Titan Quest Fans Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Laionidas on 30 May 2018, 16:37:26

Title: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 30 May 2018, 16:37:26
Since buying Ragnarok, I've been playing a new character as an experiment. The idea is to see if Runeword: Explode and Runeword: Burn could provide a viable alternative to the nerfed Scatter Shot Arrows. I'm still in Act V Normal, but so far, it has proven to be fun.

Going for these skills at level 82 (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc53b553b5rune491c.html?mastery=Stonespeaker&master1=1&master2=10&sa=30&m1=32-12-0-8-1-12-0-1-16-0-0-8-8-0-0-12-0-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-10-6-1-16-1-10-0-1-10-10-10-10-10-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-12-0-0-0-0-0-0). Even for Ragnarok, level 82 is a bit high, but bear in mind that this is a solo archer that comes with a fully maxed Core Dweller. Dropping one of the one point wonders and lowering Corey's synergies easily gets you down to 75 or so.

Putting 81 attribute points in Dex., and the rest in Int. Breakdown below:

Quote
Strength
Base:            50
Rune:            32
Earth:            0
Quests:            42
-----------------------------
Base:            124
Total:            124
Required:         157

Dexterity
Base:            50
Rune:            48
Earth:            48
Quests:            18
-----------------------------
Base:            164
Added 81:         324
Total:            488
Required:         486

Intelligence
Base:            50
Rune:            64
Earth:            96
Quests:            18
-----------------------------
Base:            228
Level 75:         340
Total:            568
Required:         n.a.

Str. is a bit lower than I'd want, but the difference is so small, gear or Runeword: Feather can take care of it easily. In fact, taking Runeword: Feather and then dropping it once you're fully geared (and probably got at least some +Str. modifier somewhere), might be the way to go. The stats were chosen so that a Legendary Bramblewood can be equiped without any further gear requirements, though Ichaival is probably the best bow for this build.

Quote
(https://picoolio.net/images/2018/05/28/Bramblewood7d91e1b6e9ed045a.png) (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/bramblewood-bow-legendary)
Quote
(https://picoolio.net/images/2018/05/28/Ichaival216b178dd13650b1.png) (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/ichaival)
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: tholuneve on 31 May 2018, 05:42:37
If I'm reading correctly, you mean bow Stonespeaker, rather than thrown weapon or others.
Well...I never thought about that. I think it might work. But...your link is a Thunderer build...so I don't know what makes you level 82 to complete.

In fact, taking Runeword: Feather and then dropping it once you're fully geared (and probably got at least some +Str. modifier somewhere), might be the way to go.
About this I can safely say always max Runeword: Feather and don't invest str is the best choice.

And someone recently find out that Gusir's Gifts has hidden 100% chance to pierce. I haven't find it yet so I can't verify. But if it does, I think it would also be a good choice.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 31 May 2018, 10:20:15
Oops,.. I probably had too many tabs with Calcs open, and copied the wrong link. I modified and corrected the OP now.

The idea of a bow Stonespeaker came to me after it was mentioned by someone that Thunder Strike wroks on bows, by firing a full five arrows. I've tested it now, and all effects seem to carry over.

About this I can safely say always max Runeword: Feather and don't invest str is the best choice.

True -42% req. is massive, and for builds that do not need Str. for damage, it's a very solid investment for 6 skillpoints.

Archers though, barely need any Str. for weapon requirements. I think at higher levels neither investing in Str. nor Runeword: Feather will be necessary.

And someone recently find out that Gusir's Gifts has hidden 100% chance to pierce. I haven't find it yet so I can't verify. But if it does, I think it would also be a good choice.

That'd be very interesting, especially since this build does not come with any native chance to pierce, being a Rune based archer, rather than a Hunting based one. That also makes Gusir's "level 8 Volley" really usefull. In combination with Thunder Strike it'd be absolutely lethal. Even if Volley won't proc of it, having both passive as well as active multi-shot capabilities, is a huge asset. Considering how Thunder Strike behaves so far, I wouldn't be too surprised if it can proc Volley though. That'd give you an occassional 15 arrows per shot  :o
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Firebrand on 31 May 2018, 17:37:35
That'd be very interesting, especially since this build does not come with any native chance to pierce, being a Rune based archer, rather than a Hunting based one. That also makes Gusir's "level 8 Volley" really usefull. In combination with Thunder Strike it'd be absolutely lethal. Even if Volley won't proc of it, having both passive as well as active multi-shot capabilities, is a huge asset. Considering how Thunder Strike behaves so far, I wouldn't be too surprised if it can proc Volley though. That'd give you an occassional 15 arrows per shot  :o

