Author Topic: Thunderer Discussion  (Read 2603 times)

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Offline BeRad

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Thunderer Discussion
« on: 27 January 2018, 11:41:55 »
Hey Guys, I have been playing as a thunderer lately to try and get a feel for the new class. Mainly because Storm has always been a class that I have neglected in the past and the idea of a sword and shield elemental build sounded like fun.
At the moment, I'm in act 3 and I'm starting to think that I have made a terrible decision with how I have spent my stat points. Now that my toon is getting into some decent levels I'm starting to realize that I may have made a terrible mistake in investing all my stat points into str and dex with an emphasis on str.
Now that I think about it, even though I have a sword I probably should have been investing in int and dex then relying on Runeword:Feather in order to equip my weapon of choice (which has changed to thrown weapons instead of sword now). My thinking is that because damage is getting converted to elemental, my weapon is going to be dealing little or no physical damage so I should have been pumping int and dex in order to beef up that elemental damage?

My current build looks like https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc464c464crunee80e.html?mastery=Thunderer&master1=10&master2=8&sa=4&m1=32-10-1-1-1-0-2-0-0-0-2-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-1-1-0-0-0&m2=32-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-1-0

Has anyone else made a similar toon that can share some advice?

Offline Firebrand

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Re: Thunderer Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 27 January 2018, 17:53:35 »
Hello!

I haven't tried a Thunderer yet, but I have a Stonespeaker in legendary Act IV now, which is basically the same thing, only it has Earth instead of Storm. I've written up my experiences in another thread, but I'll try to answer your questions briefly.

First off, strength and dexterity work well if you don't put points into Transmutation. For many classes it's a viable alternative, however, Storm relies entirely on cold and lightning damage, so that's generally a problem. Since - as it's been pointed out - elemental conversion happens before the physical damage bonus from strength is applied, you're right in that it doesn't boost your damage much, and with Runeword: Feather you indeed don't need much strength to equip weapons.

How much strength do you have altogether? I made a very similar mistake with my Stonespeaker, although I was investing in intelligence from the very beginning, I just added a lot of unnecessary points into strength. Looking at your skills, your level shouldn't be too high, so it's possible you can still start boosting intelligence and end up with a great character. I've found the Stonespeaker still an amazing class even with a suboptimal stat distribution, I don't doubt that the Thunderer can do the same.

Much like you, I, too, switched to thrown weapons as well eventually. Generally a Thunderer or Stonespeaker isn't tough enough to go up against a lot of enemies in close combat, so thrown weapons seem to be the way there. Keep in mind that to equip the best thrown weapons available, you'll need about 400 dexterity, everything considered. I'd also consider Reckless Offense. You can dual-wield throwing weapons, and while you get a low attack speed cap with them (141%), doing so still comes with incredible advantages, the most obvious being that Thunder Strike suddenly fires five projectiles for each weapon you have equipped, which means you'll be devastating with it at close-to-medium ranges. If Reckless Offense triggers, you'll also throw two projectiles at your target at +100% total damage, which should take down just about anything.

Another thing I'd recommend is Runeword: Explode and its upgrade Runeword: Burn. While these deal physical, fire and burning damage, which are not your specialty, Runeword: Explode is especially good in that it's a free attack trigger that gives your projectiles an area of effect. It stuns the target, which is a good thing in itself, but it also applies any weapon effects (all damage, energy leech, stun, attack damage converted to health) to multiple enemies, provided they're standing close enough to each other.

Since throwing weapons have a limited range, it might be useful to pick up a skill that lets you attack enemy groups from a longer range, in case you don't want to get too close to them (in most cases, archers). Lightning Bolt is an amazing skill, and Squall is also great for debuffing enemies. I'd personally recommend both of them.

So in short: If your level is not too high, the situation might be salvageable. For any other class I'd probably just say that you could ditch Transmutation, but I doubt it's much of an option with a Thunderer; but I don't think it's too late nevertheless. Have fun!
« Last Edit: 27 January 2018, 17:56:11 by Firebrand »

Offline Hector

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Re: Thunderer Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 27 January 2018, 20:37:14 »
I have a Thunderer sitting on Act II Epic right now.. In addition to what has been said, Runeword: Feather should only be necessary if you're gonna wield a shield alongside with your throwing weapon of choice..

