Titanquest Fan Forum

Titan Quest - Anniversary Edition/Ragnarök => Anniversary Edition - General discussion => Topic started by: Deepblue on 11 April 2018, 19:32:37

Title: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 11 April 2018, 19:32:37
Played the original version a lot, even played it a lot when it come out on Steam.

Now this.
Seems the difficulty got a huge buff this time around because daaamn...

Tried a Conqueror and currently trying an Oracle, both get stuck at the beginning of Act IV
Starts out slow, gets easier and then the difficulty stops being a curve and turns into a wall when I hit Typhon.
I barely make it and then Act IV just destroys me. This is on normal by the way, not Epic or the next one over.

My only journey into epic difficulty in the original game was as a brigand and I simply dodged everything and shot every target full of arrows.
Same with Hades and Typhon. Let off an arrow, dodge projectile, let off an arrow, etc.
Doubt that would work now and it probably wasn't the best strat anyway.

I've played this game a hell of a lot but I wouldn't say I'm amazing or anything (far from it)

Anniverary Edition kicking my ass, unsure if I'll ever play the new dlc.
I'd rather not start a new character and jump straight to it either.

I do enjoy all the new stuff to the base game though like the hero monsters that are always in certain locations.
Just wish normal didn't feel like epic.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 11 April 2018, 21:32:33
maybe you just have to farm for some good gear.. farm for good weapon and shields.. try the merchants
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Tauceti on 12 April 2018, 00:38:01
In addition to shop runs for green items, it's wise to know before engaging a boss what kind of gear you should wear, i mean the resistances you have to search for.

This link is helpful for boss damage types:
       https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-bosses-and-damage-types-guide-by-poinas/ (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-bosses-and-damage-types-guide-by-poinas/)
Some regular mobs can also be deadly when not prepared, ex elder centaurs if you don't have stun resists, this link give you some tips:
       https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-monster-types-that-cause-problems-faq-by-matseb2611/ (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-monster-types-that-cause-problems-faq-by-matseb2611/)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 12 April 2018, 01:05:30
hey i like that 2nd link.. it's a shame i haven't read that before.. maybe we can open a similar discussion here in this forum and also including act 5
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Typhon on 12 April 2018, 04:30:21
Welcome to the Tqfans forums!
Not steam forums :/ got used to greeting people on steam as well
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 12 April 2018, 08:09:53
In addition to shop runs for green items, it's wise to know before engaging a boss what kind of gear you should wear, i mean the resistances you have to search for.

The only one I know of that always one-shots me that I can't dodge no matter what is Hades with all that vitality damage.
Seriously, trying to outrun the aoe that is faster than you and suddenly try to dodge many projectiles which leads you into the aoe when you do and there's never a break when he doesn't do it so you can attack...... Typhon is just as relentless, don't think he uses melee anymore, just keeps using his abilities over and over with no breathing room.

Right now doing an Oracle and I do search for jewellry with pet bonuses but I try to find ones with other effects too rather than just basic ones.

Edit: Ok early Act IV is kicking my ass completely. I haven't died yet but my pets have. Many, many times.....
I have to resort to letting myself get mobbed and lose tons of health so I can ternion everything to death.

At this rate, I may as well have wasted my money on Ragnarok because I'm never getting to it.

Starting to think there's not a single gameplay style that works for me.

I'm probably the only player who can't get past normal difficulty.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 12 April 2018, 21:07:10
Decided to just go back to making a Conqueror from the beginning, a mage type is just too weak for normal Act IV
Why the devs felt they needed to buff enemies into oblivion I'll never know, this isn't supposed to be Epic or Legendary.

At least with a Conqueror I can use my safe(ish) tactic I like to call "Divide and Conqueror". In other words, carefully aggro one or two enemies from a group, drag them away and kill them. Rince and repeat.
Will probably still get wrecked in Act IV (normal)

With my last Conqueror, basic enemies went down fast though bosses were slow. Just barely killed Typhon though even with fully maxed colossus form, battle standard and 75% vitality resist (I used so many health potions on that fight just to stay alive)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Tauceti on 12 April 2018, 21:31:47
Try to find a green ligthning (or cold) staff of the devouring in shops, this will give you X% attack damage converted to health and with ternion it should greatly improves your survivability (and you can also socket the staff with anubis relic rather than zeus for example). Morover, don't search for pet items, it's useless for an oracle. Plato rings (%int, %energy) are much more needed in your case.You may have energy regen problems but hecate socketed in your rings should resolve your mana problem (i guess that you don't have skill points to spare in dark covenant yet). Finally, if you can't outrun hades orbs, then try to find boots with %movement speed and socket the boots with hermes relic. Mobility for casters is a mandatory key for survivability.

At late act 4, your level should be around 40, here is an example of oracle build based on ternion, which can handle the entire act.
https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc6eba6eba6eba.html?mastery=Oracle&master1=2&master2=8&sa=4&m1=32-1-0-12-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-6-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0&m2=32-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-12-0-0-0-6-8-0-0-1-1-0-8-0-0 (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc6eba6eba6eba.html?mastery=Oracle&master1=2&master2=8&sa=4&m1=32-1-0-12-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-6-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0&m2=32-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-12-0-0-0-6-8-0-0-1-1-0-8-0-0)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 12 April 2018, 21:35:07
Think I'm only at level 32 or something.
Tried the build you mentioned as well as the gear suggestions. I'm faring no better, enemies take ages to take down, wisp pet dies every 5 seconds and I'm still chugging energy and health potions every 5 seconds. Maxed Squall barely does anything and there are far too many projectiles to dodge to make it useful.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 12 April 2018, 22:18:00
actually casters are pretty strong in normal.. squall and shards alone can finish act 4 with the help of nothing but pots.. but it's obvious you're still feeling your way in AE because you have problems with both tank and casters.. but it's ok, once you get the hang of it you're good.. me i always play casters self-found or not.. but my casters are different, i always wear shields and i rely on spells.. that is true caster for me.. this might seem weird but i prefer casters because i hate dying.. i value survivability that's why i prefer casters.. my custom name should say it all :)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Tauceti on 12 April 2018, 23:03:33
If "enemies take ages to take down" with ternion it means that you really have a poor staff or you struggle with energy so that you can't spam ternion.

Lvl 32 is somewhat early to begin with act 4 if you play self-found. Take your time and make some farming or shop runs. Sooner or later you will find medium gear and then good gear. Be patient, learn from monster damage types and Titan quest will reward you with great moments  ;)

Also try different builds, another gameplay can suit you more. The icesharder suggestion from @botebote77 is a nice idea: you will have a shield, this should improve your survivability.

Regarding Hades, keep in mind that its damages are roughly 50% vitality, 50% physical so find a hallowed helm from stores, socket a ring with demon's blood and you are ready to fight Hades, provided that you have good shoes to outrun orbs.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 13 April 2018, 01:55:43
@Tauceti why no spell breaker? even 1pt each is a life saver

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=263.msg2379#msg2379
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 13 April 2018, 09:21:09
I think epic had always been simpler than normal because you had functional build by that time, while monsters weren't really dangerous yet.