Also keep in mind that according to tests made with Jagged Silk and Hoi Polloi, separate instances of Volley from different sources (your own skill tree and one or more items) stack. So any character with Hunting and maxed Volley and Gusir's Gifts is going to spread arrows like a madman.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 31 May 2018, 22:22:47
Also keep in mind that according to tests made with Jagged Silk and Hoi Polloi, separate instances of Volley from different sources (your own skill tree and one or more items) stack. So any character with Hunting and maxed Volley and Gusir's Gifts is going to spread arrows like a madman.

That's crazy.

I think Hunting has an issue though: it has always been a skillpoint-heavy mastery, especially for the archer route, and with Scatter Shot nerfed, the questions rises whether it's worth it. The Gusir's stacked arrow spreader could work, but I'd pick a secondary mastery only as a minor.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 16 June 2018, 13:02:00
So, I cleared Act V for the first time with my Stonespeaker (yeah, I took my time).

I am actually quite impressed with Ragnarok. The voice acting is indeed quite terrible, at least when compared with previous TQ installments, and the Ragnarok content overall feels different. However, some of that was clearly intentional, the plot was not bad and even caught me by suprise at one point, despite me being familiar with the mythology, and the art was pretty decent and varied. I especially liked how they brought back the colour and light of the original, that was somewhat missing in Immortal Throne.

Back on topic, my Stonespeaker had some survivability issues late Act V, which annoyingly, seemed to be entirely due to bugs. Especially on the Yggdrasil maps, or any maps with raised walkways, mobs seem to float above the level rather than walking upon it. This makes them impossible to hit with arrows. There's a visual hit, but the hits don't actually register, like they're on a different plane. For an archer, this means some areas, and some bosses are just a pain to deal with.

Then there's the point that I had hoped to rely quite a bit on Menhir Wall for survivability, but just can't get it to work: when placed in doorways (which is really where you want to place them), mobs seem to be able to glitch through them. At this point I'm really doubting whether I should invest any more points in it, or just give up on it and go for Seal of Fate instead. SoF might be less suited for my build, but at least it isn't bugged. @botebote77 I remember you mentioning using Menhir Wall effectively on one character, did you not encounter glitching mobs at all?

Finally, something essentially unrelated to the survivability issue: I am somewhat disappointed in Thunder Strike. Sure, it looks good with a bow, and five piercing arrows may seem great. the reality is though, that at range you'll never hit a mob with all five arrows, and when shooting at multiple mobs, you'll be lucky if two or three out of five hit their mark. The spread pattern is random too, so you might in fact not hit anything at all. At close range you will hit with all five arrows, but the base casting time is just too long. You'd be better off firing three or so arrows using Rune Weapon and Runeword: Explode, in the same amount of time, with a triple possibility to proc Runeword: Burn for more damage, and have Energy Drain guaranteed to proc as well. I wonder whether Thunder Strike will be worth it when maxed out, because of the sheer amount of +% total damage.

That said, with the effectiveness of Thunder Strike up for debate, the use of a bow for this build becomes more debatable as well, and I have been entertaining the idea of converting to throwing weapons, as previously suggested. The fact that I allready stumbled upon this piece of kit with another relatively low level character only adds to that:

(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2018/06/16/TouchofNyx.png) (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/touch-of-nyx)

The question rises what I should equip in my off-hand. A shield would be ideal, but even with Runeword: Feather, I'd have nowhere near enough Str. to equip one, so I'd be stuck with Santa's untill I find one of these:

(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2018/06/16/WandsworthShield.png) (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/wandsworth-shield)(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2018/06/16/ShieldofSkuld.png) (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/shield-of-skuld)

The Wandsworth in particular though, would be downright amazing.

