Titan Quest Fans Forum
Titan Quest - Anniversary Edition => Anniversary Edition - General discussion => Topic started by: Laionidas on 15 December 2017, 12:04:40
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So, since Ragnarok came with a new mastery, I figured I'd take a look at the possibilities that come with the new classes.
Let's start by stating that the Rune mastery seems to be developped for hybrids, as even its weapon based skills boost intelligence and convert to elemental damage. Bearing that in mind, I came up with the following core builds, using JollyGreenFox's modified TitanCalc (http://steamcommunity.com/app/475150/discussions/0/2549465882914728771/):
- Stonespeaker (Rune & Earth) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc53b553b5rune.html?mastery=Stonespeaker&master1=1&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-12-0-8-1-0-0-1-16-0-10-8-0-0-0-12-0-0-12-8-0-0&m2=32-12-6-1-16-1-0-0-1-10-0-0-12-10-1-12-1-0-6-0-1-0-0) This is probably the most obvious combination, since Earth has in fact a lot of physical damage buffs. Corey eats up a lot of skillpoints if you want him, but in exchange you're pretty much set with this build. Take a bow in one loadout and any melee weapon in the pther, and you're
good to go. - Thunderer (Rune & Storm) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc464c464crune.html?mastery=Thunderer&master1=8&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-0-10-0-0-8-0-0-12-0-0-0-6-12-0-0-1-12-0-8-0&m2=32-12-6-1-16-1-9-0-1-0-10-0-12-0-1-12-1-0-6-0-1-0-0) The best build if you want to go for full elemental melee conversion. Compare it to a bow Sage (Storm & Hunting). Looks like a lot of fun with the combination of Rune's Thunder Strike, and Storm's Squall and maxed out Storm Surge.
- Runesmith (Rune & Defense) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc738c738crune.html?mastery=Runesmith&master1=5&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-0-12-0-0-12-12-0-6-6-6-1-1-0-6-8-6-6-12-8-6-0&m2=32-12-6-1-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-12-0-0-12-8-0-0-8-0) Rune actually has good shield skills too, making Defense an excellent secondary mastery, if you do not want elemental melee. Runeword: Absorb, Energy Armor, and Defense's skills together, possibly make this the tankiest build ingame, with probably better damage output than any other t
anky build. - Trickster (Rune & Rogue) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc41c841c8rune.html?mastery=Trickster&master1=6&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-0-6-12-0-0-8-0-0-12-0-0-12-0-12-8-8-0-8-0-0&m2=32-12-6-1-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-12-0-1-12-1-0-0-0-6-0-0) Another option for those that do not want elemental melee. This class goes big on bleeding. The name "Trickster" bothers me though, because I thought it was used for a different class in the past, but maybe I mixing things up with Grim Dawn.
- Dragon Hunter (Rune & Hunting) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc39343934rune.html?mastery=Dragon Hunter&master1=7&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-0-1-6-0-12-6-0-0-1-0-8-0-1-8-0-1-0-6-0-6-0&m2=32-12-6-1-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-12-0-1-12-1-0-0-0-1-0) The final real non elemental melee alternative. A classic "take-the-excellent-Hunting-mastery-first-and-then-add-anything-else" build. Bit boring if you'd ask me, but the combination of Rune Weapon and Volley seems nice. You could probably do a bow build too, but I don't see why, as it would leave the Rune mastery with litt
le to add. - Seidr Worker (Rune & Dream) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc38b838b8rune.html?mastery=Seidr Worker&master1=9&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-0-0-0-0-8-12-6-0-0-8-0-0-0-0-1-6-0-12-0-1-0&m2=32-12-6-1-16-1-9-0-1-0-10-0-12-0-1-12-0-0-6-0-1-0-0) Rune is a melee mastery with elemental support, Dream is a caster mastery with melee support; a match made in heaven. The most notable feature is the very specific electrical burn damage on Unleash, and how well it synergizes obviously with Dream's specifications.
