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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 13:20:17

Title: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 13:20:17
I see this skill has been changed a bit, it now also reduces enemy's defensive ability... should i max it as a bone charmer, even though i am not doing any elemental damage?
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 10 April 2018, 15:02:46
you will notice you will crit more so yes (assuming you attack melee too)
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 15:05:33
my main att is with a bow, i only switch to spear for 1 vs. 1 situations with certain enemies like heroes or bosses.

thanks, botebote!
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 10 April 2018, 15:24:44
but i really don't get it.. sorry if this turns out like a little rant.. why do people think spirit is good for archers? if it's just for the liche king as tank, monster lure is better and it only costs 6pts.. core dweller is better now i think.. core dweller is tankier now than it was in IT and it has provoke.. and if it dies it's ok you can just resummon it.. is it because of irma2's guide? but it was only because liche king was the better tank than core dweller back then.. and necrosis was good when paired with take down.. but in AE, it's useless now if not for the charge.. is it because of unearthly power? I'd much rather take nature's strength of the pack.. is it because of death chill aura? dream would give better survivability.. so yeah I'm really blank.. i don't see why people think spirit is good for archers.. sorry I'm a bit tired right now and I'm sleepy.. time for me to sleep

edit: if it's throwing weapons, i understand.. but console still has no throwing weapons if I'm not mistaken.. and people have liked spirit as archers even before ragnarok
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 15:27:35
well i wanted to play something new, and Irma's guide seemed interesting, but i didn't know there would be a difference because of AE :S last time I played was before AE...
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 10 April 2018, 15:30:48
nah I'm just tired.. but i still don't get it :)

have to log out and time to Zzzzz
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 15:34:26
like i said, the class seemed interesting and OP, but i didn't realise there was such a difference between before and after AE, because the last time i played TQ was when IT came out, so there you go, what's not to get? :D

go get some sleep, yes :D
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Laionidas on 10 April 2018, 18:50:54
Like @botebote77 said, I too can literally not think of any skill I'd want from Spirit, that does something that another mastery can't do better.

is it because of death chill aura? dream would give better survivability..

That aside, Death Chill Aura is strictly for melee characters, or point-blank-range casters, in my opinion. If someone consistently lets them get that close, as a range character, you must be doing something wrong.

Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 20:08:19
Well i am sorry for being a noob, i was just following a guide...
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: sauruz on 10 April 2018, 21:31:11
Well i am sorry for being a noob, i was just following a guide...

You dont need to say sorry, its your game, you do what you want to try out.
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Laionidas on 10 April 2018, 21:49:18
Well i am sorry for being a noob, i was just following a guide...

Eh,.. sorry, my writing style can come across as a bit harsh maybe.

I was critiquing the build, not you. New ideas and new players are a good thing. Also, not many 'Letzies' here,.. I thought you were Dutch there for a second, untill I noticed the slightly different shades of blue.

Anyway, like I said though, Spirit is an amazing mastery, just not for an archer. I'm guessing Irma liked to facetank enemies Legolas style. That's Irma though, a very experienced and experimental player, and it was probably in the pre-AE game, when archers were really overpowered. Now, it may seem the build is doing OK, mainly because any character with Spirit can just call in the Liche and Outsider all the way through Epic, to deal with difficult stuff. In Legendary it will simply be suboptimal to other archer and other Spirit builds, even other non-bow Bonecasters.
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 22:04:42
Well i am sorry for being a noob, i was just following a guide...

Eh,.. sorry, my writing style can come across as a bit harsh maybe.

I was critiquing the build, not you. New ideas and new players are a good thing. Also, not many 'Letzies' here,.. I thought you were Dutch there for a second, untill I noticed the slightly different shades of blue.

Anyway, like I said though, Spirit is an amazing mastery, just not for an archer. I'm guessing Irma liked to facetank enemies Legolas style. That's Irma though, a very experienced and experimental player, and it was probably in the pre-AE game, when archers were really overpowered. Now, it may seem the build is doing OK, mainly because any character with Spirit can just call in the Liche and Outsider all the way through Epic, to deal with difficult stuff. In Legendary it will simply be suboptimal to other archer and other Spirit builds, even other non-bow Bonecasters.

No harm done, mate!

Actually, i am slovenian but i am living and working in luxembourg :))

Regarding the build, i you are probably right that the build was good pre-ae, too bad i didnt realise that before choosing my second mastery :/ i guess i will try and persevere and still finish the game..i am in epic egypt at the moment!
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Laionidas on 10 April 2018, 23:14:48
No harm done, mate!

Actually, i am slovenian but i am living and working in luxembourg :))

Regarding the build, i you are probably right that the build was good pre-ae, too bad i didnt realise that before choosing my second mastery :/ i guess i will try and persevere and still finish the game..i am in epic egypt at the moment!

Yeah, don't worry. You can always use TQDefiler to change class later, or if you don't want to do that, use the ingame skillpoint-buyback-merchant (jeez, in Dutch you'd actually have to write that as a single word: 'vaardighedenpuntenterugkoophandelaar'), to convert to a caster or spear melee user, depending on your statpoints (that can not be altered ingame). You could then recreate a bow build using Ragnarok's 'accomplished character' feature, if so desired.
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 23:17:48
Unfortunately, i play on console, so no defiler for me :/ i do switch to a spear a lot though but the main reason for that is that my spear is muuuch better than my bow.hope i find some better loot soon!
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 10 April 2018, 23:35:25
ok here i go again but don't worry i won't throw a tantrum this time.. first off, i think throwing weapon is good option for bonecharmers.. it's like a short range archer wearing a shield.. you still have marksmanship, some enemies will still be in the range of deathchill aura and you can steal lots of HP because of necrosis.. and you're wearing a shield so you won't be a glass canon

But ragnarok is not yet on consoles and as I've said above people have been liking spirit for archers even before ragnarok so it's not just you Bobinho.. me i see spirit as being good for:

1) petmasters
2) ternion builds (obviously)
3) melee (death chill aura tree including necrosis)

but i just don't see anything spirit gives for archers.. maybe they see something i don't, or maybe they are all thinking like you :)

i see 2 main reasons why irma2 liked spirit

1) liche was the only tanky permanent pet back then
2) take down with necrosis was a boss killer

but there comes the problem.. this is AE now.. core dweller has emerged as another tanky pet.. even monster lure because iirc monster lure health doesn't scale with difficulty back then.. it now does and it's a much better tank than liche king

and the take down with necrosis thing.. in IT, it hits like a truck.. in AE, it hits like a pillow
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 10 April 2018, 23:46:59
Well thats really a shame but its too late now i guess :/ i will see how far i come with this toon. Havent tried the liche king or the outsider or monster lure yet.
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Laionidas on 11 April 2018, 10:04:54
and the take down with necrosis thing.. in IT, it hits like a truck.. in AE, it hits like a pillow

To be honest, I don't think the Take Down argument was valid to begin with, because it only works with spear, not with bow, right?
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 11 April 2018, 10:15:23
you are correct of course, only works with a spear.

i am using the spear more and more anyway, because my bow really sucks compared to it :)
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 11 April 2018, 12:13:10
the way i saw it was kill mobs with scatter shot and kill bosses with take down.. iirc, irma2 provided a video of take down killing hydra in like 5 seconds
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Laionidas on 11 April 2018, 12:16:24
you are correct of course, only works with a spear.

i am using the spear more and more anyway, because my bow really sucks compared to it :)

If you're switching to spear full-time, evidently you should drop the whole Bow Mastery line, as those points would just be wasted.

Personally, this would be my ideal physical spear melee Bonecharmer (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc239e239e239e.html?mastery=Bone Charmer&master1=2&master2=7&sa=21&m1=32-6-0-0-8-1-1-0-6-16-1-0-8-0-12-8-12-1-1-1-16-0&m2=32-0-1-6-0-12-6-0-8-1-6-8-0-0-8-10-1-12-6-0-6-0) build. Level 78 might seem like a bit of a long shot to aim for, but it should be pretty doable once Ragnarok comes out for consoles, as you'll level more and'll get more free points (so level 78 actually become level 75, while the level cap runs all the way to 85). Besides, untill then, you can just ignore most of the Liche King's synergies.

Most notable is that you do not put any points in Gouge, not even one. If you have a point in Gouge allready, take it out. The reason for this is that at higher levels your normal attack will apparently animate so much faster than Gouge, that it offsets any damage bonus Gouge might give you (which isn't a lot to begin with, considering it's bleeding only).
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 11 April 2018, 12:54:39
actually i have a spear and shield bone charmer.. secondary was bow.. you might have read it already and you might've seen my vid already but anyway.. the idea was 65% recharge enables me to have call of the hunt and dark covenant/unearthly power permanent.. build was something like this:

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc239e239e239e.html?mastery=BoneCharmer&master1=2&master2=7&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-0-8-0-1-0-6-16-1-0-8-1-1-8-1-0-1-16-16-0&m2=32-0-0-6-0-12-6-0-8-0-6-8-0-1-8-10-1-1-6-0-6-0

yes i took gouge because somehow i like the animation.. the bleeding damage i don't really care i took it more because i like the animation.. monster lure is just really good especially against archers.. you just got to trust me on this.. herbal remedy helps a little with the HP regen penalty from dark covenant.. flush out boosts arcane blast.. i can summon outsider more frequently because of recharge.. like the last boss before Hades, the one that drops the soul stone, i summon outsider, kill boss.. then when i get to Hades, i can summon outsider again.. stats were str/dex.. it was self-found.. i only got 65% recharge late in the game but it's still quite good.. i got pelaron pretty early

and no, the liche don't die
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 11 April 2018, 12:58:31
both are nice builds, thanks guys.

So i should max out monster lure, ok. I remember before AE i put 1 point into monster lure, and cast it against the hydra, and it couldn't kill it.

about LK sinergies: how come arcane blast and not death nova and wraith shell?
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 11 April 2018, 13:03:20
because flush out boosts arcane blast and it's different in AE, the liche spams it.. i felt arcane blast was better for my build.. lvl 1wraith shell only because the liche don't die.. i use SB cuffs btw
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 11 April 2018, 13:08:26
cool, ty.

when do you suggest i start using the LK? i tried him last night on giza plateu and it couldn't even use its powers because i killed everything too quickly :D
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Laionidas on 11 April 2018, 13:08:38
because flush out boosts arcane blast and it's different in AE, the liche spams it.. i felt arcane blast was better for my build.. lvl 1wraith shell only because the liche don't die.. i use SB cuffs btw

Yup. I  suggested maxing Death Nova and Wraithshell too, because with Ragnarok, you should have the points available. I guess @botebote77 maxed Outsider instead, which is a good choice, but I personally don't like investing 15 extra points in a temporary pet on long cooldown. That's a really subjective choice though. Anyway Death Nova and Wraithshell are a mere afterthought, even in the build I suggested.

cool, ty.

when do you suggest i start using the LK? i tried him last night on giza plateu and it couldn't even use its powers because i killed everything too quickly :D

Whenever you feel you do need it. I'd recommend staying away from pets before Epic, but you're allready in Epic, so really, whenever.
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: botebote77 on 11 April 2018, 13:10:54
Laionidas, i have 65% CDR so outsider is not long cooldown for me

Bobinho, see my vid and see how often the liche casts arcane blast more than death nova

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=213.msg3856#new

but i can only speak for bone charmer because it has flush out
Title: Re: flush out
Post by: Bobinho11 on 11 April 2018, 13:17:01
i see, yeah..

pretty cool :) i guess i have some respeccing to do :D
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