Without those shields, I'd be more or less forced to go with dual-wielding, but Reckless Offense requires four more points that Runeword: Absorb, and would not be as beneficial to this build I think.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: botebote77 on 16 June 2018, 14:48:23
when i spec to ice shard with my thunderer, i use menhir wall.. but i prefer the lightning/EBD build.. haven't played it in a while but no never had that bug.. maybe you haven't invested enough points? it's no good at lvl 1

yggdrasil area, they have thorns.. you probably know that already.. those birds yeah you have to wait for them to come down before you can hit them.. spells like lightning bolt can hit them

thunder strike is good with dual throwing weapons.. i always go for CDR items so thunder strike cooldown has never been a problem for me

sadly, tq-db hasn't been updated.. shield of skuld has a str req of 400+.. i don't have wandsworth shield yet but it probably has a str req as well.. you might need to put a few points on str but i doubt more than 5 is needed

dang touch of nyx i don't have 1 of those yet

The voice acting is indeed quite terrible
soup?
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 16 June 2018, 15:19:18
Yeah, I figured it needs more points, because they get destroyed easily too, but the glitching mobs don't seem to have anything to do with that.

I know about the thorns, and flying mobs, but I'm not talking about arrows getting stuck in geography, or not hitting mobs. In fact, the birds are easy enough to hit. I'm talking about giants etc., and Loki for example, getting visually hit, but the hit not registering.

The voice acting is indeed quite terrible
soup?

???
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 16 June 2018, 15:58:57
Finally, something essentially unrelated to the survivability issue: I am somewhat disappointed in Thunder Strike. Sure, it looks good with a bow, and five piercing arrows may seem great. the reality is though, that at range you'll never hit a mob with all five arrows, and when shooting at multiple mobs, you'll be lucky if two or three out of five hit their mark. The spread pattern is random too, so you might in fact not hit anything at all. At close range you will hit with all five arrows, but the base casting time is just too long. You'd be better off firing three or so arrows using Rune Weapon and Runeword: Explode, in the same amount of time, with a triple possibility to proc Runeword: Burn for more damage, and have Energy Drain guaranteed to proc as well. I wonder whether Thunder Strike will be worth it when maxed out, because of the sheer amount of +% total damage.
I had a similar impression about thunder strike when playing dragon hunter (with throwing weapons) in epic, but it passed in legendary, or more specifically late legendary. Rune weapon explode seems enough for everything, just until you stumble on lvl 80+ mobs absurd hp with legendary resist on top. Then you have to use all your skills loadout, thunder strike too. Yes, it gets better with point investment, and yes its still much better at shotgunning than even average range.

Quote
Then there's the point that I had hoped to rely quite a bit on Menhir Wall for survivability, but just can't get it to work
It is much like briar ward in that it recieves more hp in epic and legendary while you will also get more cooldown reduction gear. It gets a lot of hp from point investment too so definetely invest in it if you can.

Quote
The question rises what I should equip in my off-hand. A shield would be ideal, but even with Runeword: Feather, I'd have nowhere near enough Str.
Many legendary items have stats on them, my dragon hunter has Hera's shield with + str/dex/int, just... don't unequip it  :)
Are you using or going to use stonebinders for all skills? Then you might be free to chose whatever necklace you want, and look at Crimson gem of Cytorus. For example.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 16 June 2018, 16:08:18
Quote
Then there's the point that I had hoped to rely quite a bit on Menhir Wall for survivability, but just can't get it to work
It is much like briar ward in that it recieves more hp in epic and legendary while you will also get more cooldown reduction gear. It gets a lot of hp from point investment too so definetely invest in it if you can.

But what about the mobs glitching through? Am I really the only one that has that issue?
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: botebote77 on 16 June 2018, 17:59:43
that's possible i have never experienced it and have never read in any forum that kind of bug.. still, i suggest you try it on higher levels first.. but do you really need it? core dweller dies fast? or you don't have it yet?

dual chakram of the sun i really think is the ideal way to go.. i use one on my skinchanger and the chance to petrify procs quite a lot.. and that's on legendary.. 2 chakram sun's with thunder strike could be good enough CC.. it has 15% CDR so that's 30% from weapons alone.. deals 146-156 fire damage on top of the base physical which will also get converted to elemental.. then finally +2 to earth.. use it with legendary SB cuffs enhanced with primal magma and you can probably max core dweller, thunder strike, rune weapon, magical charge, and more

edit: and ah yes.. if you have 2 equipped, you get +40% total damage.. that's a f^©€|π lot
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 16 June 2018, 19:14:53
But what about the mobs glitching through? Am I really the only one that has that issue?
And what is the problem there? If one or two glitches, you kill them first. They aren't glitching, they can actually pass through, like pets moving NPCs while you talk to them. They just attack it when its on their way, and some end up attacking from the other side.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 16 June 2018, 22:51:43
that's possible i have never experienced it and have never read in any forum that kind of bug.. still, i suggest you try it on higher levels first.. but do you really need it? core dweller dies fast? or you don't have it yet?

