Author Topic: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge  (Read 4964 times)

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Offline botebote77

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Hello everyone. I just thought of maybe could be an interesting challenge that i think anyone can join and play.

From the title, it's a single mastery challenge, but there is a (sort of). That's because you are allowed to get a 2nd mastery, BUT you are not allowed to get any skill from your 2nd mastery. That is, you are only allowed to put points on the mastery bar of your 2nd mastery, but only the mastery bar, no skills from there.

So by this rule, i think it shouldn't be too hard because the drawback of getting too little health, mana, and stats is eliminated. But it's also not too easy because it's untwinked (no inheritance items allowed), and it's a hardcore challenge so you are not allowed to die.

What do you guys think? Chime in with your opinions and post your entry character/s if you like.

hopefools
botebote77 - plsdrinkpoison - Rogue - L66 - Helos


banished from existence
Tauceti - Ni - Defense L63 - Olympus - died against Typhon
botebote77 - Rin - Storm L34 - medea's grove - died trying to farm Typhon
rakshir - Durgoth - Spirit - L40 - died in Atlantis


blue => normal
green => epic
red => legendary
maroon => i see dead people
« Last Edit: 06 September 2020, 06:11:46 by botebote77 »
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #1 on: 03 July 2020, 20:39:06 »
I am currently playing soulvizier mod and this mod is really addictive with its soul mechanism.
On the other hand, lose faith on any hardcore challenge with it because this mod is even harder than xmax mod !

So your challenge Bote is interesting, i' ll think about it. Defender, wanderer or even a rogue one should be on the starting block  ;D
What are your rules, a pic for each main boss ? what about normal mode ? (like in Medea's challenges)

Edit: do you allow scrolls ?
« Last Edit: 03 July 2020, 20:54:47 by Tauceti »

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #2 on: 04 July 2020, 01:20:54 »
What are your rules, a pic for each main boss ?
i think that requires too many unnecessary pics. just a pic from time to time will do. like after beating Typhon, if that's your first pic I'd count it.

Edit: do you allow scrolls ?
yes. i intended this to be vanilla so everything that goes with vanilla is ok. e.g: scrolls, potions, cheesing, controller use, console use... except getting skills from the 2nd mastery
and also no manipulation of game files. like completing a quest and going back to a previous save and redoing the quest if you don't like the rewards. or completing an artifact and going back to a previous save if you don't like the completion bonus. or if you die, and going back to a previous save that shows zero deaths
« Last Edit: 04 July 2020, 01:25:31 by botebote77 »
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #3 on: 04 July 2020, 14:19:37 »
I scratched my head to choose a single mastery  ::)

Wanderer is imo the best choice if one wants to go far here and Rogue is a solid choice to deal with bosses in a cheesy way. Hmm..
Finally i took a defender as the play style is still appealing. But il will require, contrary to the wanderer or rogue, much more farming runs since a melee char heavily depends on gear.

So here is a new entry: the knight Ni  !
After a few runs on Nessus, finally found a blue weapon on Nessus' chest. It should be useful at L11 and give me time to find a very fast green weapon, better for a melee char.

Spoiler for Hiden:

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #4 on: 05 July 2020, 16:48:27 »
Seer will be a good choice for this challenge.

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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #5 on: 06 July 2020, 23:23:43 »
An update for act 1.

I realize now that good artifacts won't be easy to make when playing self-found.

As expected, Ni spent a lot of gorgons runs to find stonebinder's cuffs.
Unexpected was the time spent on Telkine runs to achieve the main greece relics needed later for artifacts.

Spoiler for Hiden:

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Offline lixiss

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #6 on: 07 July 2020, 01:43:47 »
An update for act 1.
I realize now that good artifacts won't be easy to make when playing self-found.
As expected, Ni spent a lot of gorgons runs to find stonebinder's cuffs.
Unexpected was the time spent on Telkine runs to achieve the main greece relics needed later for artifacts.

Good work, I very like idea! The only mine question - how far "Mi" character can go deep if it will get both of any masteries but did not take any skill? :) Kind of another (may be good old known?) challenge?

Your first attempt of getting of Stonebinder's Cuffs should be in Pythian Caves. This is fantastic place for farming them AND this place also often offer you big number of semi-magical chests including big ones which also offer a lot of relics in the end. If you farm Stonebinder's Cuffs in labyrinth - i feel at this moment you can get really good prefixes, may be dual green prefixes if you very lucky, or at least useful prefixes, say - light of gryphon - is absolutely doable, - but you will never meet big magical chests, - and number of relics will be fairly low, compared to pythian caves. On other side - lot of mechanical parts which i'm usually miss. But, farming Telkine - it is bit suboptimal in my taste. Generally he drop nothing valuable like almost any boss in this game _at_this_part_of_game_. Surely, i'm doesn't critique you of course. Just never had feel to farm telkine which drop lot of completely useless items (for me). Yellow mystical orb? It usually drop only "sell me now" items. (However i'm surely have very personalized point of view.)

