Titanquest Fan Forum

Titan Quest - Anniversary Edition/Ragnarök => Anniversary Edition - General discussion => Topic started by: Cleglaw on 15 January 2018, 18:24:49

Title: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 15 January 2018, 18:24:49
Is Quick Recovery still useful for my Runesmith?
I have 4+ to skills (hallowed helm, Loratian greaves and epic sbc).
Absorb maxed gives me -67% to shield recovery time.
Focus maxed gives me +25% chance to block.
My unique shield, Rings of the Rhine has a 24% chance to block + an additional 49% chance to block.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Vio on 16 January 2018, 22:31:34
Yes. This gives xou close to 100% block chance at 1/3 the recovery time (1s), but you can lower that to 1/10 recovery time (0.3s).

Then get some retaliation damage going. :)
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Pazuzu on 17 January 2018, 01:13:08
Does 100% recovery and cooldown time work? I tried on my guardian which previously had 100% immunity with QR and he was getting hit. Do we  have any thread regarding the immortal builds and what's changed?
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 17 January 2018, 01:21:39
Does 100% recovery and cooldown time work? I tried on my guardian which previously had 100% immunity with QR and he was getting hit. Do we  have any thread regarding the immortal builds and what's changed?
shield recovery capped at 90%

http://titanquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shields

as for block chance.. i don't know but maybe there's no cap
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 17 January 2018, 01:45:55

Thanks folks.
"Magical Charge" gives lots of retaliation damage right off the bat.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Pazuzu on 17 January 2018, 02:29:15
@Cleglaw  btw im also playing with runesmith at the moment. Act 3 normal. I don't think that defense and runes have a very good synergy together, but that does not mean that they cannot work together if you know what i mean. The problem with runes is that its a hybrid class, and it has some skills that are not particularly useful for a defender if you plan on playing as a tank like i do.

Rune Weapon: It is an ok skill, hybrid one sadly. It focuses on elemental damage which is not useful for strength based toons (if you can think of any way to take advantage of the elemental damage please let me know, so far im not using it). AdctH and total damage are pretty good though.

Sacred Rage: Decent, not that you will use it a lot, since when your health drops you instantly pot.

Reckless Offense: Not using it for runesmith, might go great will warfare though.

Energy Armor: I dont have enough points to use that at the moment, will get back to it later

Feather: Ok skill, doesnt really give a big boost though

Explode: This is nice, im using it. Defense toons need as much damage as they can get..\

Absorb: Not enough points, i think its gonna be good.

Thunder Strike: Useless, not enough damage and short range in low levels, prefer to just play melee.

Seal of Fate: Havent used yet, should go well with rogue (?)

Runic Mines: Same as above ^

Rune of Life: Not really sure if this works only with dweller or what

Menhir Wall: Havent used yet, potentially good (?)

If you have any tips i would love to hear the way you distributed your points on your runesmith. Im trying to syrgize the 2 masteries but its difficult.. Using a guardian and a corsair was much easier as the masteries had great synergy.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 17 January 2018, 03:03:43
The Runesmith and Defense are a match made in heaven. I didn't realize when I first started out how well they synergize together. Keep in mind that I am only in Act II of Epic, so I don't know what will happen in Legendary yet.
The build looks something like this at present.
https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc738c738crune.html?mastery=Runesmith&master1=5&master2=10&sa=0&m1=32-1-1-0-6-1-1-0-1-1-6-0-1-0-1-1-1-0-1-1-5-0&m2=32-10-1-0-16-1-0-0-1-6-0-0-5-4-12-0-8-0-0-0-6-0 (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc738c738crune.html?mastery=Runesmith&master1=5&master2=10&sa=0&m1=32-1-1-0-6-1-1-0-1-1-6-0-1-0-1-1-1-0-1-1-5-0&m2=32-10-1-0-16-1-0-0-1-6-0-0-5-4-12-0-8-0-0-0-6-0)

I have +4 to all skills. The skills I show as being maxed are indeed maxed, but, atm, I don't remember the exact # of points I put in a couple of the skills.
As far as attributes are concerned, initially they all went into strength and enough dexterity to wear epic SBC. Now I am putting some into intellect.

Sacred Rage: I like the speed boost, and sometimes I go around without using a pot just for that.  It's modifier: Frightening Power is a 2 edged sword. When I cast Seal of Fate, it is counterproductive. At other times it is helpful.

Energy Armor: You'd think I'd put a lot of points here. And, I might experiment with it down the line. But at higher levels it is very expensive to cast, and I don't like the idea of having to recast it all the time. To me it is more useful on a glass cannon type of build that has a high energy reserve.

Feather: 1 point. Maybe more later if needed for equipping weapons since I am putting points in intellect now.

Absorb: max it

Thunder Strike: I really like this skill. If you don't want the RuneWeapon line then consider putting this on the LMB. I might add it on later to a hotkey. Might not. 

Seal of Fate: Great skill. Fits well with defense. Max Aftershock 1st.

Runic Mines: It can work well with melee. The slow effect is really nice.

Rune of Life: Useful for boosting bleed and vitality resistance.

Menhir Wall: I have tinkered with it on other toons. It might be good, but honestly I haven't given it too much thought.

Guardian Stones: This is a nice boss killer skill, but I use Seal of Fate instead. And I have the well Known Colossus Form. But, it could work.

Have fun. If you have any specific questions I will be happy to answer them. Oh, and you will find some terrific shields in Act V.



Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Pazuzu on 17 January 2018, 03:08:55
So are you not using batter and shield charge?

Maybe its just me still being in normal, i hope later on the runes mastery will shine even more.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 17 January 2018, 03:20:36
I am not not using batter and shield charge. It is unneeded because the passives are continually kicking in.

I didn't comment on the Rune Weapon line. There is a significant damage boost. There is lots of retaliation damage that helps kill quickly even with low level characters. There is energy leach, ADCtH, reduced enemy offense and speed. What's not to like? The %intelligence boost helps with the elemental damage, and helps with energy regen. I have no complaints about the skill line.

Quite honestly this is the first time I am enjoying a Defense toon. If the old forum were still around, you'd see my disparaging remarks about how boring it is to play a Conqueror.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 17 January 2018, 06:18:15
i have a question cleglaw and pazuzu.. when shield attacks proc, only the weapon attack gets affected by transmutation right? so int is useless on shield attack procs?

cleglaw, that seems like a potentially good guide for a runesmith
Quite honestly this is the first time I am enjoying a Defense toon. If the old forum were still around, you'd see my disparaging remarks about how boring it is to play a Conqueror.

lol i don't have a def character in AE/R yet but i remember back from TQIT, i had a conqueror of course going smoothly but i never got to finish it because it's just the most boring character i have.. then few months after, my nephew created a conqueror as well and well same thing ;D the only time i enjoyed a defense char was when i played it as an icesharder
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 17 January 2018, 06:51:51
i have a question cleglaw and pazuzu.. when shield attacks proc, only the weapon attack gets affected by transmutation right? so int is useless on shield attack procs?


I haven't used transmutation yet so I am reluctant to comment on how it works in practice. You appear to be correct, however.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Vio on 17 January 2018, 16:36:01
It ought to work on shields, because they also count as weapons (and as armor).

Besides most shield attacks hit with both the shield and weapon.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 17 January 2018, 17:00:14
Thanks Violos for the clarification.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 17 January 2018, 20:58:41
It ought to work on shields, because they also count as weapons (and as armor).

Besides most shield attacks hit with both the shield and weapon.
oh.. now I'm inclined to test this.. if this is true, cleglaw and pazuzu's stat allocation is wrong  >:D
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 17 January 2018, 21:33:07
There is lots of retaliation damage that helps kill quickly even with low level characters. There is energy leach, ADCtH, reduced enemy offense and speed. What's not to like? The %intelligence boost helps with the elemental damage, and helps with energy regen. I have no complaints about the skill line.
one thing about the elemental retaliation though, it doesn't scale with %int or %total damage.. it scales with character level

+ All Retaliation Damages now scale with character level

still, with the new XP scaling, retaliation damages should be better now.. the flat elemental added to weapon from magical charge, that should scale with int and %total damage
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 17 January 2018, 21:38:17
It ought to work on shields, because they also count as weapons (and as armor).

Besides most shield attacks hit with both the shield and weapon.
oh.. now I'm inclined to test this.. if this is true, cleglaw and pazuzu's stat allocation is wrong  >:D
Why do you say that?
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 17 January 2018, 21:52:05
nah it was just a quick assessment without much thought.. now that i think a little more, i probably would go hybrid if it was me.. i edited my comment

edit: not because of transmutation.. i probably would still ignore transmutation.. but because of int items like archmages clasp to be able to almost spam thunder strike and cast colossus more often.. maybe also seal of fate since runesmith is a good tank already and it might be a good boss killer.. demon skin walkers is also an option but i don't have 1.. int would not be wasted because of rune weapon/magical charge
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Cleglaw on 22 January 2018, 01:37:30


Seal of Fate: Great skill. Fits well with defense. Max Aftershock 1st.

It is not a great skill. It is an incredibly great skill.  It enables you to get a substantial amount of health back from a construct or an undead boss for a couple of swings after the seal detonates -- like Epic Talos or that epic undead dragon at the end of that cave before you get to the Jade Palace portal.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 16 June 2018, 06:41:52
I am not not using batter and shield charge. It is unneeded because the passives are continually kicking in.

I didn't comment on the Rune Weapon line. There is a significant damage boost. There is lots of retaliation damage that helps kill quickly even with low level characters. There is energy leach, ADCtH, reduced enemy offense and speed. What's not to like? The %intelligence boost helps with the elemental damage, and helps with energy regen. I have no complaints about the skill line.

Quite honestly this is the first time I am enjoying a Defense toon. If the old forum were still around, you'd see my disparaging remarks about how boring it is to play a Conqueror.

I don't want to necro this but you exaggerated a bit too much here.. ADCtH on the skill is only a mere 4% and even when coupled with an Anubis charm or ~feasting suffix on the weapon, it is still nothing.. it absolutely makes no visible difference.. In my game, the other skills in the tree are maxed except the base skill which is 7 for now and I have a folg with double affixes plus tons of elemental damage bonus on my char's gear AND IT STILL DOES NOTHING in terms of leeching some visible amounts of life back.. In my view, at least a 20% ADCtH is needed in order to JUST FEEL the desired effect..
 
Health regeneration strategy as an alternative is always much more reliable IMO thanks to not having to care for leeching anything from undead and constructions and in this case; thanks to defense mastery as well .. I have a completed Viny Growth charm on my character with the health regeneration completion bonus and it is all needed in order to benefit from adrenaline + rally combo.. I have +3 skills so they all are just at 4 right now and I'm not using any health potions in Act V normal.. and mind you, Normal is usually harder than Epic due to still being in the "squishy" phase as a warrior..

Both Reduced Offensive Ability & Slowed% (especially the latter) portions of the skill are also worthless unless you max it or at least get it close to max level and complement it by carrying some of the same effect on your gear.. but investing in this skill, especially early on, is a very bad idea since runesmith has a lot of much more important skills to cover beforehand compared to both energy drain and even the base skill itself..