dual chakram of the sun i really think is the ideal way to go.. i use one on my skinchanger and the chance to petrify procs quite a lot.. and that's on legendary.. 2 chakram sun's with thunder strike could be good enough CC.. it has 15% CDR so that's 30% from weapons alone.. deals 146-156 fire damage on top of the base physical which will also get converted to elemental.. then finally +2 to earth.. use it with legendary SB cuffs enhanced with primal magma and you can probably max core dweller, thunder strike, rune weapon, magical charge, and more

edit: and ah yes.. if you have 2 equipped, you get +40% total damage.. that's a f^©€|π lot

No I haven't tried Corey yet, since I was still playing Normal. I just picked Menhirs, as it seemed sensible for an archer: put up a wall, fire safely from behind the wall. Guess not,..

There is indeed a good chance though, that I won't actually need them, in which case getting Seal of Fate instead, for a debuff, would be a good alternative all the more.

Dual-wielding two Chakram of the Sun sounds interesting, it's gonna end up like a Xena build then. I should do a montage once I've farmed them, and add the anoying sounds she used to make, at way too frequent intervals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvCSTjqa_lg

And what is the problem there? If one or two glitches, you kill them first. They aren't glitching, they can actually pass through, like pets moving NPCs while you talk to them. They just attack it when its on their way, and some end up attacking from the other side.

No, you are missing the point, they are in fact glitching. I'm not talking about mobs attacking the stones, moving around or inbetween. To my knowledge a 'wall' is intended as a seperation between one area and another. If a person or object dissappears from area A, and subsequently magically reappears in area B, then the wall is not working as intended, and the teleporting can be designated as a 'problem' in the function of the wall. I can kill them first, but I could have done so even without the wall, thus the wall no longer serves any purpose.

Think about it like this: if president Trump completes the wall, yet the next day two million illegal immigrants enter Manhattan, New York directly by Concorde, then yes, they are there, and yes Trump can still make deporting them a priority, but was the wall worth investing in? Probably not, and you would still wonder where some poor Mexicans got all the Concordes.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: botebote77 on 17 June 2018, 00:43:25
huhahahaha

wait wait Hector said the same thing about mobs phasing through the wall

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=236.msg5092#msg5092
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 17 June 2018, 09:47:22
huhahahaha

wait wait Hector said the same thing about mobs phasing through the wall

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=236.msg5092#msg5092

YES!

That's exactly what I mean. Tagging @Hector in this.

The skill's radius is miserable and the delay should absolutely go.. for these reasons, I still think the skill is simply the result of a bad game design (though the amount of debuff it applies is really really strong, I gotta admit that)..

The debuff is strong indeed, but it needs to be mentioned that it requires 22 skillpoints to max out both Menhir Wall, and Guardian Stones, while putting only 1 skillpoint in Seal of Fate, and 6 to max out Aftershock provides an arguably better debuff, be it a single triggered one, rather than a constant one.

Really, without a reliable 'wall' function Menhir Wall as a skill is dead to me  ???

I'm even more convinced now though, that this is a genuine bug, that theoretically should get fixed in a patch.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 17 June 2018, 11:42:36
I'm even more convinced now though, that this is a genuine bug, that theoretically should get fixed in a patch.
These hero/monster/NPC models not overlapping and pushing each other to the sides instead had been there since the start. I have nothing to do with programming but I'm afraid it might turn out not being fixable at all, its some basic model physics.

And really, one mob getting through while others 15 are blocked is not a serious issue.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 17 June 2018, 14:39:28
I'm even more convinced now though, that this is a genuine bug, that theoretically should get fixed in a patch.
These hero/monster/NPC models not overlapping and pushing each other to the sides instead had been there since the start. I have nothing to do with programming but I'm afraid it might turn out not being fixable at all, its some basic model physics.

And really, one mob getting through while others 15 are blocked is not a serious issue.

The pushing is not the issue. The problem is mobs moving through solid objects like walls, because they are pushed, or even by themselves.

