Author Topic: Runesmith build advice  (Read 3213 times)

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Offline Hal900x

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Runesmith build advice
« on: 24 January 2018, 04:32:39 »
I have been letting my melee Runesmith in legendary idle while I tried out some other masteries. Rune is a new mastery and I've never run Defense before, so I need some advice.

- Adrenaline doesn't fire very often, in spite of the fact that recharge is capped at the lowest possible, 6 seconds. Does it have to be a melee hit that triggers it? If so that might explain it, considering my block chance is near 100% and my shield recharge is -100%. Also, can Adrenaline activate before the end of it's duration? I assumed that was the point of getting the CD lower and lower with it's synergy.
- Is Batter incompatible with Rune Weapon? In Grim Dawn, I avoided non-charging attacks if I had a charging attack bound to L mouse, on the theory that one less hit=one less charge. I'm concerned the every time I use Batter is one more second less of Rune Weapon charging. Plus, Batter doesn't seem to be very high damage overall, synergy included. Damage from my shield is slightly lower than my main hand weapon so I'm not really seeing the point.
- Pulverize, Disable and Shield Smash: What are the respective triggers for these to proc? Getting hit, dealing out a hit, etc? These are mostly CC procs, and I have them all at or around maxed out. Wondering if they are worth the investment.
- I read an old guide on the relationship between armor and shield. IIRC, you should use a high armor value on your gear to maximize the shield's defensive effectiveness. Can't find the guide now, can someone elaborate on this? I have good armor but in legendary I'm having to sacrifice resists for high armor values.

Thanks for the help.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #1 on: 24 January 2018, 05:09:45 »
can't help much because the last time i played defense was in TQIT.. but i seem to remember that with maxed resilience (i mean ultimate max with +4), adrenaline triggers often enough.. shield recovery is capped at 90%.. hmm if you're choosing between rune weapon and batter for your LMB, i vote rune weapon.. and the old guide armor and shield, i think i can expain.. shield block comes after resistances and armor.. and shield can't block more than the specified amount of damage it can block (X% chance to block X amount of damage).. so the higher armor you have, the lesser your shield will have to block.. eh did i explain that clearly enough? i know it's weird, you have to be hit in the armor first before you block it with the shield but it's the mechanics of this game.
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Offline Firebrand

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #2 on: 24 January 2018, 05:23:42 »
Now I haven't had a lot of experience with Defense (I think I've finished Normal way back with one, but I'm not sure if I'd gotten that far or just almost), but I've taken a character with Rune to Act IV legendary so far. I can't provide a lot of valuable insight, but maybe here's some help. (Also, I'm planning a Runesmith for my next Rune character for a real sword-and-magic archetype, but I'll probably do a few things first; Rune and Defense seem a match made in heaven for this, as Rune complements Defense with an active attack skill it sorely lacked, and the two together have a lot of attack triggers - see later.)

First and foremost, it's really important whether you want to use Transmutation or not. Other than your stat distribution, a lot of things depend on that. Since you say your Runesmith is in legendary, I assume that is already decided.

If you're using Transmutation, you're not even getting that much out of Adrenaline. The bonus health regeneration is good, and so is the total speed from Defensive Reaction, but that's about it. Since you're barely dealing any physical damage, a percentile increase to that doesn't do much at all.

I'd say Batter is still good if you're surrounded. Again, keep in mind I'm mostly talking for another perspective: for the majority of my characters, the only adequate response to being surrounded is hitting everyone at once, becuase otherwise they die too quickly. If your Runesmith is good at tanking (and I get the impression that it is so), then that might not be necessary for you. Batter's synergy also doesn't help you much if you're using Transmutation because enemy armor is irrelevant.

Pulverize, Disable and Shield Smash are all attack triggers; they have a chance to proceed on hit. I'd definitely recommend Pulverize, it's an amazing skill. (Again, I like the area-of-effect high-damage aspect, but reduced offensive ability and skill disruption are also surely nice things, too.) The other two are a bit less impressive, but I think also worth maxing out eventually. I don't know how those interact with Transmutation, though, personally.

It's one of the things that appeals to me about the Runesmith, actually; not only you get an active attack skill, but also four passive attack triggers. It's promising to be spectacular. It also probably tells you all you need to know about me that I'm looking at Defense for the attack triggers. Oh well.

I don't know much about armor and shield, personally. They haven't been my highest priorities in playing this game.