This is what I did and I actually started as a dual throwing char but then switched to a thrown weapon + shield combo and I must say it solved a lot of problems in the defensive side.. I'm also aware about the fact of dual Thunderstrike's effectiveness but it's not gonna save your life just by itself.. or even with reckless power's procs for that matter.. Single weapon Thunderstrike is still effective enough and gets the job done..

There are some good epic shields for a rune char (especially for a stonespeaker but its not a big difference) you can find in Act V and maybe you've already found them and I also strongly recommend a "Cold essence" full charm on your arm gear with the most suitable completion bonus of your choosing..

Relics and charms from Act V really make a difference for a rune based character.. hunt for them.. I recall one of them has a flat elemental damage + elemental conversion feature which ups DPS considerably in addition to the amount you already have from Rune Weapon tree.. I don't know what would happen if you go above 100% conversion rate though..

If I remember more, I'll add them as well.. 
« Last Edit: 27 January 2018, 21:04:02 by Hector »

Offline BeRad

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Re: Thunderer Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 27 January 2018, 21:04:52 »
Awesome advice, thank you.
My plan is to add squall in the near future and I really like the idea of adding runeword:explode for crowd control.
Iíll try pumping int  from now on, my toon is level 28 or 29 so I might be able to turn it into something decent still.
Iím also going thrown+shield, combined with thunder strike, it is just awesome. Another dilemma I have is the weapon I have is a sceletal darts from the beginning of act I which has fairly low damage but some excellent buffs. I think Iíll stick around and farm the tigermen for their thrown MI before moving on any further.

Overall, the thunderer is a super fun class, I think the potential in late game is going to be immense. It has a good amount of damage, crowd control and debuff.

I plan to do a stone speaker in the near future. I just need to finish legendary with my avenger first. (I donít like to over use one class at the same time). I keep finding items that would be perfect for a stone speaker but alas thunderer items are rather scarce. Iím hoping that will change once I hit act 5.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Thunderer Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 27 January 2018, 22:15:20 »
for storm, i can help you.. i wrote something about storm here:

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=248.msg2356#msg2356

i actually have a thunderer in epic but it's on the shelf atm.. the obvious synergy is static charge boosts both lightning bolt and thunder strike.. you don't need maxed rune weapon for now, you'll eventually want to max it but for now spread your skills first.. i have a favor to ask if you don't mind because I'm not playing TQ for about 2 more days.. can you check if zeus thunderbolt can be used on throwing weapons now? at first release of ragnarok it wasn't but maybe it's changed now
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline BeRad

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Re: Thunderer Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 27 January 2018, 22:26:58 »
Hi Botebote,
Yes I can confirm that Zeus thunder bolt can be equipped on thrown weapons. I have it equipped on the skeletal darts Iím using.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Thunderer Discussion
« Reply #6 on: 27 January 2018, 23:26:30 »
goodie thnx I'll have to play it again then.. one more tip: thunder strike with dual throwing is really good but if you want to wear a shield, you can still throw 10 projectiles by having 2 throwing on secondary.. my thunderer has 80% CDR.. main weapon right click is lighting bolt, secondary right click is thunder strike.. so it's just right click, W, right click, W, right click all the time.. with occasional rune weapon attack
i eat mana for breakfast
Spoiler for Hiden:
finished ragnarok xmax x3 with sorcerer, illusionist, mage haruspex, skinchanger

Offline Laionidas

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Re: Thunderer Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 08 February 2018, 13:12:32 »
My current build looks like https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc464c464crunee80e.html?mastery=Thunderer&master1=10&master2=8&sa=4&m1=32-10-1-1-1-0-2-0-0-0-2-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-1-1-0-0-0&m2=32-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-1-0

Has anyone else made a similar toon that can share some advice?

That current build of yours is way too low to say anything about it, but in general I think it is possible to play a Thunderer both as an elemental damage melee or hybrid, and as a physical melee character.

For a physical melee Thunderer, just don't take the conversions, and use the spells instead for crowd control and debuffs. Squall+Obscured Visibility and Aftershock are your biggest friends here, while the energy drain damage from Spell Breaker+Spell Shock can help with bosses. You should also have points left for the Wisp, which isn't so dependent on your toon's int., can stun mobs for you, and provides you with very decent cold resistance.

For a elemental hybrid Thunderer, I'd go for my Esdese's build, or a variant thereoff, like the one by botebote77. In this case, you convert as much damage as possible, and dual-wield melee only to distribute more elemental damage and carry two +% weapons.

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