You're right about one mob getting through not being a problem, while 15 others are blocked, given that those were, say 16 Satyrs. However, if you try to block 3 Jotun, and out of those 3, 1 or 2 get through, then it's a problem, or at least the whole attempt at blocking is pointless.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Hector on 17 June 2018, 19:06:07
Quote
The debuff is strong indeed, but it needs to be mentioned that it requires 22 skillpoints to max out both Menhir Wall, and Guardian Stones, while putting only 1 skillpoint in Seal of Fate, and 6 to max out Aftershock provides an arguably better debuff, be it a single triggered one, rather than a constant one.

I'm sorry I am not quite following this part.. I wasn't talking about the debuff Menhir wall provides (If we can consider a tiny stun retaliation as a debuff that is).. I was only talking about aftershock and its debuff being a strong one..

Anyway, I'm glad that you spotted the bug about the wall as well.. probably much earlier than I did.. could it be the case that casting it too close to mobs force the mechanics of the game to decide which one should occupy that specific point of the map in that instance, the enemy, or the wall itself?.. if that spot is too little for both the monster and the wall to stand at the same time, maybe the game simply remove that monster from the spot in order to successfully deploy the wall there and randomly put the monster anywhere around it (unfortunately the player's side most of the time).. if something like this is the case, then they have to fix it by simply making the wall thinner, thus occupying less space/pixels on the map, I guess.. ::)
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 17 June 2018, 21:58:03
could it be the case that casting it too close to mobs force the mechanics of the game to decide which one should occupy that specific point of the map in that instance, the enemy, or the wall itself?.. if that spot is too little for both the monster and the wall to stand at the same time, maybe the game simply remove that monster from the spot in order to successfully deploy the wall there and randomly put the monster anywhere around it (unfortunately the player's side most of the time)..

Ah, I didn't read the previous posts from that after thread, hence I assumed you were commenting on Menhir Wall, and missed the fact that you were allready referring to Aftershock.

Regarding the above, that could indeed very well be the case. The issue does seem to occur frequently when the Wall is summoned in close proximity to a mob. However, in my experience, doorways are still the main trigger for this glitch. It seems almost like the game forcibly tries to channel mobs through a doorway, causeway or obstacle, in a way that it would not handle normal pathfinding, and then yes, the Wall is there and occupies the same space. With normal pathfinding, the mob would be halted, as the Wall was there first, but it seems like with doorways and causeways, the forced channeling overrules the normal priority. This would also explain why the mob is redeployed on the player's side: the mob is advancing towards the player, it gets forcibly channeled through a doorway and ends up occupying the same space as a Wall, then, because the mob was given false priority in the first place it is placed ahead of the wall towards the direction it (the mob) was advancing in (the player's).
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 17 June 2018, 22:56:24
I think it happens when mobs are trying to surround a single pillar. Some might slip through to appear from behind, others pushed out because there is another pillar where they wanted to stand.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 18 June 2018, 15:01:30
@botebote77

You know, apart from equiping two Chakram of the Sun, one could also go for one Chakram of the Sun, and a Hati:

(https://picoolio.net/images/2018/05/28/Hati46e3fd2089ed53d9.png) (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/hati)

I imagine the damage would be somewhat less consistent, but with more crazy damage spikes.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: botebote77 on 19 June 2018, 04:16:58
i have like 4 chakram of the sun and no hati.. might be just RNG though.. also no chakram of the moon despite tq-db saying they have about the same chance of dropping (at least from heroes and bosses).. most thrown weapons i got were dropped by regular mobs

edit: i just looked at Hati drop chance and it says "no bosses seem to drop this item".. that explains it.. maybe there's a chance it's given as a quest reward.. but the chance of getting it must be slim

or tq-db isn't updated and Hati now drops in the latest versions
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: koderkrazy on 19 June 2018, 23:14:07
edit: i just looked at Hati drop chance and it says "no bosses seem to drop this item".. that explains it.. maybe there's a chance it's given as a quest reward.. but the chance of getting it must be slim

or tq-db isn't updated and Hati now drops in the latest versions
Actually Hati doesn't drop at all!!  :o
It's not there in any loot tables. There are 15 loot tables for ranged weapons in Ragnarok, and Hati is in non of them.
To be sure, I searched entire 1.54 and 1.56 database.arz(57,151 files)

Here is the only way you could get it :P
(https://preview.ibb.co/m30kNy/Hati.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gfa8aJ/Hati.jpg)
@Hector  one more use of Blacksmith tool  :))
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 19 June 2018, 23:56:45
Actually Hati doesn't drop at all!!  :o
It's not there in any loot tables. There are 15 loot tables for ranged weapons in Ragnarok, and Hati is in non of them.
To be sure, I searched entire 1.54 and 1.56 database.arz(57,151 files)