- Shaman (Rune & Spirit) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc70707070rune.html?mastery=Shaman&master1=2&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-6-0-0-8-1-1-0-0-16-1-0-8-0-1-0-1-1-1-1-1-0&m2=32-12-6-1-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-12-0-0-12-1-0-0-0-0-0-0) Now we're getting to the less interesting Rune involved classes. Everything about this option is just "meh,..", or rather "melee Diviner does it better". Also, it's another class name that triggers me. Very confusing, as Grim Dawn's Shaman was more like a Thunderer.
- Skinchanger (Rune & Nature) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4rune.html?mastery=Skinchanger&master1=4&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-0-16-1-0-1-0-16-1-0-0-0-8-16-6-12-12-0-1-8-12-0&m2=32-12-6-1-16-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-12-0-0-12-1-0-6-0-0-0-0) Can be fun if you like pets. I do, but I allready have a Guardian. The interesting thing about this class is that Briar Ward and Rune mastery offer some retaliation damage options.
- Berserker (Rune & Warfare) (https://titanquestragnarokcalc.000webhostapp.com/TQRC/TitanCalc85a785a7rune.html?mastery=Berserker&master1=3&master2=10&sa=21&m1=32-6-1-8-6-8-6-0-6-1-10-1-6-6-1-6-8-0-6-6-0&m2=32-0-6-1-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-1-12-0-0-0-0-6-0-0) The single most useless Rune class out there. Wait, am I being serious? Yes, I am. Any physical melee toon with Warfare will be dual wielding, and for any physical melee toon with Warfare, Onslaught will always be the best LMB skill. This renders Rune Weapon and Runeword: Absorb, the Rune mastery's best physical melee inputs, completely obsolete. Basically, you just want Reckless Offense, and that's it.
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Yes, mastery/class names between TQAE and Grim Dawn are getting more and more confusing. Trickster is a GD class, but around half of GD's class names are from TQAE: Battlemage, Elementalist, Sorcerer, Pyromancer (TQAE's Earth mastery), Conjurer, Warlock, Spellbreaker, Spellbinder, Druid and Ritualist.
Question: could you use both Reckless Offense and Warfare's Dual Wield tree together? Theoretically should stack the damage (100% total from Rune mastery, 50% physical from Dual Wield's Hew synergy) as well as hitting more targets. And then there's Sacred Rage/Frightening Power, they might be good too.
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i have been away for quite a while.. Laionidas, i respectfully disagree with your assessments but i understand they're just your initial impressions.. i think there are many routes to building a character and perhaps some we will only see when we actually try it.. i actually see some synergies between warfare and rune.. first is what medea pointed out (DW tree and reckless offense).. 2nd is the %str from rune of life should boost onslaught (yes i will ignore rune weapon if i make a berserker).. 3rd, thunder strike still deals more physical than elemental so it benefits more from strength.. i swear i feel i deal stronger damage with my assassin if i charge onslaught first before attacking with lethal strike.. it should work the same with thunder strike.. the confusion from the 2nd upgrade of thunder strike also helps.. i think it would go well with 2 throwing weapons on secondary.. having RR in both should be a great help.. 4th, the runeword explode i think also works on melee, more attacks, more fragments
i think I'll pick berserker over seidr worker.. i can go on and on about other masteries but eh i don't feel like it.. cheers dude
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Unfortunately, Laionadis, apart from Runesmith and Dragon Hunter, none of your build ideas show the Rune part of the class in TitanCalc AER. And why stop the bonus skill points at 21? With the expansion - which is what gives you the Rune mastery to start with - bonus points now go up to 30. Also why assume people playing with Rune don't want to use the elemental parts? I haven't theorycrafted any yet, but I can see an elemental Berserker might be good fun. I've just started a ranged poison/elemental Trickster and I can see a possible Dragon Hunter bow build combining Marksmanship tree with Runeword: Explode/Burn.
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Well, that's a bit of a bore. Was theorycrafting a Thunderer thinking I might use Rune Weapon, but it doesn't work with a staff. :( Not sure about Thunder Strike either. Expected it to work like Ternion, but it fires off 5 projectiles and then has to recharge itself before it can do so again.