The only one I know of that always one-shots me that I can't dodge no matter what is Hades with all that vitality damage.
Sounds like you need demon's blood on jewellery, or even two of them normal ones, to cap vit resist. Hades has one oneshot move well telegraphed, and then the rest of his attacks aren't dangerous given you have appropriate resist and health pool.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Laionidas on 13 April 2018, 10:20:56
My only journey into epic difficulty in the original game was as a brigand and I simply dodged everything and shot every target full of arrows.

AE is a bit different, but mostly though, you just shafted yourself by playing the most overpowered build before AE, that since AE has been the most nerfed  ;D
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 13 April 2018, 10:47:24
AE is a bit different, but mostly though, you just shafted yourself by playing the most overpowered build before AE, that since AE has been the most nerfed  ;D

It's not like I was any good with it anyway, I'm possibly the worst gamer ever.

People can say a build is op or impossible to kill all they like, I can make it look like that isn't the case.

I think epic had always been simpler than normal because you had functional build by that time, while monsters weren't really dangerous yet.
I don't know if that's going to be the same for me though.

If "enemies take ages to take down" with ternion it means that you really have a poor staff or you struggle with energy so that you can't spam ternion.
Not so much the damage though I'm not exactly one-shotting things.
It's just that enemies move around a lot, then there's one with shields or the projectiles pass over them or they just have lots of resistences.

Lvl 32 is somewhat early to begin with act 4 if you play self-found. Take your time and make some farming or shop runs. Sooner or later you will find medium gear and then good gear.
Dunno what levels the game expects me to be in when I do every quest I find and uncover ever part of the map so I end up killing everything.
Also I have no luck with farming so I'd just be wasting time.

Also try different builds, another gameplay can suit you more.
I think I've pretty much tried everything.
In any kind of game I've played, I've been crap in any kind of playstyle.

Sorry if this post is all over the place with quotes and stuff.

With time playing this game, I may only have 148 hours in AE but I have 689 in the original (plus IT) on Steam and god only knows how many on the old physical copy.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 13 April 2018, 11:17:53
@Deepblue c'mon man don't be like that.. games aren't about being the best or being the worst, it's about having fun.. at least that's what it is for me.. and if you really think you're that bad, well that's what forums are for.. I've learned things from other people, maybe you can learn from us too :) ..  and really you shouldn't think about being the best or being the worst.. it's lonely being the worst and it's also lonely being the best because that means there is nothing left for you in the game

regarding epic, early epic really is easier than late normal.. but of course the difficulty picks up in later acts
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Laionidas on 13 April 2018, 11:24:57
Also try different builds, another gameplay can suit you more.
I think I've pretty much tried everything.
In any kind of game I've played, I've been crap in any kind of playstyle.

Sorry if this post is all over the place with quotes and stuff.

With time playing this game, I may only have 148 hours in AE but I have 689 in the original (plus IT) on Steam and god only knows how many on the old physical copy.

Try a different character. It's random, but sometimes you can just feel unlucky with a certain character, especially when it comes to drops.

Build a character around a piece of gear you allready found, or go for a cookie-cutter build. This one looks like fun. (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc85a785a7rune067c.html?mastery=Berserker&master1=10&master2=3&sa=30&m1=32-0-6-1-0-10-0-0-6-10-0-0-0-0-12-12-0-0-0-8-6-0-0&m2=32-6-1-8-6-8-6-0-6-12-10-8-6-6-12-6-8-0-6-6-1-0) You'll get a lot of offensive ability from skills, so you don't have to worry about stats too much, and it's perhaps the king of procs.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 13 April 2018, 12:39:30
Try a different character. It's random, but sometimes you can just feel unlucky with a certain character, especially when it comes to drops.

Build a character around a piece of gear you allready found, or go for a cookie-cutter build. This one looks like fun. (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc85a785a7rune067c.html?mastery=Berserker&master1=10&master2=3&sa=30&m1=32-0-6-1-0-10-0-0-6-10-0-0-0-0-12-12-0-0-0-8-6-0-0&m2=32-6-1-8-6-8-6-0-6-12-10-8-6-6-12-6-8-0-6-6-1-0) You'll get a lot of offensive ability from skills, so you don't have to worry about stats too much, and it's perhaps the king of procs.

That build just seems a bit.....I dunno, bet it requires a lot of getting hit, standing in large groups of enemies to work.
and with some of those skills only lasting 3 secs, must require a lot of thinking constantly trying to juggle skills a lot.
I also don't know where attribute points go and what very specific gear I need, also I probably need to be max level with perfect gear for it to be any good like all builds.

Not sure what you mean by feeling lucky with a build and I've never been lucky in my entire time playing this game with drops.
and I can't build chars myself so building one around a gear piece is a big no no. I'm not a pro so I can't figure out all the little itricacies of each and every single piece of gear in the game.
I'm not like you guys.

Let's see

Seems whatever I do, something will stop me getting anywhere.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 13 April 2018, 13:09:00
@Laionidas yeah that skill distortion seemed off sorry dude :( ..  the 2 synergies of battle rage is not worth maxing.. 1pt is enough, even zero would be ok.. and since it's a late game build, i assume you consider +4 all skills.. casting ultimate max energy armor would be very difficult then because it's a dual wield str/dex.. sure you could keep items like pelaron and seal of the high priest just to cast it.. but by legendary, energy armor would dissipate too quickly it's very irritating to switch items constantly.. and the runeword:feather, why?


  • Caster type- Pro: lots of damage. Con: Fragile as hell
says who? ;)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 13 April 2018, 13:12:06
Well from my experience they are and that's generally what mage types are.
I guess not for you and everyone else in this forum because you're all pretty much the best players.

I really want to use pets but it's like this game doesn't want you to.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 13 April 2018, 13:41:24
Titan Quest, and Grim Dawn too are not usual in that dichotomy. Casters here don't have high damage, its weapon damage builds that do. Casters are great in normal but their damage does not scale as well in higher difficulties. So the only benefit you have as a caster is aoe. Maybe. You don't even have better crowd control or movement skills. In TQ casters are good with some difficult to find items like archmage clasp. Not that you absolutely can't live without them, but I'd stay away from casters for now until you better understand what you are doing. Oracle with ternion is not really a caster though, its weapon attack.

Regarding stats you maybe need to read a guide again, if one was salvaged from the old forum. Or perhaps there is a new one.

Generic rules may look like these

If you are a physical damage character you put nothing in int, and go str : dex 2 : 1
If you are pierce with bows/spears you go 1 : 1 str : dex in older versions and perhaps 2 : 3 now in AE/ragnarok. Don't skip on str completely as there are no dex armors in shops, only some MI (tigerman) and legendaries are dex based.
If you are some magic damage char like most casters you go int : dex 3 : 1 until 200 dex in older versions, then all int. Currently there is gear for casters with higher dex requirements so its more like 250 dex if not 300 in the end.

Don't put points in hp or mana. People did so only with points from quest rewards if lacking on one of these stats. Like 4-8 points total in hp for low hp casters or 4-8 points in energy for melee/archers low on mana. You get hp from advancing the mastery bars. Which is high priority, by level 34-38 you can have both of your masteries maxed.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 13 April 2018, 13:53:55
Yeah I remember those generic rules, that's what I did for both my conqueror and oracle

So from what I've read it doesn't matter what I do, I'm not amazing so I'm stuck.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 13 April 2018, 14:45:58
can i ask you both to click my sig (i eat mana for breakfast) ? and perhaps check my vids?

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=213.0

 :D
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 13 April 2018, 14:50:43
I have already.
The big difference is that you're good. I'm not.

A lot of these builds are really complicated and require perfection.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Laionidas on 13 April 2018, 15:02:55
That build just seems a bit.....I dunno, bet it requires a lot of getting hit, standing in large groups of enemies to work.

That's usually the case with dual-wield melee ;D

Yes, you'll lack defense, but you'll compensate for that with three things:

Ignore Pain, Hamstring, Dodge Attack, Runeword: Explode, and Tumult, all bolster your defense, and/or stun or slow enemies, while
you are actively attacking.

Below 40 health, Sacred Rage kicks in (buff and enemy debuff). Then there's Seal of Fate (enemy debuff and CC), Energy Armor (buff), and Battle Standard (buff and enemy debuff).

I'm not a pro so I can't figure out all the little itricacies of each and every single piece of gear in the game.
I'm not like you guys.

You're thinking about it too much. It's not like I'm a TQ pro-mathematician. In fact, I hate playing like that.

@Laionidas yeah that skill distortion seemed off sorry dude :( ..  the 2 synergies of battle rage is not worth maxing.. 1pt is enough, even zero would be ok.. and since it's a late game build, i assume you consider +4 all skills.. casting ultimate max energy armor would be very difficult then because it's a dual wield str/dex.. sure you could keep items like pelaron and seal of the high priest just to cast it.. but by legendary, energy armor would dissipate too quickly it's very irritating to switch items constantly.. and the runeword:feather, why?

Like you said, very late game, and grabbing Runeword: Feather can help while the offensive ability bonus lasts.

Energy Armor could be cast while under the effect of Battle Standard. Then just chug a pot after.

Anyway, it was a hastily assembled TitanCalc, more as an example of how to run with dual-wield Onslaught.

Generic rules may look like these

If you are a physical damage character you put nothing in int, and go str : dex 2 : 1
If you are pierce with bows/spears you go 1 : 1 str : dex in older versions and perhaps 2 : 3 now in AE/ragnarok.

In AE, I'd go Str:Dex 3:2 for physical damage characters actually. You want to be able to reliable hit what you can do damage to.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 13 April 2018, 15:37:38
That's usually the case with dual-wield melee ;D

Yes, you'll lack defense, but you'll compensate for that with three things:
  • high damage: kill them before they kill you, also works well with some life leech gear
  • passive and LMG-triggered CC (crowd control) and defense
  • redundancies

Ignore Pain, Hamstring, Dodge Attack, Runeword: Explode, and Tumult, all bolster your defense, and/or stun or slow enemies, while
you are actively attacking.

Below 40 health, Sacred Rage kicks in (buff and enemy debuff). Then there's Seal of Fate (enemy debuff and CC), Energy Armor (buff), and Battle Standard (buff and enemy debuff).
It.....sounds like fun, I just know if I can do it and all of this stuff seems only useful when the required skills are maxed. Below that, not so much.

You're thinking about it too much. It's not like I'm a TQ pro-mathematician. In fact, I hate playing like that.
after reading through the old forums, reading through this one, reading your stuff......to me it all sounds like that anyway. Do this, do that, don't do this without that, time this right, don't do that when you only have so much of that and only to certain targets etc......a second too late and you get one shot and stuff.

yeah that skill distortion seemed off sorry dude :( ..  the 2 synergies of battle rage is not worth maxing.. 1pt is enough, even zero would be ok.. and since it's a late game build, i assume you consider +4 all skills.. casting ultimate max energy armor would be very difficult then because it's a dual wield str/dex.. sure you could keep items like pelaron and seal of the high priest just to cast it.. but by legendary, energy armor would dissipate too quickly it's very irritating to switch items constantly.. and the runeword:feather, why?

This is what I mean by really complicated. Trying to read this and understand as an example.
Clearly I'm not thinking enough.

Anyway, it was a hastily assembled TitanCalc, more as an example of how to run with dual-wield Onslaught.
Probably not a good idea for me to use then. You can problem make anything out of quick builds and stuff but someone like me would probably need the most perfect build ever or something.

games aren't about being the best or being the worst, it's about having fun
Wouldn't it be nice if games were made this way?
But no, "modern games" are made for people to go around saying they beat this or that in a couple weeks or this is too easy on hardest mode and people who can't beat the game on hardest with no deaths are gaming cancer. People like me.

This is why every game these days is stupidly hard from the get go where no amount of "hand holding" (otherwise known as basic instruction) will help you.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 13 April 2018, 16:23:24
Ok I'll try this again.

Rune+Warfare looks fun.
But what about attributes....
Which mastery first?
Do I use swords? axes?
What gear stuff should I focus on getting? like the bonuses and stuff.

Should I just go Str+Str and then Str+Dex (and repeat) for attribute points?
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 13 April 2018, 22:11:10
@Laionidas you have a point.. i think it would feel clunky.. but it can be done.. you have a point

@Deepblue yeah you're overthinking things :)

man all this talk i feel they're complicated.. I'd rather stick with my casters where i don't have to think what my gear should be.. just recharge and + to all skills.. and playstyle is just mostly rightclicky.. I'm not pushing for it.. it is just what is simple for me :)

edit: no need to think about OA, DA, DPS, attack speed, shield block  ;D
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 14 April 2018, 00:21:23

games aren't about being the best or being the worst, it's about having fun
Wouldn't it be nice if games were made this way?
But no, "modern games" are made for people to go around saying they beat this or that in a couple weeks or this is too easy on hardest mode and people who can't beat the game on hardest with no deaths are gaming cancer. People like me.
i don't know about other people.. maybe it's like that playing online nowadays? i don't play online anymore

but my videos and guides are not meant for boasting.. i just want to help the way i know how
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 14 April 2018, 10:19:21
man all this talk i feel they're complicated.. I'd rather stick with my casters where i don't have to think what my gear should be.. just recharge and + to all skills.. and playstyle is just mostly rightclicky.. I'm not pushing for it.. it is just what is simple for me :)

edit: no need to think about OA, DA, DPS, attack speed, shield block  ;D

If I didn't think about those things, I'd just end up with a char who can't do a thing.
Maybe it's because you build your chars so well and you're so good at the game that everything ends up so easy and almost mindless for you.


Anyway so far with this Berserker, I've alternated between str/str and str/dex when putting in attributes like I did my last Conqueror. I've started with Warfare and put points mostly into the mastery with a single point into every skill I need as I unlock them. I've put a couple points into Rune when I got to that point just to unlock a skill or two. Once I've maxed Warefare mastery, I'll move onto Rune and do the same thing with that, only after maxing both masteries, will I then start maxing the skills.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 14 April 2018, 11:49:05
maybe you think i feel better with all those flattery but i don't.. it's true that i don't think about any of those when i play casters but i don't feel like explaining anymore.. we are trying to help you here but it seems you don't want us to
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 14 April 2018, 12:02:11
No it's not that.
I don't know if people seem to think I'm better than I am or something. Like, for everyone else the game is simple and doesn't need much thought. But that's different for me because I'm not that good despite playing a lot. When a piece of advice doesn't work for me, people just assume I'm not even trying even though I am, that's nobody's fault but mine though.