Here is the only way you could get it :P
(https://preview.ibb.co/m30kNy/Hati.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gfa8aJ/Hati.jpg)
@Hector  one more use of Blacksmith tool  :))

All right, that's downright bizarre,..
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: WNG on 20 June 2018, 01:00:10
Actually Hati doesn't drop at all!!  :o
It's not there in any loot tables. There are 15 loot tables for ranged weapons in Ragnarok, and Hati is in non of them.
To be sure, I searched entire 1.54 and 1.56 database.arz(57,151 files)

Here is the only way you could get it :P
(https://preview.ibb.co/m30kNy/Hati.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gfa8aJ/Hati.jpg)
@Hector  one more use of Blacksmith tool  :))

All right, that's downright bizarre,..

Not really, when you consider all the anomalies from Ragnarok.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Hector on 20 June 2018, 03:42:00
edit: i just looked at Hati drop chance and it says "no bosses seem to drop this item".. that explains it.. maybe there's a chance it's given as a quest reward.. but the chance of getting it must be slim

or tq-db isn't updated and Hati now drops in the latest versions
Actually Hati doesn't drop at all!!  :o
It's not there in any loot tables. There are 15 loot tables for ranged weapons in Ragnarok, and Hati is in non of them.
To be sure, I searched entire 1.54 and 1.56 database.arz(57,151 files)

Here is the only way you could get it :P
(https://preview.ibb.co/m30kNy/Hati.jpg)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gfa8aJ/Hati.jpg)
@Hector  one more use of Blacksmith tool  :))

Hell yeah  O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 03 July 2018, 22:26:21
This is ridiculous,..

I just found three of these during a single quick progress-driven non-farming run of Epic Valley of the Kings, and I allready found an identical one a few days ago:

(https://s33.postimg.cc/h5yhkicrz/Neeith_s_Will.png)

Sometimes I really hate how this game shafts you by letting you find the same Epic or Legendary item that you don't need on any character over and over again, while some items or that last piece of a set never drop.

RNG, my arse! There's no way how the same item can come up like that three times in a row, through complete randomness. There simply is something wrong with the seed system used.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: sauruz on 03 July 2018, 23:12:38
the drop rate of throwing weapons are way to hight than the other type of weapons, because you know *rune mastery*
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: botebote77 on 04 July 2018, 01:53:50
the devs are just trying to convince us to try throwing weapons

and of course it's possible, it's neiths will.. don't worry, the next time it will be 3 Ladon's maw
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: WNG on 04 July 2018, 02:55:15
the devs are just trying to convince us to try throwing weapons

and of course it's possible, it's neiths will.. don't worry, the next time it will be 3 Ladon's maw

My guess is that Laionidas has been unlucky and frequently found throwing weapons. When that happens, the game randomly picks one out of an array, and because the pool of throwing weapons is small, you will tend to find the same ones over and over.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: botebote77 on 04 July 2018, 03:25:03
it's just different with neiths will and ladons maw

this is rather quite funny: https://steamcommunity.com/app/475150/discussions/0/1488866813779164861/

i have like 10 neiths will now all found by just going through the game
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 09 July 2018, 13:22:50
Feeling really stupid again: I was dying a lot in Act III Epic, because I was careless/impatient, but also against Dragonians, even though my main attack damage at max charge Rune Weapon is about 2200~2300. Increasing damage and defensive buffs seemed to do little. It's only then that I noticed that the Dragonian Warlocks' aura looks a lot like my own Heat Shield. Usually the Warlocks died quickly, but so did I. Yup, I'd been increasing my fire elemental damage, and prioritising Warlocks as a target, whenever I was losing health,.. only to have it reflected right back in my face.

Now that I just let Corey piss about and wait untill the Warlocks' Heat Shield expires, I'm not dying anymore, and actually steamrolling through the later stages of vanilla.

That said, the careless/impatient deaths still happen sometimes. The main reason for this is that even on agressive stance, Corey is slow, not as in his physical speed, but he's mentally slow. He keeps dragging behind me, and I have to manually send him forward every so many meters. It would be nice if there were some kind of setting to have your pets walk in front of you, instead of behind, though Wolves allready seem to do that on their own account.