PS: However, regardless, to what i'm wrote up, i'm usually rely on cuffs, but at same time hate them - they appear too early, you can farm week for good one which you like and... you not progress in game. This mean what you should know what you want, otherwise it no have any sense. And affixes are limited to pretty low quality. I'm really hate this aspect. Also i'm hate what during farming character usually overleveled content, but eventually he/she ass will be kicked hard when xp curve return it to "normal" state, but until this moment it feel a like "very strong", but it is always false feel. It is just general complaining. For this challenge every your level up is good thing and pretty valid. // I'm just worry what it may become annoying very fast while trying to get something what you want, but RNG thing in other way.

PPS: Also playing in SV-AERA actively, and also addicted to new Defender (in my case Defender+Storm). It is trash-mob exploder... (i'm heavily invested into weapon buffs and wear classical +elemental damage gear like of pegasus, or of gryphon and! two green loops of whirwinds and green necklacke of whirlwinds (all 3 come with +health regen and +mana regen which are very useful) -> this ends with more than +100% to lightning/cold damage, so investments in weapon buffs not just reasonable - combining with defense dual strike makes them 2x more effective and in fact 3-4x effectively -> only few tough enemies can survive batter). :)) SV-AERA definitely make new Defender stronger, i guess, area of effect of batter is way more bigger. However, i'm also overlevel by farming content (not the first time, but this time - dramatically!). Haha. But it is rewardable - almost everything blows up. Also found some reciepe for wand and now want again play with Prophet (because wand on defender is useless). But it is so long... Ugh.

PPPS: In reality i'm long time almost ignore defense mastery completely for no reason. Don't know why. Main thing which i'm disliked - it is purple circles caused by rend armor. I'm fix what, by removing this effect (by simple file override) - so this purple circles no more train my eyes every 4 seconds.

PPPPS: My first mastery which i'm play in original TQ - was Warfare. And after what i'm start to hate it, because it was horrible experience because *I'm* was too young. I'm doesn't know how i'm able come into Athens without non-magical items. I'm guess i'm doesn't know about filters (if there is was any of) or something. But i'm constantly lack health, so lack, what health recovery from quest rewards was welcome... Ugh. I'm had no money. If i'm remember right - i'm doesn't know in that time about teleporting, as result - can't sell everything for money. :) Or original TQ was really more complex? I'm know what base regen rate + recovery items now are probably much stronger, but really don't remember experience which was too long ago. Probably need to refresh original experience at least in act 1.

PPPPPS: Well, at this moment i'm dislike Warfare for other reason: it says what it is physical/soldier combatant. But instead it land spells like war cry, battle standard or so and even summons. I'm just can't accept mentally this. However, i'm understand what in this games any char is always has some spells, but... Just mentality. In same way i'm dislike rangers, but for another reason - they put debuffs on you too fast without any reason. You can "nullify" self to remove debuff from self - it is non-sense action - you will be debuffed almost immediately again. And at normal skill levels (1/1) - you can try nullify them - but in fact they will debuff you also almost immediately. Yep, skill requires investment -> but with normal skill disposition -> it is useless. The problem what CD is not adequate, and what 3, 5, 7, 10 of them may cast it on you. So, debuffing just has no sense -> it is easier kill them by raw power. :) In that sense i'm dislike spell breaker at all -> it is interesting game mechanics, but from one side unnecessary trivialize game in some cases, but in other cases if your character are heavy on buffs -> it gives you no chances to countering this, and adds only kiting rather than something interesting.

Mans, sorry, for unrelated wall of text. It was accidentally.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #7 on: 07 July 2020, 02:28:50 »
I'll just update it on the main post.
i feel it a little strange that no one mentioned hunting as i feel it's what is suited for this challenge. but maybe I'm wrong. i started with Rogue but duhhh so very slow early game. and around lvl 8, i started to question the importance of +4 where there's not many skills you can get and the one's you will get you will likely max anyway. eh i don't know but for rogue no doubt it's needed.
so i started with storm but still very early and i forgot to take a pic. I'll include it when it progresses

forgot to say, Tauceti already knows this but for those thinking to join, if you want to farm the secret passage, giving it an overlord is not allowed. you have to farm for it yourself if you want to farm the secret passage >:D
but farming the secret passage is not a must. or you can go back to normal when you are around lvl 50 and farm overlord there.
and if you have Atlantis, yes doing Atlantis act is a must
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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #8 on: 08 July 2020, 10:43:12 »
it's going to be a slow progress, but i'm quite used to playing storm self-found actually. most of the farming is done in act 1, and always check merchants for indomitable necklace.
shadowmaw spawned, as shown in the pic. but i'm quite used to playing with 3 big dogs so fighting 1 shadowmaw wasn't really a fistpump
Spoiler for Hiden:
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #9 on: 08 July 2020, 20:45:31 »
how far "Mi" character can go deep if it will get both of any masteries but did not take any skill? :) Kind of another (may be good old known?) challenge?
Not sure that you would go beyond normal without skills. The problem i see with this challenge is that there is no more difference between classes.