I'm not trying to flatter or anything like that, I guess I just don't see anything bad in anyone.

Great I'm already screwing up in another community, three days, wow a record.... Doesn't take long and then I'll be booted out.
This always happens, faster and faster each time.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 14 April 2018, 12:39:10
nah it's all good.. ok here's my thought process.. the OA, attack speed and DPS should be obvious enough because i use spells.. that is my game.. the DA and shield block, ok here's why.. my survivability mostly comes from kiting and CC.. that has always been my playstyle even before TQ.. in this game it seems like all masteries have some form of CC or survivability.. monster lure for hunting, squall and spell breaker for storm, slow and petrify for dream, etc.. most of those get better with cooldown reduction.. so cooldown reduction for me provides me with continuous casting of AoE spells as well as survivability.. the other priority for me is +to all skills.. i think every character benefits from that.. resists too of course.. everything else are just bonuses for me like percentile damage, run speed, energy regen, etc

so there i don't think about OA, DA, DPS, attack speed, and block chance.. of course the familiarity with the game is a big help.. also this is just me.. other people have their own styles and preference.. i wish to learn actually from other people and i have.. that's why i like reading guides and watching gameplays
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 14 April 2018, 12:41:12
other people have their own styles

I don't think I have a playstyle.
Obviously you find it just by playing everything and finding what works better.

and I haven't found anything.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 14 April 2018, 13:18:35
There is nothing like GrimTools for TQ but maybe if you upload your problem characters somewhere like dropbox, someone here will be able to pinpoint your problems.

I don't know how berserker could potentially help you btw, if I were to advise some of the simplest ways to play this game that are not conqueror, I would take the new nature mastery for briar ward and plague, or earth for core dweller on agressive. Both are pets though and only become good in epic.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 14 April 2018, 15:17:29
Berserker seems fun so far.
I've gotten more than halfway to filling the warfare mastery, only put a little in rune so far.
I can imagine it being even more fun once I fill rune and get the dual wield passive and a few other things.

I know there's no specific weapon for rune or warefare like there is with defense (the crushing blow passive), I've decided on dual wielding axes, never used axes before so that'll make it a bit different too.

Just wish there was a gap closer for when I fight ranged enemies. Especially large groups so I can target the ranged first, zip into the group and take them out then focus on the melee.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Laionidas on 14 April 2018, 15:34:14
I know there's no specific weapon for rune or warefare like there is with defense (the crushing blow passive), I've decided on dual wielding axes, never used axes before so that'll make it a bit different too.

I haven't tried this in a long time, so I'm not sure, but back in the day I'd always go for a sword in my main hand, and an axe or a club in the off-hand. That way you got the base attack speed and thus absolute chance to proc of the sword, but the higher damage per hit of the axe or club when it did proc.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 14 April 2018, 15:59:13
uhh....lol see that's what I mean by you lot being so good.
Stuff like this, it's common knowledge to you guys but I have no idea  :P
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Firebrand on 15 April 2018, 02:32:31
I can understand why you'd want to use two axes, though. I personally like wielding two weapons of the same type, but two swords are too fast (would go over the attack speed cap), and two clubs... well. And you're a Berserker, after all! What goes better with a Berserker than double axes?

As for closing the gap to ranged enemies, War Wind is an excellent skill that will help you out there. The +300% movement speed makes you fast as lightning. Before Ragnarök (or Anniversary Edition, for that matter) one of my favorite Warfare tricks against a lot of archers was using War Wind and then immediately following up with War Horn. As a Berserker, you have Thunder Strike for another area attack, too!

I myself have a Berserker beyond halfway Act III now. I personally find it great fun so far. I hope you'll feel the same!
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 15 April 2018, 11:05:51
Didn't really think of warwind being a gap closer. I know there's the speed buff but since you just spin around I just use it in groups of enemies when I'm really close to them.
A single point (and a single point in lacerate too) is all it takes for me to drop a group of centaur so far (except the leaders of course).

Seems with this build suggested, I'll only have a couple of skills (and two of which I'll only use on bosses and minibosses, maybe heroes if I have to) so that will keep things simple.
The rest are passives.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 16 April 2018, 14:37:06
Guess who died on normal...
I did....
I died on normal.

Not even the DLCs either, it was Act II.


I seriously don't belong here.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 18 April 2018, 16:06:40
Ok maybe melee isn't the best thing for me.

Berzerker was fun, was fun seeing how long I could keep sacred rage up but I'm chugging potions like an addict and this won't bode well for Olympus (in particular, those cyclops and Typhon himself) and the two dlc acts won't be fun either. I can kill stuff easily, halfway through Act III but the difficulty curve will turn into a wall the second I hit Olympus.

No I think a ranged mage type is best for me. Still fragile but I can stay out of range. (plus if push comes to shove, I can cheese Typhon easily even if it takes ages)

Does anyone know a build guide? Preferably either Spirit+Storm or Dream+Spirit, or whatever is a good beginner one (I know I'm not a beginner but I may as well be).
Hopefully one that allows use of summons too, I like using summons.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 18 April 2018, 16:54:21
If you like summons that is what you should have done from the start. Summoners do not need gear, just yellow jewellery with pet damage - you have seen that in drops and shops all the time. Just grab nature, wolves, healing, heart of aok and briar ward, then add plague and refresh. pair it with whatever you want.

Warfare for battle standard which may be the highest damage option, and you can try to abuse ancestral horn. Though don't really need to, wolves with standard wipe the floor with anything that does not oneshot them outright.
Dream for nightmare buff and versatility - you can alternate trance of convalescence and empathy - the latter is for bosses that destroy pets like Yaoguai. For reflect, in combination with briar ward.
Earth for one more tough pet with provoke that attracts all attention. Though you don't need that with briar ward.
Storm for wisp, squall and the use of elemental damage on pets instead of physical. Runes seem to be able to do the same.
Spirit is a strange mastery for summoner since they nerfed life reduction, don't know why would you want it now, but maybe I need to try it to see it.

I think minmaxers around here should love the new nature mastery and briar ward. I know I did. Nature in TQAER is like dream in TQIT.

In legendary briar ward has 2,5-4K hp and grants up to 32% damage absorption on top of high regen. In act 1-2 most mobs don't even have damage to break that. In act 4-5 many do and will though. Either is has provoke now or mobs agro against sumons was changed - most mobs will completely ignore you for as long as there is at least one bush standing. Whatever breaks through (should be) under plague physical damage debuff (up to 52%) and won't hurt. To use briar ward on every pack you need some -recharge items (caster headgear and staves can have that, along with some epics and legendaries) and refresh skill.

Edit: just don't use briar ward when fighting Typhon, he'll heal himself full from it.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 18 April 2018, 17:13:57
I think I like anything really.
I'm just trying to figure out what suits me best, to make it easier for me (not easy, just easier so I'm not struggling so much)

Nature might be fun because it means more summons.

Storm might be a good pairing so I can use squall to nerf archers and mages a bit plus being able to do some damage myself.
Earth would mean the summon from it would take all non-aoe damage so the wolves don't have to (non-aoe because obviously all summons will take damage from that no matter what)
Never tried Dream, might be good. I'm guessing you protect summons with it.

I figure most people who go for spirit do it for the lich summon and ternion

Besides the skills you mention, I don't really know what skills to go for and if I max them out or put one point in or what.
I know to put all attributes into intelligence. What bonuses to go with pet jewellry?
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 18 April 2018, 17:55:25
Here is your plan for level 30 Link (http://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4d6f4.html?mastery=Ritualist&master1=4&master2=9&sa=5&m1=32-3-7-3-1-1-1-1-6-1-1-3-1-0-1-6-0-1-1-1-0-0&m2=16-0-0-0-1-1-0-1-1-0-0-0-1-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0)

And the end Link (http://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4d6f4.html?mastery=Ritualist&master1=4&master2=9&sa=30&m1=32-10-16-12-8-1-8-1-6-8-1-12-1-8-6-9-4-8-6-8-0-0&m2=32-0-0-0-1-1-0-6-8-0-0-0-12-8-1-0-6-0-0-8-0-0)

Nature mastery is pretty point intensive, if you want to do some damage yourself I'd take distort reality 1 pt with max temporal rift, but you'll have to move points in it from somewhere else.

Most of the time summoners use spirit and caster gear, staves can have pet damage but not only because of that. Some skills like healing are actually pretty energy intensive and caster gear has mana regen by default. Although with dream you can forgo that and rely on trance of convalescence instead.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 18 April 2018, 19:41:24
Those are some weird links, I can't click on them or open them in new tabs or windows.
Only bookmark them which doesn't do a thing.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 18 April 2018, 19:45:45
Oops, the default hyperlink on this board broke the format. They should work now
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 18 April 2018, 19:47:28
So I take it I'm going for nature first then.
I usually try to max the mastery and put a single point in each required skill before building them up but I take it that's not a good idea.

Sorry, I  just feel better knowing exactly what I have to do.
Like does it matter what element my stave is or do I go for a specific one?
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 18 April 2018, 20:02:19
You won't be using staves for damage or any other weapon so no. Unless your weapon has some pet damage it does not matter if you have any. Well, staves have flat mana regen so its better to have one anyway. Wolves are at 7 pt because at that level you get a second wolf. a few extra points in healing might be needed because otherwise it would be weak. The rest is indeed 1 point wonders until you max both masteries. After you do, max main skill first (wolves) together with healing, then plague, then auras, then passives and support skills
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 18 April 2018, 21:12:36
and I know to grab the 3rd wolf the second I find a mastery shrine.

Wait if I'm not actually using the staff, do passives like lucid dream end up on the summons too?
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 18 April 2018, 23:46:02
Lucid dream? Its more like me putting 1 pt in everything out of habit. No it won't affect summons. It will affect electric burn if you chose to use some.

Looks like the old nature guide from the old forum is gone. I have found another one (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-wanderer-nature-mastery-guide-by-tyr/). Use it for more ideas. Not that I agree with all the choices that person makes but at least he has some first hand experience in the expac. I have only been through it on all 3 difficulties with one character so far, and that one is a caster, not summoner.

That guy suggests tanking for your pets in late normal, that is how things were done before. I suggest using briar ward as a decoy instead so grab it as soon as you can. Another option is temporal rift in dream for petrification.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 19 April 2018, 07:16:20
Hmm.....ok, gonna have to figure this out now, lol, since I have two builds to look at.
I'm really not that great at this game so forgive me if I get confused at even the slightest thing.

Despite all the playtime I've put in, I only really know the gameworld itself well. What enemies are where (including what enemies are sometimes swapped at random for others) and all the nooks and crannies. That's all I really know well.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 19 April 2018, 18:36:14
I think what I'm going to do is, I'll use the titancalc guide you first provided since it's a little less complicated, but since I'm not using staves, I won't put points into Lucid Dream or it's upgrade and put them into something else.

Or I'll use the second build with more info....I really don't know...
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 19 April 2018, 22:12:53
Why don't you want to use staves exactly? Regrowth is an expensive skill and you will use it on cooldown. If you are not going to use caster gear you won't have mana, its a fail from the start  :). Trance of convalescence is deep into dream tree but you are going to need mana a lot sooner. To get trance sooner you will have to start as dream, but then it is going to be a different build altogether. Dream is best started as a caster with int gear (again) including staves. And only become a summoner in epic. Its an easy thing to do, maybe not as easy as a conqueror but simpler than a pure summoner through normal. Like this (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4d6f4.html?mastery=Ritualist&master1=4&master2=9&sa=5&m1=10-0-0-3-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-0-1-1-0-1-0-1-1-1-0-1-12-1-1-1-1-12-0-0-12-0)

And in case you actually want a summoner, here is a better plan for level 12 (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4d6f4.html?mastery=Ritualist&master1=4&master2=9&sa=1&m1=14-1-7-1-8-1-1-1-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0), level 24 (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4d6f4.html?mastery=Ritualist&master1=4&master2=9&sa=3&m1=32-1-16-1-8-1-1-1-1-1-0-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-0-0-0&m2=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0) and level 30 (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4d6f4.html?mastery=Ritualist&master1=4&master2=9&sa=5&m1=32-1-16-1-8-1-1-1-1-1-0-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-3-1-1-0&m2=13-0-0-0-1-1-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0)
Accelerated growth at max early. Main skill leveled up sooner like you're playing a caster (and wolves are your main spell). I've tried briar ward in normal and it has absolutely pathetic health there. So while it does work as a decoy its not for long, not to mention cooldown which you will not be able to adress for quite some time. Briar ward becomes good in epic (and excellent in legendary, just like other pets). 1 pt in both distort reality and temporal rift might be a better pick to help your pets in normal, but it also comes much later, around middle to late act IV I guess.

Concerning Lucid dream, it locks out the others passives in its tree, so you have to have at least one point in it to unlock them anyway. And you do want to unlock them. Why wouldn't you want free DA from a mastery skill? If you want to skip some points, put less in nightmare and nymph.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 20 April 2018, 10:51:23
Sorry,  I think there's a bit of confusion here.

When I asked earlier on in the thread what staff type I should use (fire, ice, etc), you said I wouldn't actually be using it except just for the extra regen in the first build you provided.
So I wondered, why bother using Lucid Dream since it's only for staff attacks. (not losing the staff itself, just the skill point in lucid dream.

I've only just noticed that the other two passives in the same tree are nothing to do with staves after you mention it just now. Thought they were separate, just noticed the line.

Sorry, like I said, I'm really really bad at this game. Also Dream isn't a mastery I've used at all....well, yet anyway.

and now I shouldn't be using summons until a difficulty I probably won't even make it to....
Despite all the masteries and weapons and stuff, this game really only wants you to play a certain way doesn't it?
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 20 April 2018, 11:30:51
you can play any way you want in this game.. but then again I'm so good that everything comes easy and mindless for me.. ughhh i got hurt by that comment you know? but nahhh none of it now.. also stop looking down on yourself.. please.. no seriously ;D you'll get better at this game but you have to put a little trust on yourself :)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 20 April 2018, 11:55:13
lol yeah, if only that worked the many times I've done it.
If only this happened for any game I play. I've got so many, played them so many times but can't even get halfway on the easiest difficulty.
So forgive me if I find it doesn't work for me.

Sorry, so many people act as though you can simply "get better" with a bit of this thinking.
Or maybe it works for everyone else, just not for me.

Pretty sure you need actual skill you can develop and not just trust in yourself on it's own.

...sorry...
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 20 April 2018, 14:54:01
Sure, you can do whatever you want when you know what you are doing. And when you don't, its better to stick to more established routes.

Quote
Pretty sure you need actual skill you can develop and not just trust in yourself on it's own.
Nope, not at all, this game is not about skill, it is about gear. With appropriate gear you should be sleepwalking through normal content. Not even excellent, just appropriate. If you're not trolling us here I fear no build swapping will help you. What possibly can is showing us your problem builds and their stat pages. What happens when you think you fail. Sounds like you just come to the fight with inappropriate stats but then you seem to know what the words "DA" and "resistances" mean and I don't know what to think.


Quote
and now I shouldn't be using summons until a difficulty I probably won't even make it to....
Not using summons in normal was common in TQIT because their hp did not scale well in act IV. I think I leveled most of my summoners that way. As casters, or even melee (champion). Now there is an extra reward for killing giant yeti boss which gives you +100% pet health. From what that guy I linked you above writes even with this they are fragile.

Of course no one considers normal, its fast and gone. It is in legendary where people start having issues and it is there where summoners are simpler to play than your average attack build.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 20 April 2018, 16:32:10
If you're not trolling us here
So many people jump to this with any game I play due to games apparently being so easy nowadays that hard is too easy and a baby can do easy without trying in a few days.

Quote
I fear no build swapping will help you.
I'm not exactly just trying to swap over and over, I know that won't help me get better.
What I'm trying to do is find what suits me best. So I can focus entirely on that one.

Quote
Not using summons in normal was common in TQIT because their hp did not scale well in act IV. I think I leveled most of my summoners that way. As casters, or even melee (champion). Now there is an extra reward for killing giant yeti boss which gives you +100% pet health. From what that guy I linked you above writes even with this they are fragile.

Of course no one considers normal, its fast and gone. It is in legendary where people start having issues and it is there where summoners are simpler to play than your average attack build.

It's like they (TQs original dev team) forgot about summons during the later half of development and only remembered they exist after finishing IT.


I can sorta get through base normal fine enough, Act I is slow but kinda easy, Act II is easy and faster and Act III gets a bit tough and things get a bit slow again in parts toward the end.
Though I barely get through Olympus and I've never completed IT, I struggle through most of that and hit a wall when fighting Hades.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 20 April 2018, 16:56:34
Still, why wouldn't you show us the stats of your characters? Two pages with main and secondary resistances, OA, DA etc. It might also reveal something about your gear.

Hades is trivial with capped vitality resist. Get yourself a demon's blood on a ring, or better two (if normal ones).
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 20 April 2018, 17:22:19
I don't keep them, I remove them and try something else if I'm basically beating against a brick wall with no progress.
I'll do it for this next one though.

Now that I know a ranged caster type with summons is probably what I want to do, I won't have to keep swapping and stuff.
Once I definately know what I'm doing, I'll make a start and never stop with that build.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 21 April 2018, 12:43:37
Hmm.....Ritualist (Nature+Dream) or Prophet (Dream+Storm)

Ritualist has more summons, Prophet would have a good aoe (especially against ranged)...
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 21 April 2018, 13:38:06
Not getting into Epic or Legendary isn't unusual for me.  I try out so many different builds very few of mine ever make it into the latter difficulties.

What you could do is post your builds using the TitanCalcAE so we can see where you're putting points and possibly make suggestions to improve them.

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-anniversary-edition-calculator/
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 21 April 2018, 13:44:00
Yeah like I said, I don't actually have one right now so I can't do that, but I can when I start a new one if I run into problems.
Dunno why I never thought of doing things that way though, thanks.

I think what's best is if I get an easy build or something.
Which mastery combo is an easy mage/caster build to do.....
I'm aware a lot of people swear by Dream+anything.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 21 April 2018, 14:06:42
Dream can be good, but I find it's AoE spells a bit limiting since they only go a certain distance and can't be cast through walls, etc.  I'd go for Storm for Squall and Lightning Bolt since both can be used that way.  That said, an Haruspex (Hunting/Dream) can be very strong if you want a ranged bow using toon. With both Trance of Convalescence and Herbal Remedy you get plenty of health and energy regn, Nightmare's Hypnotic Gaze to confuse enemies, etc.  If you don't mind playing with pets then a Druid (Storm/Nature) could be good.  Max wolves straight away and they'll get you though most of Acts 1 and 2 without too many problems.  Throw in the Nympth and Wisp and you've a good team working for you while you cast Squall, Lightning Bolt or Plague from afar.  Set them to aggressive (right click on their icons and choose that) and watch them go to work.   A Sage (Hunting/Storm) might be another good choice, or if you want a melee then try a Paladin (Defense/Storm) or Juggernaut (Defense/Earth).

The main thing to bear in mind is not to max out skills eary.  Very few of TQ's skills need to be maxed: Onslaught, Wolves (if playing a petmancer), Squall are pretty much the only ones you need to max right off.  Otherwise you're better climbing the masteries and putting just a point into each skill you want to use since the masteries themselves help you with str/int/dex, health and energy increases helping you stay alive.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 21 April 2018, 14:10:48
Yeah I know about not maxing skills straight off, I pretty much always just put a point into skills I'm going to use and focus on maxing the masteries first.
Druid might be good. I want to use summons and aoes are always a good thing. Now to find a build.

Edit: I'll use Tyr's wanderer guide to figure this all out.

What is best for pet gear? (health+armour, elemental damage, etc)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 21 April 2018, 16:27:36
Pet gear? Two rings and necklace with pet damage, staff with pet damage. Update them as soon as you can. You start with beastcaller's (tier 1, level 3), then spiritcaller's (tier 2, level 14), summoner's (tier 3, level 28) etc up to the new tier 6 and 7. Somehow tier 3 pet jewellery is never in normal shops, though it drops in act 4. But you can always start one of your old characters and buy some in early epic, especially since you say the game is hard for you. Oh, wait, you don't have any. Well, don't know why would you shoot yourself in the leg like that.

For a druid that damage should be elemental because wisp can buff it and does some itself, while you can debuff it with plague and squall. Spirit class can use vitality because it can debuff it with deathchill. All the rest use physical. Wolves strength of the pack skill buff physical and plague debuffs physical, so its the safest choice overall. It does not matter in early game though, in normal Greece just use what you can, then start specializing once you get access to tier 2 and higher.

In TQAER some artifacts and other items got pet stats too, try to get yourself razor claw for normal/epic.

Summoners do not need any damage except this pet damage, so fill the rest with all the resistances you can get, and maybe some hp. If one of your masteries is nature, try to get -40% recharge for briar ward. Briar ward will solve 3/4 of your survivability issues and help your pets too. Thats in epic and later, don't bother with -recharge in normal, its scarce there. If you heal alot and also cast spells you will appreciate reduced mana cost, though its not always easy to get outside jewellery (and your jewellery is reserved for pet stats).
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 21 April 2018, 17:08:04
But you can always start one of your old characters and buy some in early epic, especially since you say the game is hard for you. Oh, wait, you don't have any. Well, don't know why would you shoot yourself in the leg like that.

I've never made it into early Epic so this wouldn't make a difference anyway.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 21 April 2018, 17:17:31
Wasn't there at least one brigand? I almost forgot about defensive ability, be sure to get some too.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 21 April 2018, 19:03:02
Oh yeah, I just barely got into Epic on a Brigand way back before I got the Steam version.
and that was mostly due to cheesing everything with kiting with passives like scatter shot, no skills or anything. Just dodge, fire, dodge, fire.
I'd imagine actually doing Epic (and Legendary) like that wouldn't work though.

Well with AE, I have no idea if I will or not because every enemy appears to have been buffed to hell and back.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 21 April 2018, 21:28:53
Ok I've started my Wanderer and so far so good.
already 4 points into the wolf and I even found a mastery stone early so a much stronger summon until I quit the game.
and a point into plague too and a point into maul.

When I can't put a point into a skill, I'll put two points into the mastery and a point into the wolf until it hits level 7.
Upon getting to level 8, I'll unlock Storm and try and get to Squall and max it.

I might get the Nymph when possible, I like have lots of summons just running around and destroying everything.

I know it's just early days with this one but I want to make sure I'm on the right track. I can respec later but it's expensive.

What you could do is post your builds using the TitanCalcAE so we can see where you're putting points and possibly make suggestions to improve them.

The trouble is trying to remember where I put the points before quitting and sticking them into TitanCalc.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 21 April 2018, 21:50:41
Try and max wolves asap because then when you get a mastery shrine you'll be able to call up a third wolf which increases their damage.  :)  Will stay summoned until a wolf dies or you finish a play session.  Also as a caster look for staves and necklaces that give +1/+2 to Nature to be able to have a third wolf out all the time and also other items which give +1/+2 to all skills.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 21 April 2018, 22:21:12
Yeah I remember that.
The first actual boss, that centaur gave me a bit of trouble though.
The wolves don't hold aggro for very long so I ended up taking a lot of damage from all the centaurs chasing me meaning that the wolves also could barely hit the moving targets.

Also before that, when I only had 5 points in (so no 2nd wolf), the summon died to a huge pile of undead it decided to aggro...
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 21 April 2018, 22:36:51
Keep well back and let wolves do the work.  If you cast a spell before they engage the enemy they'll switch their focus to you and come after you.  Only cast after wolves/pets have already started their attacks.  And if you get chased, run around in a circle.  That way pets can catch up and attack.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 21 April 2018, 22:38:10
Summoner starts very slow. If someone thinks starting as melee is slow and painful they shouldn't try summoners. It catches up later, but in Greece boss fights are looong and drawn out. Buy a few scrolls for bosses, storm witches do fine. Megalesios is the biggest bastard, not just because he converts summons, his limos will heal him. Assign a hotkey to "select all summons" in the menu if you didn't already, to order pets to attack limos instead. There are 1001 other situations where this hotkey will help too.

Yeti health buff seems to help, they aren't exactly tanks but at least late normal aoe does not oneshot them and I can heal them out. Moment of truth will be past tower of judgement I guess.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 22 April 2018, 21:14:53
So far so good, Bosses aren't too hard but I do have to use potions sometimes when I get hit and try and lead the boss in circles.
Have had one or both wolves die sometimes because they'd go after a certain target in a large group and targetting them and making them return to me would only work for a second before they turn around and go back to fighting.

Wolves are level 8 now so I'll start focus on getting Squall.

Edit: More wolf deaths because they keep aggroing everything.
Still......I did find out that hitting a bleeding target with vitality damage does a lot more damage than on a non bleeding target.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 23 April 2018, 07:20:37
Max wolves and look for those + items I mentioned.  And better the wolves die than you do.  ;)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Laionidas on 23 April 2018, 10:42:15
Also, pets are supposed to die in Normal. You'll see a significant boost to pet life expectancy in Epic.

Even maxed, my wolves were dying left and right in Act IV Normal. In Act I Epic, I can just summon them once though, and they'll live and steamroll through an entire session.

This is what I'm currently working towards. (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcfda3fda3fda3.html?mastery=Guardian&master1=4&master2=5&sa=30&m1=32-0-16-1-0-12-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-16-6-12-12-0-1-0-12-0-0&m2=32-0-12-0-0-12-12-0-6-6-6-1-1-0-6-8-6-6-12-1-6-0-0) It's my favourite character.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 23 April 2018, 11:04:27
They should do pretty well up until Act 4 Normal.  The IT expansion boosted difficulty all round and they do tend to go down quickly in that Act.  Can't say how well they perform in Act 5 since I haven't run a petmancer through there yet. 
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 23 April 2018, 11:25:38
Act V is easy on pets until Muspelheim aoe damage. I've spotted t3 pet jewellery in normal Corinth shop by the way. So its not all grim for you in normal, you just need to get to act 5 to upgrade. Next tier t4 pet items are still around act III epic though.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Laionidas on 23 April 2018, 11:32:16
They should do pretty well up until Act 4 Normal.  The IT expansion boosted difficulty all round and they do tend to go down quickly in that Act.  Can't say how well they perform in Act 5 since I haven't run a petmancer through there yet.

Before Act IV Normal, they don't really die, but they're not really contributing anything either. Most characters at that level will struggle to have enough points invested in pets and their synergies for them to be effective.That combined with the fact that they tend to die by  Act IV Normal (by which time they could be effective skillpoint wise), makes that pets are still pretty much useless in Normal in my opinion.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 23 April 2018, 12:24:39
Max wolves and look for those + items I mentioned.  And better the wolves die than you do.  ;)

Trying to max wolves but I still need to add points to mastery so I can have enough energy, intel, dex, etc.
I did manage to buy three jewellry pieces with summon bonuses though, all three in phys damage.
Also plague isn't really all that useful with just a single point as well as one point in the 1st upgrade.
Also need to get squall and it's upgrade.

So far the only blue I've found is the necromancer staff which could be useful if I hit targets after the wolves inflict bleeding on them.

Right now regular enemies are easy, I don't even have to lift a finger except if their health goes down a bit too much.
Bosses are kinda easy if I kite them in circles.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 23 April 2018, 12:33:01
Should have maxed wolves straightaway.  It can be done by L7.  Then they shred things while you do the other stuff.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 23 April 2018, 12:47:47
Sounds like I already messed up the build......
Nice....
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 23 April 2018, 12:49:26
I didn't max them until late act II... Was too busy with stats for item requirements and all
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 23 April 2018, 12:51:34
Yeah that's what I was trying to do with points in the masteries because I'm already getting to the point where I don't have enough dex for stuff when normally I'd be just fine for all gear as I find them.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: MedeaFleecestealer on 23 April 2018, 13:00:44
Build's not necessarily messed up, it just means you're going to have to be more active fighting/spellcasting.

You might want to have a read of Tyr's Wanderer's Guide to Nature.  Written for the IT version of the game he has updated it to cover AE as well.

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-wanderer-nature-mastery-guide-by-tyr/]

It should give you some ideas on how to proceed, what items to look for, how to spread your attribute points around, etc.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 23 April 2018, 13:32:58
Yeah that's what I'm looking at. Good for knowing how many points to put in each skill (and it's always single point or max out)
It's why I knew to use the phys. damage pet bonuses and not vitality or elemental.

......Huh, actually for Druid it's saying use elemental damage for pet gear..
I'm guessing to increase the storm nimbus damage

I managed to max wolves by removing the single points in heart of frost, the 1st upgrade for plague and survival instinct, and I was close to levelling up during this time so I dumped those points in the wolves too.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 23 April 2018, 14:09:01
so you're playing a druid i see.. an int build focusing on pets? if you don't mind drinking mana pots, storm has one of the best early game skills that can tear down enemies much quicker than the wolves can.. it's good against everything except the water/cold elementals in act 5 but by then you should have a few points on lightning bolt already which is actually their weakness.. as you advance difficulties, it will wane a bit but that's where nature comes in.. endgame looks like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TitanQuestAE/comments/7waf8u/defeating_legendary_hades_x5_with_druid/

the idea is briar ward gives you protection and energy regen.. then for damage, double resist reduction.. it's actually not that hard to build because ice shard is just very good early game you could do a lot of farming with it.. well it's up to you.. just good luck
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 23 April 2018, 14:31:36
Sometimes I hear mentions of Ice shards being good but then I also see builds that don't use it, so I have no idea about it.

So what is the best early game skills from storm that you mentioned at the start of your post? You didn't actually say.
Or were you referring to Ice shards?
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 23 April 2018, 15:15:11
Ice shards caster druid is gear dependant. It needs lots of mana cost reduction while also needing high cast speed, -recharge and int/elemental damage together with all the defense stats. Perhaps you can get by in normal with golden fleece in chest and low ice shards levels, but don't go deep into this until you can assemble something like 70% reduced mana cost from gear on the go. At which point together with briar ward 32% reduction spells cost no mana.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 23 April 2018, 15:40:12
Soooo......bad idea then.
I mean, videos like that one just posted.....yeah, all mastery combos are amazing, it just needs you to be really good at building characters.
I don't really know why some people find it surprising when one of their builds is really amazing.

It's all down to the player and their knowledge of the game.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 23 April 2018, 19:23:22
mammoth.. I've played lots of self-found ice shard builds pre-AE.. granted it's pre-AE but you need those same things you mentioned.. i just drank lots of mana pots.. are you sure you've played it even once? I've played it self-found ice shard prophet, self-found ice shard elementalist.. I've played it paladin but can't remember if that one was self-found

edit: I've even tried it accomplished hero character with nothing but store bought yellow items.. and yep it's still good.. i just drank lots of mana pots.. I've also talked to several players on reddit saying they're playing self-found ice shard.. all of them saying they're having no problems.. those ones playing AE.. ice shard has always been known to be very good in normal and weak in legendary.. it's always been the flaw of ice shard but if you know what you're doing, you can still make it viable in legendary.. Deepblue probably don't know what he's doing but that's where i come to help.. when it comes to casters, modesty aside, i consider myself a pretty good player  :) .. but Deepblue of course you can just go the pet way it's always up to you.. in fact it's beneficial to me because it's not my specialty so i don't have to think and butt in
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 23 April 2018, 19:53:19
Ok got a third wolf after finding the 2nd mastery stone ever in the game at the beginning of Act II due to bad rng, first one I found was all the way back in Helos not far from the village.
Then I lost the wolf due to very powerful hero monsters, not 5 minutes after getting it.

Didn't even get the achievement for having 3 wolves and a nymph.

Wasn't all bad though, Rhakotis shopkeeper had a spiritcaller's amulet of servitude (elemental damage + health and armour bonus to pets)
Also managed to find a beastcaller staff too. So a full set now and starting to move onto spiritcaller.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 23 April 2018, 20:33:57
My only current character in legendary TQAER is ice shards druid and drinking potions is not what I consider good or convenient even if they are dirt cheap. 70% mana cost reduction isn't difficult by the way when you do have a few items to put on. Golden fleece + spellbound necklace is already 50%, add two rings with 10% each like Persephone's and Horus and voila, mana and mana regen are not needed.

Even if you take away mana cost reduction, consider what else you need to make it work, its full list of stats like I wrote here above, while a summoner only needs some yellow jewellery to get to excellent performance.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 23 April 2018, 21:31:12
i always find it confusing when people say you can't play casters because they are gear dependent.. it's like when you are playing casters it's impossible for you to find any items whether by loot or by merchants.. when i play i make sure my casters are wearing something :)

edit: if it's a naked character, I'd still rather play casters.. imagine a conqueror with no items.. that would be hell :)
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 24 April 2018, 00:34:31
this is what i meant by the way

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GCyrcNV3frU

unedited, uncut, nothing but store bought shitty items and mana pots
i even have 40 unspent attribute points
notice that i maxed nature even though i only spent a single skill point.. that is to get those free attribute points.. it's even better if you don't play it accomplished hero because you'll have much better items.. epic and legendary, time to invest in nature skills.. plague, pets, HoO and briar ward.. but yeah play how you want to play.. if you want wolves from the start, that's up to you.. if they can take down Typhon and Hades why not? me i can't say because i don't play pets only chars
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 24 April 2018, 14:03:02
Yay, awesome! Now make the starter do the same and not die halfway to a spider in the cave of whispers or something. I also don't play summoners except in TQ, nature pets at least look good, its not some ugly zombies you know. What is the problem with wolves though?

https://youtu.be/eImphklMSuE

80% vitality resistance. Sorry, I don't have another video with trash gear or something like that, it was done once and now she's in epic. If we were talking about how to defeat Hades without breaking a sweat its just that, vitality resistance. I'm sure botebote can do it with 0% and I can, but thats not the point.

Typhon killed more wolves, at low health he casts nothing but meteors, so its just meteors, meteors, meteors every 5 sec. Wolves die. But we have more wolves than he has meteors
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: botebote77 on 24 April 2018, 14:21:53
the cave of whispers? lolz i thought you were gonna say Hades because of course Hades would be difficult with those shitty items.. not even a demons blood.. let's just stop this now.. i don't want to help Deepblue anyway i imagine it will just go like:

Deepblue: I'm very weak i can't do it I'm just no good
me: where did you put your skills? attributes?
Deepblue: i can't show that because I'm very weak i don't know what to do maybe I'll just start a new char

:))

edit: the giant spider i admit i had problems with it when i was still fairly new to the game.. that was years ago in TQIT.. but when i got more experienced in the game, it has never been a problem on any of my characters self-found or not.. Barmanu has always been more difficult, or Hades, Typhon, Dactyl, demon bull (legendary version).. the giant spider it has never ranked in my most difficult to beat bosses
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: Deepblue on 24 April 2018, 19:03:20
Great, didn't take long to become a complete joke.
Forget it then, I'm hopeless....Who the hell finds normal even slightly difficult.....

It's true, I'm the kind of cancer many gamers talk about when it comes to ruining gaming.
Title: Re: Returning to TQ (+Ragnarok)
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 24 April 2018, 20:06:06
Great, didn't take long to become a complete joke.
Forget it then, I'm hopeless....Who the hell finds normal even slightly difficult.....

It's true, I'm the kind of cancer many gamers talk about when it comes to ruining gaming.
Sorry, messages like this just make me think you didn't come here to get help but for something else. I won't be trying anymore until I see your stats together with description of a situation that causes problems.