Finally, I just got another double-drop:

(https://s33.postimg.cc/oq1q4oamn/Lawless.png)

Not too happy about it for now, but it might end up working in my favour, if I want to find two Chakram of the Sun. For now I might in facte use the Chakram of the Lawless to level. My unbuffed damage is going down by about 200, but that's with one. I've kept enough skillpoints in reserve to max out Reckless Offense straight away. I'm assuming that with both of them equiped, my damage will be significantly more than with Zhu Rong's bow.

If the speed buffs, and experience increases stack, it's almost too good to be true. Stacked they would also give +4 to all skills in Warfare mastery. That'd be amazing on a dual-throw Beserker build.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: botebote77 on 09 July 2018, 14:18:47
i actually think it's better for a slayer.. marksmanship over onslaught.. less damage but it pierces.. and you won't benefit from runeword:explode and burn much anyway because the weapon forces you to a str + dex build.. scatter shot might be better for a str + dex build.. no sacred rage but you'll have enough damage from battle standard, study prey, art of the hunt, and call of the hunt.. no menhir wall but you'll have monster lure.. might go well with tracker's hood.. then either SBC or sentinel's armbands

unless if you want to build it int + dex berserker but then that high percent physical damage would be wasted

and the DA stacking: 128 + 125 + ultimate max wood lore
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 11 July 2018, 11:06:45
Blazing through Act IV again. Still some occassional silly deaths, because I'm horribly undergeared armour-wise. I've got a lot of Legendary armours, Monster Infrequents, and Greens stashed, but they're all strength based so I can't wear them. Oh well, I am rather over-geared on the offensive and jewelry sides, so I'll just have to make do untill I get across some better armour. I really don't feel like farming in Epic for now.

On a different note, I am considering buying back ALL the points I invested in Ring of Flame and Soften Metal. It looks decent enough, also in a literal sense: the visuals are nice, and it's a great mob killer in Normal. However, I find that its offensive capabilities scale poorly, and on a ranged character, enemies are not getting close enough, or at least they shouldn't. When they ssometimes do, you want a defensive buff or enemy offensive debuff more than an offensive effect, but the only thing you're getting in that area is 15% reduced enemy offensive ability for 3 seconds,.. that's hardly worth 20 skillpoints. Then you also get an enemy defensive debuff in the form of -110 armour for 3 seconds, but that's it. The rest is 33 flat damage and 57 flat fire damage per second, which'd be good if you were facetanking, as it is per second, and in combination with other aura's or trances, but simply isn't on a ranged intelligence based or hybrid character. Aside from the skillpoints, it consumes a lot of energy too, which is not so much a problem on a build that doesn't consume much otherwise, but still dangerous when facing energy leeching bosses. It's just annoying too, having to watch that energy gauge, lest your enchantments deactivate, because you were just a tad too late rinking that potion. I might even be better of dumping those points in Unleash, even though it's electrical burn damage.

i actually think it's better for a slayer.. marksmanship over onslaught.. less damage but it pierces.. and you won't benefit from runeword:explode and burn much anyway because the weapon forces you to a str + dex build.. scatter shot might be better for a str + dex build.. no sacred rage but you'll have enough damage from battle standard, study prey, art of the hunt, and call of the hunt.. no menhir wall but you'll have monster lure.. might go well with tracker's hood.. then either SBC or sentinel's armbands

unless if you want to build it int + dex berserker but then that high percent physical damage would be wasted

and the DA stacking: 128 + 125 + ultimate max wood lore

Good point.

For now I'm sticking with my Stonespeaker though  ;)
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: RegalStar on 11 July 2018, 17:10:35
I'm running a stonespeaker as well, so I'd like to throw in some opinion on the skills:

-Aftershock is pretty important because it's the only -res skill that you have. Having it can dramatically increase killing speed of bosses.
-Eruption is a good spell to have too. You can toss it in the middle of some archer mobs to kill them while you dodge or focus on something else, and using it against bosses increase killing speed too. Don't use it on golden boar or mobs with reflection though.
-Wildfire and Inner Fire aren't that useful. The main function of Corey is to tank, not do damage. There's HP Regenertion and -OA but even without them Corey can tank long enough that you can just resummon if its HP gets low.
-Energy Drain doesn't really need more than 1 point. -OA and slow are nice but they aren't that vital, and this build doesn't use a lot of MP.
-I've never actually used Menhir/Guardian Stone so I can't comment on how good or bad they are, but it didn't seem to me like I'd need another distraction when Corey does its job already.