Quote
Your first attempt of getting of Stonebinder's Cuffs should be in Pythian Caves. This is fantastic place for farming them AND this place also often offer you big number of semi-magical chests including big ones which also offer a lot of relics in the end. If you farm Stonebinder's Cuffs in labyrinth - i feel at this moment you can get really good prefixes, may be dual green prefixes if you very lucky, or at least useful prefixes, say - light of gryphon - is absolutely doable, - but you will never meet big magical chests, - and number of relics will be fairly low, compared to pythian caves. On other side - lot of mechanical parts which i'm usually miss. But, farming Telkine - it is bit suboptimal in my taste. Generally he drop nothing valuable like almost any boss in this game _at_this_part_of_game_.
true enough but such farming runs on gorgons and telkine are more for relics/formulas/greens/blues than for a special piece of gear like stonebinder's cuffs (which are not mandatory at all in normal mode). You may find only crappy yellow but on the long term boss runs are a valuable source of relics and good blues.

it's going to be a slow progress, but i'm quite used to playing storm self-found actually. most of the farming is done in act 1, and always check merchants for indomitable necklace.

Hey i was feeling alone. Great ! I hope other fools will join us  ;D
btw what is an indomitable necklace ?

Here is an update for act II
Spoiler for Hiden:
Knight Ni got his 1st good green weapon at this stage which granted a decent dps of 200 through act II. It should work until mid act 3 but will be too low for late act III.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #10 on: 09 July 2020, 04:13:35 »
indomitable is a prefix
Spoiler for Hiden:

one of those you tend to ignore when playing twinked. but untwinked early game and for a hardcore run, it's a nice piece of jewelry

edit: not that you would need it because of that skill right up there. forgot the name. but me i need it. hey could you give me that skill in exchange for lightning dash? lol jk

i just finished act 1. normally i would farm there first but this time i decided to just push through
Spoiler for Hiden:

i would still probably farm shadowmaw later on. it's the best farming spot for demons blood. around lvl 25 should be easy
« Last Edit: 09 July 2020, 04:25:04 by botebote77 »
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Offline lixiss

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #11 on: 09 July 2020, 21:47:44 »
indomitable is a prefix
I'm not understand what you mean. It is uncommon to see this prefix early, and... well... What it exactly gives for you? In my personal taste, unless you play with mods (and challenge is not about) - stuns are pathetic. I'm asking by just want to get another vision, because mine personal vision rate this as completely useless charm (EDITED: prefix of course). I'm not saying what it is absolutely useless, but in mine reality, i'm personally never had feeling what i'm should raise CC resistances (in act 1-3 / normal).

ADD: In the end - all paragraph above can be rephrased - why you think this is so good / important?
« Last Edit: 09 July 2020, 21:50:17 by lixiss »

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #12 on: 09 July 2020, 23:44:36 »
stuns are pathetic
umm not gonna argue.. i mean.... yeah not gonna argue.
hey wanna join  ^-^
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #13 on: 10 July 2020, 00:51:43 »
one of those you tend to ignore when playing twinked. but untwinked early game and for a hardcore run, it's a nice piece of jewelry

Ah ok. And no i won't exchange iron will with lightning dash  ;D
Therefore i prefer ritual necklace that prevent from high spike damage monsters like djinns heroes (i've bad memories of Safya and Sagira that stopped one hardcore run).

@lixiss Stun resistance is mandatory even in act 1-3 normal. Elder centaur, Minotaur lord, wyrm mage and i believe tigerlord, and indeed Barmanu can stop your run with one stun hit.

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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Single Mastery (sort of) Untwinked Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #14 on: 11 July 2020, 00:46:16 »
With defender core skills reached, act III was the time to put points on warfare mastery (no skills though) in order to pump up HP, strength and dex.

Spoiler for Hiden:


Knight Ni tried some Typhon runs  but stopped quickly on the 3rd try. Too much time spent and too many risks for a hazardous result.
Although a typhon run was rather secure when staying focused, it's easy to slip on a soap  ::)

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