One last thing... IMO, Seal of Fate is not a great skill, and definitely not an incredibly great skill at all.. the stupid delay factor is simply killing its very purpose.. I've seen some heroes and other special mid-bosses actively evaded its circle as if they were controlled by another player..
The small radius, the inconsistency of its aggro element (from the same distance, sometimes it debuffs enemies without alarming them, whereas other times it immediately aggros everything BEFORE EXPLODING), and the frustration of repeatedly trying to hit some greater enemies again and again to no avail while kiting like crazy is more than enough to call this one a "bad skill" in my book.. Sometimes I really crave for Squall whenever I play with this char..
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 16 June 2018, 08:55:54
since this had been necroed already, i just want to give one more big smiley face to this:
Quite honestly this is the first time I am enjoying a Defense toon. If the old forum were still around, you'd see my disparaging remarks about how boring it is to play a Conqueror.
;D

Sometimes I really crave for Squall whenever I play with this char..
how do i give 10 likes to this comment? :)

one thought on the life steal from rune weapon.. life steal scales with ones damage so maybe on higher levels, the damage would be noticeable? of course i can't say because i don't have a runesmith and i don't even play pure melee builds anymore.. also rune weapon is an aura and you get it's effects as long as the aura is active, so maybe a runesmith can steal more life by alternating rune weapon with thunder strike and shield charge.. but then again it goes contrary with this:
I am not not using batter and shield charge. It is unneeded because the passives are continually kicking in.
you'll still steal more life from the shield attack procs though.. but if it's enough, that is another question

also seal of fate isn't useless.. cast it on surtr, summon guardian stones, then run away.. it doesn't look like what a runesmith would do but other builds can have a use of it
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 16 June 2018, 22:32:47
Yeah man I hear you, but how many stationary enemies do you encounter in this game? Surtr, for one.. that sea creature in Corinth, what was its name, Ketos?? any other? ok lets also count enormous bosses since they usually move slow..

Now what about the rest of the enemies? I mean like 95% of them.. I tried to control and contain enemy groups via Menhir wall before casting this skill, hoping that they get stuck where they stand before they start approaching my location and get caught in the explosion this way but some of them just magically phase through the wall by simply running into it while others smack it down in the blink of an eye.. and I don't have any other CC method in my mind to keep them in their place.. if you have any, please share with me :(

The skill's radius is miserable and the delay should absolutely go.. for these reasons, I still think the skill is simply the result of a bad game design (though the amount of debuff it applies is really really strong, I gotta admit that)..

BTW, since you mentioned shield procs and AOE attacks... no man, despite their bigger potential and hitting more than one enemy to gain more life in theory, the results are still terrible.. the amount of damage you receive while gaining maybe just a 1/10 of it back in the process will simply result in drinking that damn potion.. no stability, no benefit, nothing...
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 17 June 2018, 00:41:59
keep enemies stationary... hmm how about making yourself stationary.. have you read my skinchanger guide? :)  i only have it at 1pt each though and i only use it against bosses and select stationary mobs like night mistress? was it called? those draining mana in act 4

mobs magically phasing through the wall.. wow Laionidas said the same thing

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=469.msg5093#msg5093
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 19 June 2018, 01:05:34
@Hector late answer regarding ADCTH.. I'm just remembering some of my experiences with some of my melee characters back when i was still playing them.. may or may not be informative...

ADCTH has always been a must for my melee chars but only starting late epic.. 4 AE characters of mine that all uses ADCTH:

bonecharmer (melee/non-ragnarok) - with just 1 incarnation of Anubis wrath, i steal truck loads of health.. with ultimate max necrosis, combined with permanent call of the hunt and unearthly power, i can fully replenish my health with 1 to 2 hits.. that's counting volley procs.. DPS i think was about 9k

assassin (this was a long time ago before it got weird/better ;) ) - dual wielder.. both weapons have anubis wrath.. life steal was not as huge as bonecharmer's but almost as good because of rapid attacks and 99% of attacks critting.. would never have survived legendary without it

sorcerer (mage) - not melee but life steal from elemental rage works with throwing knife.. being a glass cannon, it's obvious i also can't survive legendary without it.. life steal from one projectile is puny but because it's a multi fast attack, i can facetank most mobs with not much kiting

illusionist - the least life steal of the 4.. i tried high DA first (at about 1k give or take/argonauts set) and it helped.. i tried throwing knife next with phobos and deimos (10% ADCTH set bonus).. DA got down to 600 but i like it better.. more right clicks but less running

tldr: 20% life steal may not be necessary provided you deal high enough damage whether single target attacks or rapid multi attacks.. and also if you have necrosis
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 11 July 2018, 06:09:15
Since I still play with my warden who is now in legendary, I'd like to drop a few criticisms (yeah that's the usual me,eh?) about quick recovery here;

I think overrated should be the most defining word here.. most people seem to praise it like it is a miraculously powerful lifesaving/preserving utility.. I have been experimenting with it recently and I can easily say I have never ever needed this skill even in the tightest spots, dangerously crowded sections.. when you have max pierce resistance, high armor value (together with extra absorption) and great panic skills such as rally, not even the rain of arrows from machae archers make this skill a necessity.. and if I'm to receive serious damage despite having all these, I receive that serious damage regardless of this skill is up or not at that moment..

I think what most people seem to overlook in this case is, almost every attack type that is deadly to even well built chars is something that shields can't block anyway.. huge AOEs, breath attacks, instant life reducers and so on...
Your 17897298347982748% block chance and almost zero recovery time is not gonna save you from the real dangers of this game.. so what is the point of placing this much value to this "mediocre at best" skill and considering it as it is in the same league with bad boys such as battle standard, colossus form or call of the hunt?..

I guess the only sensible scenario where one can actually benefit from this skill is equipping low level, shitty shields (but with other good stats to compensate its inadequate block chance) and raising the low block chance to a decent rate via this skill + focus from battle awareness.. BTW, good luck with building all that CDR while sacrificing other important stats to keep it active most of the time.. ::)
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: tholuneve on 11 July 2018, 06:55:02
Since I still play with my warden who is now in legendary, I'd like to drop a few criticisms (yeah that's the usual me,eh?) about quick recovery here;

I think overrated should be the most defining word here.. most people seem to praise it like it is a miraculously powerful lifesaving/preserving utility.. I have been experimenting with it recently and I can easily say I have never ever needed this skill even in the tightest spots, dangerously crowded sections.. when you have max pierce resistance, high armor value (together with extra absorption) and great panic skills such as rally, not even the rain of arrows from machae archers make this skill a necessity.. and if I'm to receive serious damage despite having all these, I receive that serious damage regardless of this skill is up or not at that moment..

I think what most people seem to overlook in this case is, almost every attack type that is deadly to even well built chars is something that shields can't block anyway.. huge AOEs, breath attacks, instant life reducers and so on...
Your 17897298347982748% block chance and almost zero recovery time is not gonna save you from the real dangers of this game.. so what is the point of placing this much value to this "mediocre at best" skill and considering it as it is in the same league with bad boys such as battle standard, colossus form or call of the hunt?..

