str req for armors and shields)
« Last Edit: 21 July 2020, 02:37:40 by botebote77 »
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Offline icefreeze

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Re: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« Reply #3 on: 21 July 2020, 04:56:58 »
@botebote77 I was tested  before talk.

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Offline Billy_pilgrim

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Re: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« Reply #4 on: 21 July 2020, 14:41:16 »
I know squall and ToW don't stack :=) If I was to make a melee ele conversion prophet I'd take ToC I think, squiall is just too good. Thinking about some of the comments here I didn't consider hofud.. It's a pretty neat deal and frees up a lof equipment slots which would otherwise be needed for convertion. Is the elemental damage on it additative withthe base physical damage? In that case it really would be a no brainer for a Melee thane ele conversion build... I also think Paladin/Templar might be quite promising because of armour handling, and Paladin would get a bunch of procs, never considered a melee paladin before tbh, as I always end up using them as ice sharders...

I don't think spending big on dex is a problem at the end of the day - more DA is always welcome. I still think for pure damage Sage is a winner because you can stack squall and study prey and get a bunch of neat bonusses for your spear.... Itimization wise... Might be trickier...

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Offline Tauceti

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Re: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« Reply #5 on: 22 July 2020, 20:46:48 »
So what do you guys think about non runemaster conversion builds?

Do you exlude runemaster mastery or only the transmutation skill ?

Rune+Storm on the paper is smart for a melee char because of rune weapon skill which boosts intelligence pool greatly, and also reckless offense or runeword absorb.
Therefore even without points on transmutation a melee thunderer should shine with a very fast weapon like Hofud, as Bote mentioned.

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Offline Billy_pilgrim

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Re: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« Reply #6 on: 23 July 2020, 08:53:18 »
So what do you guys think about non runemaster conversion builds?

Do you exlude runemaster mastery or only the transmutation skill ?

Rune+Storm on the paper is smart for a melee char because of rune weapon skill which boosts intelligence pool greatly, and also reckless offense or runeword absorb.
Therefore even without points on transmutation a melee thunderer should shine with a very fast weapon like Hofud, as Bote mentioned.

Well, the challenge is to make something workable without Rune mastery. But it is very challenging, I made a accomplished hero and it was pretty terrible but I don't have any of the conversion gear as I'm playing on a fresh re-install. I think if you have the gear a sage is probably the strongest, or maybe a templar? Templar using ToW and a fast weapon, armour handling would let you equip some decent shields, like rings of the rhine and maybe Sojuns mantle... while not spending anything on strength..

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Offline botebote77

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Re: (Theorycrafting) Non runemaster conversion builds
« Reply #7 on: 23 July 2020, 12:27:13 »
this is just my opinion, my own personal opinion, which shouldn't affect other people's playstyles. an elemental runemaster that doesn't use transmutation is just nerfing your character for no particular reason. like warfare not allowed to use battle standard
playing a conversion build where there is no conversion at all is like trying something new, or in Billy's words - "quirky". this adds the element of fun imo
« Last Edit: 23 July 2020, 13:01:25 by botebote77 »
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