Offline Hal900x

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #3 on: 24 January 2018, 06:54:58 »
i seem to remember that with maxed resilience (i mean ultimate max with +4), adrenaline triggers often enough..
When I put points into Resilience, the CD does not decrease below 6 seconds, so I assumed that was the minimum
Quote
if you're choosing between rune weapon and batter for your LMB, i vote rune weapon
Nah, I keep Rune Weapon on LMB. I meant mixing it in occasionally from the hotbar. The concern is that Rune Weapon immediately decreases charges when you aren't attacking, and using Batter would take away precious seconds from building said charges. Rune Weapon has a very high number of potential charge levels, iirc 1 for each atttack up to something like 12 charges

First and foremost, it's really important whether you want to use Transmutation or not.
Indeed I am. Seems like a must with Rune.
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The bonus health regeneration is good, and so is the total speed from Defensive Reaction, but that's about it. Since you're barely dealing any physical damage, a percentile increase to that doesn't do much at all.
So the physical damage is added after the Elemental from Transmutation, not before, I assume. In that case, it's really only the speed I'm benefiting from, since my health regen is too low to even benefit from the boost. Gear is scarce in Legendary for me and I have to make all kinds of compromises, health regen being low priority for a tanky character like mine. That said, because of my lousy resists I am chugging potions like crazy.

Offline botebote77

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #4 on: 24 January 2018, 07:17:54 »
yes %physical damage happens after conversion.. i actually don't see why people think transmutation is a must if you have rune.. me, I'd rather add damage than convert it.. if you lack resists time for some farming then.. i actually tried a little farming myself recently to test the "bosses drop sh*t loot now"  thing that they say.. just a little like 3 typhon runs, 2 hades runs and about 12 surtr runs (some in xmax).. my early findings is that boss drops seem untouched.. it's just that surtr drop loots are terrible.. in 3 typhon runs i got like 2 purples.. Hades, can't remember but at least 1.. surtr, i farmed him the most but i only got 1 measly plouton's bracers.. and what's funny is just the one run leading to him, i got sybaris from black elf mobs and verdandi's knots from fire giants.. so if my theory is correct that act 1-4 boss loot are untouched, i recommend you farm hydra

(there's some weird thing in xmax surtr but i haven't read any about it yet so i don't know if it's only me)
« Last Edit: 24 January 2018, 07:26:50 by botebote77 »
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Offline Pazuzu

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #5 on: 24 January 2018, 12:11:43 »
I really hate the fact that runesmith adds intel into the mix, it would be so much better if you could choose to use rune weapon with strength only, something like a conqueror. But since that's not happening. I have spent all my att points into dex/strength in a 1:1 ratio up to level 25, i am nearing level 40 now and the remaining points are untouched until i decide what im going to do with them. I dont use rune weapon right now, my lmb is thunder strike instead. Thunder strike is better than batter at this point, but if i figure out how to use rune weapon i will dump the remaining points into INT. So how exactly does rune weapon work? What kind of weapon will i need for that to deal the most damage and is dumping points into INT going to help a lot? My point is that defense is a pure STR based char, it doesnt even give intellingence when you max the def tree, so if i eventually mix match int and strength for rune weapon to work, what kind of a result will i be looking at?
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Offline botebote77

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #6 on: 24 January 2018, 13:15:03 »
for my skinchanger, i have points in rune weapon up to the 3rd upgrade.. no transmutation.. she's going to be a hybrid petmaster most probably.. i'm planning to use sapros.. that has reduced resistances for the elem damage from rune weapon.. HoO will offset the -25% HP penalty
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Offline Hal900x

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #7 on: 24 January 2018, 23:39:41 »
This was my first toon when I picked TQ back up after many years away. I did no math or theorycrafting, just played her the way it seemed intended, a hybrid elemental damage fighter. I had hoped there were more +%Elemental gear in the game, but gear in general is much more scarce than other ARPGs, which is part of it's charm. I don't have the energy to revise the build since I do that constantly with my other toons. It is certainly a balancing act, having STR/INT/DEX all be important, but one positive side effect is I can wear pretty much anything with a bit of reduction gear.

Offline Laionidas

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Re: Runesmith build advice
« Reply #8 on: 26 January 2018, 11:34:08 »
- Pulverize, Disable and Shield Smash: What are the respective triggers for these to proc? Getting hit, dealing out a hit, etc? These are mostly CC procs, and I have them all at or around maxed out. Wondering if they are worth the investment.

Get all the shield procs, they don't cost energy, they're keyless, and they proc on hit. You need them to fight effectively with your shield as a weapon. Isn't thiw why one would pick Defense?

- Is Batter incompatible with Rune Weapon? In Grim Dawn, I avoided non-charging attacks if I had a charging attack bound to L mouse, on the theory that one less hit=one less charge. I'm concerned the every time I use Batter is one more second less of Rune Weapon charging. Plus, Batter doesn't seem to be very high damage overall, synergy included. Damage from my shield is slightly lower than my main hand weapon so I'm not really seeing the point.

I never use Batter, because I'll have my main attack under LMB, which in this case would be Rune Weapon, and I'd like Shield Charge under my RMB. Plus Batter is pretty much obsolete when you've maxed out the procs.

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