I guess the only sensible scenario where one can actually benefit from this skill is equipping low level, shitty shields (but with other good stats to compensate its inadequate block chance) and raising the low block chance to a decent rate via this skill + focus from battle awareness.. BTW, good luck with building all that CDR while sacrificing other important stats to keep it active most of the time.. ::)

Totally agreed.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 11 July 2018, 11:06:03
Since I still play with my warden who is now in legendary, I'd like to drop a few criticisms (yeah that's the usual me,eh?) about quick recovery here;

I think overrated should be the most defining word here..
Oooh, that perfectionism of yours, the game cannot hold it.  :o  Rally is like menhirs wall, its good for what it does, and having it is miles better than not having. :) Even if it only blocks arrows from trash mobs, that is the damage you do not take and won't need to heal with adcth or pots. 25% recharge from Jade Emperor is enough for full uptime of the ultimate rank skill. Feels like Jade Emperor is not even needed actually, you will be waiting for rally, not quick recovery.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 11 July 2018, 19:17:46
I can't understand what you're trying to say here.. at first I thought you accidently wrote "rally" instead of quick recovery.. but your last sentence made me confused even more.. waiting for rally? I've never been in a situation where I'm forced to wait it.. it is only used when not even a potion can counteract huge and sudden reductions in health pool.. like a manual death ward if you will.. I don't care about its reflection, elemental resistance buff or energy regeneration.. so I never use it as a buff, but of course its just my preference and I'm not saying this should be the optimal way to use it..

Now, seriously, have a look at this and sincerely tell me what would have happened if QR wasn't up in this spot.. what would have changed? would he really get seriously injured?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXMGWIJ8v4

These kinds of situations are trivial to a well prepared player.. CC skills, defensive stats, ADCtH, debuffs and whatnot... you already have more than enough utilities to stand against trash mobs man.. so no, it is not miles better than not having it (if you actually mean QR there).. it is just a waste of 8 valuable skill points.. 
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 11 July 2018, 20:03:31
What entartains me is how you judge skills to be waste for some drawbacks. They do what they are supposed to do, block damage up to what your shield allows, no more, no less.

That must be a bad example, most of my caster and ranged glass builds can facetank formicyds. You should try that with machae or in other really nasty areas. Is that a summoner? If you need an exuse to spend these points on pets, just do that, thats a perfecly valid exuse, pets are important if you use them. Block is universally useful to stop any attack, including those carrying CC and debuff. Had there been defiler, you could have tried disallowing broken, normal and magic items from dropping, then go to the same area and see what happens when someone pounds you with Sapros while others swinging rares. Just for example.

Yes, rally can do all these things, reflect and regen, or heal if you don't want either.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 11 July 2018, 20:30:06
i actually don't understand why you think a skill that greatly reduces block recovery isn't good.. peace Hector, I'll just offer my own take.. a shield blocks all types of damage even DoT.. the bad side is they have 2.5 to 3 seconds of cooldown.. quick recovery reduces that by 81% at ultimate max.. that would be 0.475 to 0.57.. if you can block incoming damage every half second, that would be really good.. now a shield can only block the amount of damage listed on the description (%chance to block x damage).. if you expect it can make a shitty shield very good, that is not what it does.. or if you expect you are now immortal once you have it up, that would be expecting too much.. or if you want it to be very good at lvl 1, that also would be expecting too much.. it is not a one point wonder.

i haven't played defense in AE/R but it doesn't look like it has changed much.. the most i got any of my defense chars in TQIT was epic and even there i felt quick recovery's worth.. i played a conqueror on legendary but the character was not mine.. even for a conqueror, maxed quick recovery was noticeably helpful.

here is what Poinas had to say in his all skills guide:
Quote
Quick Recovery

Effects
Level 1:

50 energy cost
18 seconds duration
-32% shield recovery time
+10% armor absorption
+4% shield block

Level 8:

50 energy cost
34 seconds duration
-80% shield recovery time
+10% armor absorption
+18% shield block


Description

Makes your shield block more often, and increases the effectiveness of your armor. Active skill. 60 seconds of cooldown.


Skillpoint allocation

Awesome skill that greatly reduces the damage you take. 8 points here are not wasted, unless you are already tough as a wall of bricks. All shields have 2,5-3,0 seconds of cooldown by default, QR greatly reduces that time. If you can reach -100% shield recovery time, 100% shield block and enough -%recharge to sustain QR all the time, you basically can't die other than against bosses.

Rating
10/10
in AE/R, shield recovery time has been capped at 90%.. shield block chance remains uncapped if I'm not mistaken
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 11 July 2018, 20:45:19
Hey mammoth_hunter,

I didn't mean to judge anything dude, we are just writing our opinions.. and I think you should consider the potential mistakes humans can do.. even game developers.. they are just people like us and they have flaws like we do, don't you think?

You sound like every skill, every little aspect of this game means to serve a purpose.. and I simply say that these things are made by "humans" and humans are not flawless beings.. I mean really, for example, do you accept that bullshit change on scatter shot arrows in Hunting?.. transforming it into a "bleed" skill while removing the only thing that used to make it viable.. >:( how is this not a flaw? how is this suppose to serve a "purpose" ?.. if these devs had any sense, they wouldn't have made it this way.. or, if you're gonna change something, make an actual f******* revolution and remove the UNDEAD from the game entirely (I don't know, merge them into magical category or something) so that people can actually get excited to use bleeding, poison and maybe even life leech..

Please tell me if I ask too much.. not just for myself but for all the frustrated players here or anywhere..   
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 11 July 2018, 20:54:52
Sure, developers are strange  :)

I believe its the mentality of all or nothing that is wrong. Invulnerability ftw or not touching the skill. The skill offers you a small-to-average boost to defense, which might be critical, or it might not. With changes to make all these caps to stats like block too the game made a grim dawnish turn. And look at that game, if it gives you hp skill, its 25%, not over 100%, 5% DA not 100% DA. Small increments to sum up into decisive advantage. A small thing you say? Excellent, might be just the thing that tips the balance to your favor.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 11 July 2018, 21:01:34
Quote
i actually don't understand why you think a skill that greatly reduces block recovery isn't good.. peace Hector, I'll just offer my own take.. a shield blocks all types of damage even DoT.. the bad side is they have 2.5 to 3 seconds of cooldown.. quick recovery reduces that by 81% at ultimate max.. that would be 0.475 to 0.57.. if you can block incoming damage every half second, that would be really good.. now a shield can only block the amount of damage listed on the description (%chance to block x damage).. if you expect it can make a shitty shield very good, that is not what it does.. or if you expect you are now immortal once you have it up, that would be expecting too much.. or if you want it to be very good at lvl 1, that also would be expecting too much.. it is not a one point wonder.

i haven't played defense in AE/R but it doesn't look like it has changed much.. the most i got any of my defense chars in TQIT was epic and even there i felt quick recovery's worth.. i played a conqueror on legendary but the character was not mine.. even for a conqueror, maxed quick recovery was noticeably helpful.

You are right about DOT damage types botebote and I somehow knew someone would bring this up.. while I'm glad you did it, it doesn't change the fact that QR won't protect you against real dangers (ok, except Yougai to a certain degree and the Troll mages maybe).. have anyone ever experienced a situation like facing Toxeus and benefiting from this skill during that kind of a fight? hell, even against a cyclops, what can it do that armor, resistance, DA or anything else can not? yes, it does what it says but only in situations you're already prepared against.. I have never suffered any serious damage due to not having this skill up.. it has been always something which already bypasses blocking mechanics entirely..
Lastly, no one should expect from any skill to completely protect them from harm, I'm aware of that.. but for instance, Rally means something and actually does something even against enemies like Toxeus, right? It doesn't make you immortal, but it gives you a solid protection, a second chance, a reality check at the last moment, whatever you wanna name it.. that kind of benefit is something QR does not have in situations like these.. that's all I'm saying.. 
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 11 July 2018, 21:16:03
Sure, developers are strange  :)

I believe its the mentality of all or nothing that is wrong. Invulnerability ftw or not touching the skill. The skill offers you a small-to-average boost to defense, which might be critical, or it might not. With changes to make all these caps to stats like block too the game made a grim dawnish turn. And look at that game, if it gives you hp skill, its 25%, not over 100%, 5% DA not 100% DA. Small increments to sum up into decisive advantage. A small thing you say? Excellent, might be just the thing that tips the balance to your favor.

Hmm, that "all or nothing" mentality actually makes sense.. that could also be an evidence on how so many gamers turned into people with obsessive compulsive disorders.. I don't know if its related with today's gaming culture but somehow the system injects a doze of perfectionism into people.. I can't explain it in words right now but it is something similar to what p*** industry trying to do with feti*hist people.. aiming to corrupt troubled minds even more and turning them into "slave" type consumers.. I hope it makes sense  :o   
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 11 July 2018, 23:01:09
I don't know where zero sum attitude comes from, but would have thought Titan Quest had these stats like that because its old. "Balance" wasn't common enough to pursue at the time in a single player game.

I'll be going to act 5 legendary with -50% bleed resistance and less than 5K hp now, and without briar wards or menhir walls. Thats where I'd appreciate 100% uptime quick recovery. If I only had it  :(

Perhaps it is not fair that the build that is supposed to be classic defense, heavy armored melee, benefits from it the least. But the skill itself is fine and not broken. It has to do with armor values on heavy armor being almost in the same range as damage blocked on shields. Armor can be improved but "+%damage blocked" stat does not exist, or is it so rare that I do not remember a single item with this. It exists in Grim dawn.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: tholuneve on 12 July 2018, 05:27:19
I have tried to convince other players in other forums that quick recovery is overrated in current version, but few agreed. So it's glad to see someone who tried and holds the same opinion.

So before we say something is good or bad, I think we should look at the mechanism first, and that is where the problems raise.
The first mechanism is what botebote77 already mentioned, block recovery cap: In AE/R, shield recovery time (or maybe just call it block cooldown) has been capped at 90%, which is 0.25 sec or 0.3 sec.
Personally I think that is the second most stupid change AE made. Obviously the most stupid change is the huge nerf in scatter shot which also has been mentioned above. I am not saying scatter shot is not OP, it deserve some nerf but defenitely not reduce its damage by 80%. To those who think the bleeding damage would compensate, I would like to say that the bleeding damage from scattor shot now does NOT stack with bleeding damage from any other sources. So even undead isn't a problem, this skill is completely ruined. Well I'm a little bit off topic...
What does the 0.25/0.3 sec mean? First, when you face a pack of monsters, with the cooldown in block, you cannot block all of them as you did in IT. Instead you can only block some of them. The higher the number of monsters and attack speed of monsters, the lower % of attacks you can block. Or in other words, the more dangerous situation you face, the less block will help. Second, some boss and hero skills are actually multi-projectiles, although they may not look like so. Without the cooldown cap in block, you can block all of them which means you take literally zero damage. However with that stupid coolddown, you can only block one for these projectiles, which means you take almost full damage.
Based on the decription above it might seems block is OP in IT and should be nerfed. But there is another mechanism that prevented block to become actually OP, and that same mechanism has made block even less useful in current version, which is: you can only block damage that lower than the shield block cap. Any damage that is higher than the damage a shield can block, will simply bypass block and do full damage on you. According to what I learned, that "damage" refers to the number which already calculated all the damage modifiers from attacker's side (in this case monster's), but not defender's resistances, armor and damage absorption. For DoTs, use the "damage per second" number to compare, not total damage. So for example, an attack that would deal 800 damage to you but actually deals 400 because of 50% resistance, a shield with 799 block amount cannot block it. In reality, with good shield in accordance with your progression equipped, it is not so common in IT to find some monster damage that would bypass shield block cap. However, such situation becomes pretty common in AE, since the increase in damage of monsters is higher than the increase in shield block cap, and new purple shields are not so satisfying in other stats so they are generally not used in the first place. So generally speaking, it's good agains monster with lower damage, but do nothing to stronger ones.
To make things worse (or better in certain situations), the system will first roll if an attack is blocked or not. If yes, then check every single damage of that attack, see whether it is higher than shield block cap. Regardless of the result, block is now in cooldown. So it is possible that you blocked, but all damage bypass block cap, nothing happens but your block is in cooldown. It is also possible that a seemingly very high damage attack which consists of several small damage can be fully blocked.
Moreover, for melee attacks, block is checked after crit check. So if it crit, it's the crit damage that wuold compare with your shield block cap. And since the actual block CHANCE is related to DA/OA, it is much harder for a character with low DA to block melee since first you have less chance to block and even if you block the crit damage is very likely to bypass it. On the other hand, a character with high DA is much easier to block due to more chance to block and the reverse-crit. Now that go back to the similar conclusion that has already occured twice: when you are less reliant on block (you have high DA), block performs well; when you really want block to help you (you have low DA), block performs poor.

To conclude, the whole block mechanism works better on smaller monster pack, lower enemy attack speed, less damage of single attack, and higher DA characters; and work poorly or totally doesn't work on opposite situation. That says, block will makes you safer when you are already not in danger, but it will not likely to save you (although sometimes it will) when you face real challenge.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 12 July 2018, 07:01:32
tholuneve, your mechanics contradicts with this

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=148217054

Quote
The good news is that your shield comes into play after armour and resistances are taken into account.

has that been changed in AE or ragnarok? if so, that would be really bad.. but i have not read anything in the changelogs

as whether it is overrated or not, i cannot say because i don't know how other people see this.. it is not an immortality skill but it definitely isn't useless.. and as I've said earlier, you will still need a good shield

regarding scatter shot scaling with bleed.. i did some testing a long time ago and i still remember a bit from it.. i am inclined to agree it does not scale with other bleeds like anatomy.. i am not 100% sure with this but i am inclined to agree with you based on my tests.. but the weird part is it seems to scale with dex although you need very very very high dex for it to be noticeable on legendary.. i got it to about 1500 before i saw a bit of improvement (lolz).. casting study prey flush out makes it more noticeable though

i once said that the nerf should be about 50% or something close to that.. definitely not 80%.. the real nerf it got is the fact that bleed does not stack.. i mean stacking attack speed and then the damage is bleed.. hitting a monster with 2 or more fragments is almost the same as hitting it with 1, it just resets the duration and get the bleed to the highest damage but it will not stack.. the 20% pierce is very little to notice
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: tholuneve on 12 July 2018, 07:53:25
tholuneve, your mechanics contradicts with this

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=148217054

Quote
The good news is that your shield comes into play after armour and resistances are taken into account.

has that been changed in AE or ragnarok? if so, that would be really bad.. but i have not read anything in the changelogs

as whether it is overrated or not, i cannot say because i don't know how other people see this.. it is not an immortality skill but it definitely isn't useless.. and as I've said earlier, you will still need a good shield

regarding scatter shot scaling with bleed.. i did some testing a long time ago and i still remember a bit from it.. i am inclined to agree it does not scale with other bleeds like anatomy.. i am not 100% sure with this but i am inclined to agree with you based on my tests.. but the weird part is it seems to scale with dex although you need very very very high dex for it to be noticeable on legendary.. i got it to about 1500 before i saw a bit of improvement (lolz).. casting study prey flush out makes it more noticeable though

i once said that the nerf should be about 50% or something close to that.. definitely not 80%.. the real nerf it got is the fact that bleed does not stack.. i mean stacking attack speed and then the damage is bleed.. hitting a monster with 2 or more fragments is almost the same as hitting it with 1, it just resets the duration and get the bleed to the highest damage but it will not stack.. the 20% pierce is very little to notice
That's not my mechanics, honestly. That's the result tested, written and confirmed by "ancient" players in my region. If it is incorrect, it would be horrible. And I am pretty sure they have been retested.
Regardless, even if I was wrong on that one, the conclusion remains. It's not just theory, but also actual testing results. It's not hard to observe the damage that you cannot block in AE, regardless of the sequance of block and resistance.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 12 July 2018, 08:14:20
titanquest.wikia also says it happens after resists

http://titanquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shields

Quote
Example

A projectile gets blocked by a shield with a Chance to Block 60 Damage.

If not blocked, after resists that attack would do:

50 Fire Damage from weapon (50 < 60 → blocked, 0 damage)
60 Fire Damage (60 = 60 → blocked, 0 damage) and 70 Vitality Damage (70 > 60 → not blocked, 70 damage) from an artifact
111 Burn Damage over 3.0 Seconds from a skill (111/3 < 60 → blocked, 0 damage)

it specifically said after resists

there is also this line

Quote
The damage is already reduced by armor and resistances.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 12 July 2018, 08:36:59
i researched more and found this

https://fextralife.com/titan-quest-stat-build-guide-a-general-overview/

Quote
The good news though, is that the damage you must Block is calculated after Armor and Resistances, so there is a much higher chance for you to succeed.

i don't know the credibility of that site though.. it seems written just recently.. dated March 28, 2018
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: tholuneve on 12 July 2018, 10:58:53
titanquest.wikia also says it happens after resists

http://titanquest.wikia.com/wiki/Shields

Quote
Example

A projectile gets blocked by a shield with a Chance to Block 60 Damage.

If not blocked, after resists that attack would do:

50 Fire Damage from weapon (50 < 60 → blocked, 0 damage)
60 Fire Damage (60 = 60 → blocked, 0 damage) and 70 Vitality Damage (70 > 60 → not blocked, 70 damage) from an artifact
111 Burn Damage over 3.0 Seconds from a skill (111/3 < 60 → blocked, 0 damage)

it specifically said after resists

there is also this line

Quote
The damage is already reduced by armor and resistances.
That's interesting. Everything is exactly what I said except this one. Let me think about how to test it.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: tholuneve on 12 July 2018, 11:14:30
i researched more and found this

https://fextralife.com/titan-quest-stat-build-guide-a-general-overview/

Quote
The good news though, is that the damage you must Block is calculated after Armor and Resistances, so there is a much higher chance for you to succeed.

i don't know the credibility of that site though.. it seems written just recently.. dated March 28, 2018
That seem to be a rather old one regardless of the date.
IMO, it seems these fundamental things were likely to be tested by a few "celebrities" and spreaded everywhere. Players simply believe in these veterans and never doubted that. So maybe its not helpful to find which one is more convincing. Just test again on current version.  O0
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 12 July 2018, 12:34:31
tbh i would've believed it more if it was written a long time ago

but of course date doesn't prove anything so i looked at the author: Castielle

i don't recognize the name.. doesn't ring a bell
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 12 July 2018, 12:49:49
decided to read a bit more

Quote
Players can reduce the amount of damage that their Armor “lets through” by increasing their Armor Absorption. Armor Absorption adds directly with the 66% modifier that all players have by default, so for example if you have +14% Armor Absorption then your modifier becomes 80%
welp there goes the credibility of the author.. he got many things right but not this one.. armor absorption is multiplicative, not additive

well it's unfair for me to say it's not to be trusted but at the very least, what is written there should be taken with a bit caution

edit: and he said each health and energy point gives 40 HP and MP.. those are TQIT values but his pics are ragnarok

welp :-X

edit 2: or she

i wonder why Seidr bones for a templar
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 12 July 2018, 15:07:33
So before we say something is good or bad, I think we should look at the mechanism first, and that is where the problems raise.
The first mechanism is what botebote77 already mentioned, block recovery cap: In AE/R, shield recovery time (or maybe just call it block cooldown) has been capped at 90%, which is 0.25 sec or 0.3 sec.
Personally I think that is the second most stupid change AE made.
You are not supposed to have that. Nothing that resembles invulnerability, or can possibly be made into such, has its place in the game. It is broken mechanics that trivialize the game. Make it too uneven depending on whether you have it or not. Damn, why am I pushing this idea here over and over, like its new.

Instead you get a not-out-of-ordinary defense mechanic that you can add to all the others that you use. Or not, perhaps you do not want it, players shouldn't be penalized for not taking skills because they are press this button to win.

Apparently, though Nordic did the first step of nerfing it, they didn't do the second one, that is balancing the flat numbers against mobs in game. Max damage blocked, but maybe block recovery cap too. When expansion mobs level and stats went up, these flat numbers went out of touch again. What was it in previous time, summoners and their pets? It should require an active dev team willing to do that sort of balancing though, so not sure if Nordic gets to the problem any time soon.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 12 July 2018, 15:35:44
want to add something.. how about in the case of ice shard Paladin.. I've only played it in TQIT but I'm sure I'm not the only one and probably some players have played it in ragnarok.. that build would be str + int but keeping str to minimum.. no dex or very little at best.. that also means very little defensive ability.. defense of that build relies heavily on shield block and that is where quick recovery shines.. iirc i had it maxed on that build.. meh i feel stupid defending this skill
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 12 July 2018, 19:43:13
I have no idea why you people so religiously defend such things as if your life depends on them.. I'm really throwing the towel here, you win..
I actually felt bad about tholuneve more than I did for myself here, because he used all that time to write those long paragraphs just to be refuted again and again to no end..
To you, its crucial and needed for a defender.. to me, its an aimless skill as it is (active skill).. as I mentioned before, amgoz did actually manage to bring some sense into it by integrating it to the Adrenaline tree as a passive skill in Soulvizier.. it was a brilliant idea because a trivial skill such as this one can only belong to a skill tree by being a passive utility, so that you don't have to worry about going through unnecessary casting animations in the heat of battles.. if it triggers, good.. wouldn't hurt.. if it doesn't, who cares..
Lets just agree to disagree.. 

Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 13 July 2018, 03:34:06
ahhh now i get it.. for you it's good if it's passive but since you have to recast it again and again it gets tedious right? now i can't fault you here.. this depends on the preference of the player.. btw you don't really have to recast it again and  again.. i mean why would you need it against satyrs? just select mobs, dragonians would be a good example.. iirc amgoz nerfed the values in favor of being passive

now for me as a player, having to recast it every minute isn't really a pain.. actually, the reason why i find defense to be the most boring mastery :D is because (1)it locks you to a shield and (2)it lacks active skills.. that is not to say it is weak, hell no.. i just find other masteries to be more enjoyable.. my str + dex melee bonecharmer, gear was towards CDR items to get call of the hunt and unearthly power permanent.. that meant having to recast call of the hunt every minute and dark covenant every 30secs.. i did not find it tedious at all

my skinchanger, upon encounter of every mob, i had to recast briar ward, guardian stones, plague, freezing mines and refresh.. every mob.. that is excluding my attacks thunder strike and rune weapon.. not to mention i also had to recast energy armor and rune of life from time to time.. so it depends on the preference of the player

i think this is getting out of hand.. i mean you don't really think it is useless right? it is not an "i win" skill but certainly not useless.. like, i play casters i don't use onslaught so that one is useless.. that would be ridiculous
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 13 July 2018, 09:33:52
so i tested it along with runeword:absorb.. the 90% capping really is a nerf.. maybe some people still see this as a 10/10 skill because Poinas rated it as such.. maybe that's where the overrated thing comes from? it's far from a 10/10 skill now

however, the skill still serves its purpose.. i used koderkrazy's show damage mod so i can clearly see the damage numbers.. i tested it against act 4 Lamia beastmen on legendary and yeah against heavy mobs, i was still taking way too much damage.. however, i also see some monster's hits make no damage.. that meant i was blocking more attacks when i have it up.. so i tested it against only 1 monster just to confirm, and I'm taking no damage at all.. so it got nerfed alright, but you still block more attacks once you have it up
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 13 July 2018, 13:28:39
I have no idea why you people so religiously defend such things as if your life depends on them.. I'm really throwing the towel here, you win..
I actually felt bad about tholuneve more than I did for myself here, because he used all that time to write those long paragraphs just to be refuted again and again to no end..
Arguing on the internet is tireing isn't it? If he spent all the time writing it he won't be regretting it, but why do you even do that? Its clear without explaining, what is important is yours conclusions.

Situation: the skill does not live up to your expectations. What do?

Lets get rid of it quick, not wasting a single point in it

or

Keep it if you have points, there are no useless defense layers.


You are going to throw block out of the window in a dedicated block build. You mad bro. TQ is a simplistic game ofc, maybe it will tolerate that too for what play time you have left on that character.

Also, its not like weather you know, the wind has blown and your block has broke. Its numbers that can be fixed, you just have to find a way to tell the people working on it. :)
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 13 July 2018, 18:56:54
Quote
ahhh now i get it.. for you it's good if it's passive but since you have to recast it again and again it gets tedious right?

Yes, we could put it like that I guess.. you know, I actually hate using the "I" language so much, because it shouldn't be about just one individual or a few people.. when expressing an issue, I always try hard to make the case look like it isn't just about me but everyone else but in the end, it doesn't look that way unfortunately..

Quote
Arguing on the internet is tireing isn't it?


I get what you mean buddy.. it especially creates extra tension and uncomfortable mood if you're arguing with people whom you get along well or simply have good intentions towards in general..

I don't know how we can find a way to tell the people working on these issues because I don't believe they are working on real issues anyway :P
They just polished the game, took all the efforts of guys (fanpatch fixes) who actually cared about this game and presented it like they created something better after 10 years.. I never trust devs, makers, anything wired tightly to the system itself.. I only care about other players and their efforts to be honest..

Well, it seems like another heated topic has been left behind.. see you in the future arguments gentlemen  :) 
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 13 July 2018, 19:43:30
I'll write something i think we will both agree in.. and no I'm not writing just so we can have something to agree :) ..  I've been wanting to write it for a while now.. I've actually started writing it a while ago (in my head).

but I'm not criticizing skills.. I'm criticizing items.. I'm at peace with just about every skill in the game.. i actually like that everything can be useful even at late stages of the game, even a tier 1 skill.. and i think they beat diablo 2 at skill design.. that putting points on lower tiered skills improves higher tiered skills is a lame attempt at convincing people that lower tiered skills are still good even late game.. those never existed in the earlier versions, just in the later updates.. i believe they did it to keep up with newer games but they failed at that imo
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: Hector on 14 July 2018, 20:05:40
What is it about? the game itself or something else?

About Diablo, yeah that synergy bullshit right? it was one of the things that made the game lost its appeal for me as well.. I hate people always say that Titan Quest is the most decent Diablo clone.. even this is supposed to be a positive comment, it is still an insult to our beloved game.. yes, Diablo II was a classic and will remain as that but I've never considered TQ as a clone of that game.. TQ in fact did exceed Diablo.. it is a better game and I'm not even talking about better graphics.. story, gameplay, everything is better in TQ.. maybe just one exception; Diablo managed to implement skills that don't require cooldown mechanics.. this seeming advantage could not be abused and the game was still challenging despite it..   
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 15 July 2018, 09:54:09
What is it about? the game itself or something else?

this it but i wanted to keep it light, so...
https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=547.msg5719#msg5719

About Diablo, yeah that synergy bullshit right?
yes exactly
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: tholuneve on 15 July 2018, 10:20:43
OK I tested, and confirmed that block happens BEFORE resistance take into effect.
The test is as follows. Find a shield, in my case I bought one from Epic A1, which has 193 block amount. Go to Legendary A5, find these Empusa, kill all but leave one alone. Now unequip everything that grants the resistance of that Empusa does, and see how block works. No block at all.
Now equip everything that grants resistance of that damage type, make it as high as possible. In my case I made my fire resistance 69%, and the damage from Empusa per hit is around 140, which is lower than the shield block amount. Still, as I expected, still no block at all.
If resistances is to work before block, then I should be able to block the attacks from Empusa after I raised my resistance.
The test above is very easy to repeat. You can test it on your own if you don't believe in that.

Note:
Consider the test above the damage and block amount is kinda close, I did a further test. This time find another shield with 329 block amount and further raised my resistance so that the damage is around 100 per hit. Still no block.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 15 July 2018, 10:27:58
I've been with a templar through that same area, start of act 4 legendary, and formycids are really a bad example. Lamias just above can do more, and any archers even more. Both would make an opposite example.

I didn't try to get max pierce resistance on that character though, and exactly for the reason that block exists.
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: botebote77 on 15 July 2018, 11:15:40
don't want to do any more tests I'm too lazy for that.. i can't even use my PC right now it's having problems.. btw those are not my mechanics too i merely provided links to

1) steamcommunity
2) titanquest.wikia
3) something that i previously debunked

and I've tested quick recovery before and it works.. so it's not useless because the only way it would be useless is if it doesn't work

one thing i noticed about your tests, you used it against empusa but empusa deal AoE damage right? shield can't block that right? it's not that i don't trust you man but i think empusa is not the right monster to test it with.. actually i don't care if it's before or after.. it's not a big issue for me
Title: Re: Quick Recovery and the Runesmith
Post by: tholuneve on 15 July 2018, 14:08:59
don't want to do any more tests I'm too lazy for that.. i can't even use my PC right now it's having problems.. btw those are not my mechanics too i merely provided links to

1) steamcommunity
2) titanquest.wikia
3) something that i previously debunked

and I've tested quick recovery before and it works.. so it's not useless because the only way it would be useless is if it doesn't work

one thing i noticed about your tests, you used it against empusa but empusa deal AoE damage right? shield can't block that right? it's not that i don't trust you man but i think empusa is not the right monster to test it with.. actually i don't care if it's before or after.. it's not a big issue for me
I tested mainly on Empusa's basic attack, not its aoe skills. But since you mentioned that, it seems that aoe skill is actually projectile+ranged which can be blocked, because when I use another shield (Achilles Shield), I was able to block both Empusa's basic attack AND its aoe skill. It's pretty clear and easy to observe, I stood in the flame, with quick recovery on, and took literally no damage at all.