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Medea, Thunder Strike is very powerful. Put points initially into Unleash for skill disruption, confusion and more damage. Just alternate it with other attacks or spells.
If you want to use Rune Weapon, then consider using a throwing weapon instead of a staff. You lose certain benefits the staff has: + to energy regen, attack range and certain modifiers that can only be found on a staff. But, you gain other benefits. Your attack will be significantly faster, you will have more protection (shield), and 2 equipment slots (weapon and shield) instead of only one (staff). The Energy Drain skill will compensate for the loss of + to energy regen.
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Yeah, that's a possible Cleglaw. I can get used to it since I've played BG's LoC mod and that has throwing knives already. I've got a Sorcerer using knives there. It's more the mindset I guess: casters = staves. It's even more annoying that Rune Weapon also works with bows so the only weapon it doesn't work with are staves - yet it increases intel: ideal for a caster.
Thunder Strike was just a really quick test. Just pushed a new toon up enough to put a point in the base skill to see what it did. Will reserve judgement on that until I can give it a better tryout.
That's the one thing I'm not keen on with throwing weapons is their limited range. It's shorter than a bow/staff can reach so you have to get nearer and aggro foes when you wouldn't need to with a bow/staff. It's a bit odd since Rogue's Throwing Knife skill will go much further.
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It's more the mindset I guess: casters = staves.
not me.. i mostly play caster in any RPG games and i always wear a shield.. my mindset is casters don't use weapons so why use a staff? I'm also big on CCs be it caster, melee or ranged
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Dang, email notifications of replies still don't seem to work. Anyway,..
Unfortunately, Laionadis, apart from Runesmith and Dragon Hunter, none of your build ideas show the Rune part of the class in TitanCalc AER. And why stop the bonus skill points at 21?
You're right, I know, the Ragnarok calculator isn't stable yet. This is also why I stopped at 21 bonus points. The calculator doesn't show yet how far in the expansion you should have progressed for a set number of points. Also, I imagine there currently being a lot of people playing with characters that are in Epic or Legendary, but have not even tackled normal Ragnarok yet. Ofcourse, this can't be an issue with Rune mastery characters, but still I decided to ignore those extra points for now to get a better general impression of where these builds should be. It doesn't matter much anyway, since none of the builds go up to their max level. JollyGreenFox (http://steamcommunity.com/app/475150/discussions/0/2549465882914728771/) is currently talking to get the calculator uploaded to Kirmizi, which should mean most of the compatability and stability issues should be addressed soon.
Regarding the actual builds,..
i actually see some synergies between warfare and rune.. first is what medea pointed out (DW tree and reckless offense).. 2nd is the %str from rune of life should boost onslaught (yes i will ignore rune weapon if i make a berserker)
I think my choice of words may have caused a bit of misunderstanding. When I said "only Reckless Offense", I meant that you combine it with DW and Onslaught. The "only" refers to it being the only thing you really want Rune mastery for in that particular build, as you indeed should ignore Rune Weapon. This makes the class uninteresting for me, since every other Warfare involved class can do that basically (and often does), and you're not fully exploiting Rune mastery's unique capabilities. It does not however, make it a bad class at all. In fact, I'd say it'd do quite well.
Secondly, all the impression builds I posted were build strictly on the premise that Rune mastery would lend itself for a good (hybrid)melee/hybrid(melee) character. For example, I am sure that Stonespeaker, Thunderer, and Seidr Worker, have some viable caster options available too, but that was not my goal.
Finally, I always strive for balance between my primary and secondary mastery. It's a personal thing, but I want each of the two masteries to contribute aproximately the same amount to the respective build. This comes from TQ's rather strict mastery point handling: it has long since been established that for an optimal build, it is wise to max out both masteries, lest you'll be suffering a significant stat handicap. With both masteries maxed out by definition, I want my builds to utilise at least one top tier skill in each mastery. In GD this is much less of an issue, as gaining stats through mastery maxing is less important.