I'd say that These[url] are the core skills of the build, and level 68 should be fairly reasonable. (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc53b553b5rune491c.html?mastery=Stonespeaker&master1=1&master2=10&sa=30&m1=32-12-0-8-1-12-0-1-16-0-0-8-8-0-0-12-0-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-10-6-1-16-1-10-0-1-10-10-10-10-10-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-12-0-0-0-0-0-0)
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 22 July 2018, 20:26:40
I'm still very weak to the poison burst damage by Kalygoths and Zombie Blightcasters. This makes Epic Tower of Judgement uplayable, since it's very difficult to avoid those attacks in those confined spaces. I'll have to gear up specifically against poison after all.  I'm wondering though, my poison resist is not thát low, (lack of) armour should not really matter, and I never had these poison issue in Epic before. Has poison DoT been buffed in the recent patch?

I'm running a stonespeaker as well, so I'd like to throw in some opinion on the skills:

-Aftershock is pretty important because it's the only -res skill that you have. Having it can dramatically increase killing speed of bosses.
-Eruption is a good spell to have too. You can toss it in the middle of some archer mobs to kill them while you dodge or focus on something else, and using it against bosses increase killing speed too. Don't use it on golden boar or mobs with reflection though.
-Wildfire and Inner Fire aren't that useful. The main function of Corey is to tank, not do damage. There's HP Regenertion and -OA but even without them Corey can tank long enough that you can just resummon if its HP gets low.
-Energy Drain doesn't really need more than 1 point. -OA and slow are nice but they aren't that vital, and this build doesn't use a lot of MP.
-I've never actually used Menhir/Guardian Stone so I can't comment on how good or bad they are, but it didn't seem to me like I'd need another distraction when Corey does its job already.

I'd say that These[url] are the core skills of the build, and level 68 should be fairly reasonable.
 (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc53b553b5rune491c.html?mastery=Stonespeaker&master1=1&master2=10&sa=30&m1=32-12-0-8-1-12-0-1-16-0-0-8-8-0-0-12-0-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-10-6-1-16-1-10-0-1-10-10-10-10-10-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-12-0-0-0-0-0-0)

- I had Energy Drain maxed, because I was running maxed Ring of Flame. However, I'm also considering dropping that in favour of Eruption. What do you think about the Health Leech on Energy Drain though?
- Guardian Stones suck, but Menhir Wall as a seperate skill seems to be worth the 10 points, especially in dungeons where you can't kite as effectively, but can very easily block passageways. The problem is that it's bugged though, and unreliable as a result.
- I find Inner Fire usefull mainly because of the speed buff. Corey is allready slow as he is.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: RegalStar on 23 July 2018, 04:31:14
I don't remember having particular troubles with the poison spewers. They do a lot of damage if you get caught in them, but if need be you can just send Corey ahead and let them spew poison first, then run in and hit them. In the Tower of Judgement at least you can also toss Eruption over walls a lot of the time.

Energy Drain's AdtH doesn't scale with levels so 1 point is enough. And yeah I wouldn't recommend Ring of Flame for a non-melee build. As for Guardian Stones, since my own Stonespeaker is pretty high leveled I found some free points to max it out; I use it on my fafnir runs but they don't seem to increase my killing speed noticably. Menhir I just flat out never used beyond normal act I since using F2 to send in Corey where you need it to be generally works well enough, so I guess I can't really say much about it.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Firebrand on 23 July 2018, 19:11:13
Against Kalygoths and Blightcasters, I'd recommend a single point in Stone Form (probably one in Molten Rock, too). If you notice that you got hit, just activate it immediately, it prevents all the poison damage from then on, even if you got hit beforehand. It lasts long enough that you survive, and then you can retaliate after Stone Form ends!
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Laionidas on 24 July 2018, 11:25:18
Against Kalygoths and Blightcasters, I'd recommend a single point in Stone Form (probably one in Molten Rock, too). If you notice that you got hit, just activate it immediately, it prevents all the poison damage from then on, even if you got hit beforehand. It lasts long enough that you survive, and then you can retaliate after Stone Form ends!

Oh wow, I didn't think it would. I assumed I would keep taking poison damage in Stone Form. That alone makes the skill worth it.
Title: Re: [AE 1.56 theory] Scatter Shot Alternative Stonespeaker Build
Post by: Vio on 24 July 2018, 23:39:20
Even if you did chances are that the regeneration counters it.
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal