Author Topic: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion  (Read 68169 times)

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Offline soa

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Re: Soulvizier AERA
« Reply #315 on: 16 April 2020, 00:16:42 »
Yes, twinked means using gear from the stash. And yes, the mod is designed to be played self-found, at least that is my goal in terms of balance. Even if it’s not perfect now, that’s what I try to reach.
I can’t and won’t stop anyone from playing the way they want. If you want to collect items, you can do it in TQ Vault, no problem (except maybe a few bugs for icons like I said).
If you want to play with stashed gear from another playthrough, you can do it. What I say is just a piece of advice: it’s better to play self-found. Better balance, better interest (you’re always looking for new stuff instead of wearing overpowered stuff compared to what you find), you don’t have to constantly switch between Vault/mules and the game.

When I played with stashed gear, it always was a slippery slope and in the long term, it diminished my interest for the game.
At the beginning, the game becomes far too easy because you use very powerful equipment, it becomes boring. In the vanilla game, you can wear equipment from Legendary difficulty even when you are in Normal. Then you don’t look as actively for new stuff. Instead of looking if what you find is better for your character, you wonder if this item could be good for another character you may not have even created. So you make numerous switches between Vault and your game to try to find better equipment for your character, sort your gear, or to compare items, but Vault doesn’t allow you to see the real stats of items. So it just reduces the time you spend playing the actual game. Another issue is that there is no limit to the amount of loot you get in the Vault. So every character playthrough is easier than the precedent, that’s a very big issue to me. To “balance” this, you have to use difficulty mods, but a lot of them are not really balanced. If you don’t use difficulty mods, you end up with characters that are so overpowered that there is no challenge.

You also end up with the temptation to duplicate your best items, or have a toon make a loan to another, or have one character reusing the same set of items another character had when he had less levels. For relics, you start to duplicate an item and get the relic back at the enchanter, or freely separate them from an existing item you have in Vault. All this just reduces even more the interest to find new loot. Same with player “trade” or “gifts”, items have no value because anyone trading can just duplicate his saves or find seemingly legit items in a map mod. Then you go, “do I have to really farm for this completion bonus ?” and make it in Vault, or just go with Itemus or an equivalent, because at this point you don’t even care about the limit between cheat and legit gameplay.
That’s how it ended up for me, once you start to twink it’s very hard to set a proper limit, you always want to push it further.

To me, a better design would have been to offer a gigantic shared storage space ingame, but you would have to pay a special currency (crystals or whatever), or “magic find” to be able to retrieve an item this way. This would create interesting gameplay and you would go “do I really need this item right now ?”, or “I’m really struggling, I need new armor and weapon” or “just a new weapon”, or “no, I can live without it, I’ll save my currency for later when I need it more”. And to spice it up, when you retrieve an item from shared storage, monsters get more resistances or damage until you reach a few more levels.
The game (with the storage improvements in SV) actually has enough space for the way it’s meant to be played, self-found that is. You shouldn’t need TQ Vault, except for collecting and the pleasure of the eye. Maybe TQ Collector is better for that, I don’t know (but I reckon it would need more work to make it fully compatible with SV).

As a side note, I wouldn’t use Relic Vault. Sadly, I can’t make it as a personal stash.
So I’m sorry if that’s not the way you play, and you can still continue to play as you like, it’s just my advice.
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Offline AlcyonV

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Re: Soulvizier AERA
« Reply #316 on: 16 April 2020, 04:53:51 »
I agree for a very large part to what you say on twincked characters and using items from TQVault which is breaking the challenge and the interest in the game.

But I still want to collect and use all items I've found. And the vanilla game is not actually balanced for self-found.  With self-found only, you'll never equip a completed set. Or to craft a divine artefact, you will make dozens of boring hours of farming in lower difficulties, with a high-level toon, to get relics, charms an formulas you need ! It is also breaking the interest.

So I choose to have some rules from my own about transfer of items between toons :

- I store all the good items according to te act where I found them (with mules, but it can be wherever you want). It prevents from using OP items too early, so I transfer and use high-level items only in the act where I can find them, not before. No legendary in Normal...

- When I use an item, I never use it twice with another toon. After that, I store it in TQVault for collection pleasure and I never take it out again. By the way, my toons never use the same gear and they all have to rely on what they find in self-found, on good items from marchants...

- I transfer relics and charms only to craft artefacts, never to enchant an item. For enchantment, I rely only on relics from self-found. So I keep a small part of good farming for relics that I need, completion bonuses...

- I transfer artefacts or formulas only to craft other artefacts, never to equip them directly. I can equip only artefacts whose formulas my toon found by himself. I keep the pleasure of finding good formulas...




Quote from: soa
As a side note, I wouldn’t use Relic Vault. Sadly, I can’t make it as a personal stash.

Does it mean that Relic Vault doesn't work at all in SV ?
« Last Edit: 16 April 2020, 05:01:19 by AlcyonV »

Offline soa

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Re: Soulvizier AERA
« Reply #317 on: 16 April 2020, 20:49:48 »
Of course, playing self-found also has its limits and disadvantages, particularly with vanilla. You get a more balanced game, but you also can’t really create bigger artefacts in a reasonable amount of time, complete sets and you miss a very large amount of the unique items the game has to offer.

Either way, it’s bad. I also tried to use a set of rules like you did, but I always wanted to change them, and with one playthrough you can equip many other characters. So eventually the game will become too easy, and if I ramp up the difficulty to compensate new players won’t be able to play. I’m reluctant to add difficulty changers right now.

So my goal is to get rid of the disadvantages of playing self-found :
-   In SV, merchants already sell artifact formulas.
-   I made a recycle system based on formulas (also buyable at merchants) to get new relics with the ones you don’t need.
-   I’d like to expand that for uniques and maybe MIs, so that you’ll be able to trade the stuff you don’t need for other unique items. You’d be able to target one particular item type (say you trade 2-3 uniques staves for a random spear). You’d also be able, once every 10 levels to trade more unique items against one particular unique item, if you really badly need it (would have to be balanced…)
-   Sets : I would create new quests that could start once you have a piece of the set, and that would involve spawning random enemies with a high chance of dropping a piece of the set. If time, create some specific quests with a story or special map, but that would be more time-consuming.
Moreover, most low level sets would be given a higher level version, obtainable more quickly if you have the low level version.
Set bonuses are already improved in SV.

For Relic Vault, it works in SV. It’s just that if you play self-found, it’s not usable for personal storage only (it would have suited better the gameplay I want).
« Last Edit: 16 April 2020, 20:54:36 by soa »
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Offline AlcyonV

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Re: Soulvizier AERA
« Reply #318 on: 16 April 2020, 21:01:49 »
Quote
So my goal is to get rid of the disadvantages of playing self-found :
-   In SV, merchants already sell artifact formulas.
-   I made a recycle system based on formulas (also buyable at merchants) to get new relics with the ones you don’t need.
-   I’d like to expand that for uniques and maybe MIs, so that you’ll be able to trade the stuff you don’t need for other unique items. You’d be able to target one particular item type (say you trade 2-3 uniques staves for a random spear). You’d also be able, once every 10 levels to trade more unique items against one particular unique item, if you really badly need it (would have to be balanced…)
-   Sets : I would create new quests that could start once you have a piece of the set, and that would involve spawning random enemies with a high chance of dropping a piece of the set.
Moreover, most low level sets would be given a higher level version, obtainable more quickly if you have the low level version.
Set bonuses are already improved in SV.

Sounds good !  :)

Offline Lallushe

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Re: Soulvizier AERA
« Reply #319 on: 17 April 2020, 00:44:15 »
This all sounds so exciting! I am really looking forward on the release. TQ was my favorite game (before AE) and still is, so seeing my favorite mod back in the old TQ days being reincarnated is a joy to be hold and reading your implementation plans just get me even more anxious.
I hope my excitement is utterly overwhelmed by the mod's quality and content.
Thank you in advance, in advance, because I highly believe it is going to be a good mod.
« Last Edit: 17 April 2020, 00:46:35 by Lallushe »

Offline soa

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #320 on: 19 April 2020, 20:17:27 »
For your information, this topic has been updated to give me the ownership.
To achieve that, the old topic in the "New Projects" section has been split in two :
- a remnant topic in the "New Projects" board, that shouldn't be used anymore
- this new topic, starting with a post of mine.
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Offline Antifringe

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #321 on: 14 June 2020, 08:50:51 »
Hello!  I joined the beta several months ago, full intending to be a good tester, but then COVID-19 happened and I had other priorities.

It's a bit late, but I have the time and energy now. 

I'm playing an Occultist, with an eye towards expanding into warfare.  The idea is to try out a DoT build.  DoT builds didn't really work well in original TQ, and poison DoT were especially bad.  TQAE allows DoTs to scale with player stats, which is huge, basically doubling their power by the time you hit Legendary.

Some of you might not know this, but the Occultist was the beginning of what is now Soulvizier.  Munderbunny, the OG creator, started out by remaking the Rogue mastery into something a bit more viable.  Once he had finished, he found himself with a knowledge base and skillset that lent itself to reworking the other masteries, leading to Underlord.  Underlord then got modded (a "mod-mod") into Soulvizier.  And now SOA is keeping the torch lit by carrying it over into Anniversary Edition. Thanks SOA!

Anyways, DoTs work now, but a Occultist-centric one might not.  The problem is that Bleed, Poison, and Vitality are all heavily resisted by Undead and Automatons, which is a huge slice of the monster pie. 

Thoughts as I play through the first half of ACt I:

-Holy cow, a monster hero in Helos!!!!  I drew the C_ Sow (don't remember the full name), which I'm pretty sure is a SZ original.  Fighting it at level 2 was impossible, so I lamely kited it into the invincaguards.  From a strict balance perspective, hros probably shouldn't spawn here, but it was so cool and exciting that I think it should be kept regardless.

-Found another new hero right after Helos, a new satyr one (Paterous or something like that).  Melee dude with Onslaught and maybe some other Warfare skills.  It's cool that heroes are more common now. 

-First death happened shortly after the medicine wagon, when I run into Direflock, the a new crow hero.  Really hard monster for a kiting build like mine.  He summons adds, and the adds are PERMANENT.  They're also faster than you, so they get to nip at your heels as you try to run away.  I finally beat him by getting the animation timings near perfect.  You want them to start their attack at the edge of their range, not when they're on top of you.  There's a little dance you have to do to make that happen.

-First feeling of frustration happened at the optional undead area right before the Spartan Camp.  I knew that a build leaning into poison, bleed and vitalty decay would have a hard time here, but I was hoping it would be okay.  It really wasn't. I'm not looking forward to the undead heavy areas later in the game.  I think that if Occultist is going to lean into poison as a primary damage type, it needs a good "in-house" was of reducing poison resistance.  Waiting until Act III to get Shen Dongs's Dark Medicine doesn't count as a solution.

I know that you get some RR from the Darkling skill tree, but it can't be spammed and is unreliable.  It's also super disappointing that you have to invest in pet skills to get basic support for poison.  I don't want pets, I just want a DoT build that uses moblity to get in and out of trouble while my opponents gradually melt away!

-Flash Powder feels weak, especially when I'm looking at the possibility of getting War Horn from Warfare instead.  The horn has a much better radius and applies a 100% stun.  Flashpowder is a smaller radius and has 35% of inflicting confusion, which is another way of saying it has a 65% of doing nothing :/   It gets better with more points, but it feels lame that you have to max it out before to because even slightly reliable.

-What if Flash Powder also carried a poison resistance reduction effect?  That would solve several problems.

-On normal flesh and blood monsters, being able to stack poison with bleed with vitality damage all at once feels good and is fun.  It's not very strong, mind you, but it works.

-I love the increased hero spawns, but I kind of wish there were even more.  Back in the day, I made a personal mod that cranked the hero spawn WAY up.  It was too much really, but a side effect is that heroes oftentimes spawned in clumps.  Like, you would get all three elemental skeleton heroes in a single spawn. These "hero clumps" were as tough as boss rights and were really fun.  Years later, Grim Dawn ended up doing a similar thing, but on purpose.   

-It's probably outside the scope of this project, but a thing I always wanted in TQ was more interactions with the various caves, tombs and other side dungeons.  Too many of them are just random dead ends with no quests, lore or memorable interactions.  I usually skip them because they just aren't interesting enough.  If I could wave a wand and do it, I would make every one of these things have something special.  Maybe a quest, maybe a lore note explaining what this place is and why it's like this, or maybe a unique purple boss hiding in the last room.  Just something to make it feel like the place belongs to the world and is doing something.

Anyways, love the mod.  Underlord was one of my all time favorite mods and I'm glad to see it being maintained and improved!

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to talk about the wraith...

So the reworked wraith monster (yellow champion-tier undead monster) really caught me by surprise.  He summons skeletons now.  Two per summons, the summons are permanent, and if they have a limit, it must be very high.  He also has a slow moving wave projectile that petrifies you if it connects.   That's definitely a SV addition, I don' think that any monsters before Act IV had access to that effect in IT or Underlord. 

Anyways, I thought it was a cool design that really helped redefine the encounter.  Can't believe he's just a champion, the hero wraiths must be crazy.

He was VERY hard for my poor occultist.  He resists all three of my DoTs, so I was left with just my weapon's base damage.  His adds made it hard to focus him with my throwing knives and precision strikes, and he tended to hold onto his petrify attack until I got close, which made attacking very hard.  I learned that I had to feint an attack to pull his petrify spell, and then quickly dive in with precision strike, and then run away.  Each time I did this, he summoned two more skeletons :_( . I beat him, but he was harder than most heroes.

I can start looking for +Damage to Undead gear, but
1)  That's hard to do reliably if you're not twinking
2)  It won't help when I run into automatons.

« Last Edit: 14 June 2020, 18:27:50 by Antifringe »

Offline Tauceti

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #322 on: 14 June 2020, 11:20:35 »
I'm playing an Occultist, with an eye towards expanding into warfare.  The idea is to try out a DoT build.  DoT builds didn't really work well in original TQ, and poison DoT were especially bad.  TQAE allows DoTs to scale with player stats, which is huge, basically doubling their power by the time you hit Legendary.

Have you considered playing spirit rather than warfare ? For a dot build, Shadow link and envenom weapon are well boosted from Necrosis if you play a melee char. You also have another bleeding source with wither. Concerning protection, i prefer smoke screen rather than flash powder for a tactical approach. Therfore, Vision of death from spirit could be used as a panic button.

Offline Antifringe

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #323 on: 14 June 2020, 12:12:38 »
Yeah, that might be better.  I wanted to have a less "magical" flavor for this character, but you're right about Necrosis. 

I just wish that I didn't have to have skills from a second mastery to make poison viable.  No other mastery has poison as a primary damage type, but poison is so heavily resisted and it sucks that you have to go outside of Occult to get a solution.

I don't want to be able to completely wreck undead and automatons.  I'm fine with them being hard for this build.  But my DoTs do almost nothing at all, and the secondary DoTs offered (vitality and bleed) are also resisted by the same guys. 

It feels weird that Spirit has the best (maybe only?) source of poison resistance reduction, but no source of poison itself.  In a way, Spirit ends up being better at poison than Occult.  Like, I could make a build using poison affixes and relics and go mono-Spirit and probably have an easier time.  The highs won't be as good, but the lows will be much better, and it's the lows that are killing the build.

I'm also generally disappointed in Flashpowder.  I want to like it, but it's so weak compared to similar skills in other masteries.  Visions of Death at one point is about as good a panic button as Flashpowder is at seven points.
« Last Edit: 14 June 2020, 12:30:58 by Antifringe »

Offline soa

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #324 on: 14 June 2020, 14:04:53 »
It is planned to re-add a "Disarm Traps" skill to Occult to help fighting against Devices and Constructs, as well as Spirit Ward to Spirit, albeit with lesser power than vanilla.
Total resistance reduction in Occult is in Aphotic Ichor (Toxic Concoction), or Shadow Rifts (Darklings), but they're not really pets, more like a bomb.
To me, yeah you just need to plan on having another source of damage against Undead. That can be another mastery (so it may not be advised to start a pure DoT build with Occult), Osiris relic in act II, affixes...

For affixes, actually only clubs and staves can have the of Necromancy (+50% to Undead) affix, I don't know why it was made like that, so I think I'll add them to other types of weapons.
There are also bows/throwing weapons and spears, in the second half of act 1 with a rare affix "of the Specter" giving +30% to Undead as well as bonus % Dexterity, DA, and a few Health Reduction.
Starting in act 2, Radiant affix (on armor) gives +15% to Demons and Undead, along with bonus armor and reflect.
I think another way of supporting melee and builds like that would be to add a low level artifact with some bonus against Undead, and maybe damage like Physical/Crushing, and retaliation to help during the early stages of the game, before you can access more diverse equipment and higher level skills.

Flash Powder doesn't seem so bad to me. Actually it has more range than vanilla and same power. It has 30% to Fumble and 30% of Confusion, so that's not 70% of doing nothing, plus these mechanics tend to be less resisted by monsters, heroes in particular, compared to Stun. But I think Vision of Death has been given way more raneg in SV.

Resistance reduction is tricky because it's one of the most overpowered mechanic in the game. I think Necrosis had reduced poison resistance to give another damage orientation to the mastery and to give another source of Poison resistance reduction than Plague modifier (Nature), and it's probably overtuned. Spirit also had Acid Rain, a poison/armor reduction cloud that I deleted to get more skill slots for other things. Maybe I'll readd it later.
« Last Edit: 14 June 2020, 14:16:11 by soa »
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Offline Antifringe

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #325 on: 14 June 2020, 18:23:30 »
I didn't notice the RR in Aphotic Mixture.  That definitely helps.  It's in the top tier though, so it'll be a while.  Still, it's total RR, which is really strong.

Flash Powder isn't bad in isolation, it just feels weak compared to what other masteries do at similar tiers.  I was wanting to stay mono-Occult for a while, mostly because it's my least familiar mastery, but I'm not sure that idea is really going to work.

Tauceti:  Good call on Smoke Screen.  I had glanced at it, saw the one second duration, and felt very "meh" about it.  I took a closer look, and noticed that it's a 20 METER RADIUS CLOUD HOLY MOLY.  So yeah, that looks really useful.  I'll respec into that.

« Last Edit: 14 June 2020, 20:49:36 by Antifringe »

Offline soa

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #326 on: 14 June 2020, 19:01:08 »
I didn't notice the RR in Aphotic Mixture.  That definitely helps.  It's in the top tier though, so it'll be a while.  Still, it's total RR, which is really strong.

Flash Powder isn't bad in isolation, it just feels weak compared to what other masteries do at similar tiers.  I was wanting to stay mono-Occult for a while, mostly because it's my least familiar mastery, but I'm not sure that idea is really going to work.

Tauceti:  Good call on Smoke Screen.  I had glanced at it, saw the one second duration, and was felt very "meh" about it.  I took a closer look, and noticed that it's a 20 METER RADIUS CLOUD HOLY MOLY.  So yeah, that looks really useful.  I'll respec into that.
Thing is, I don't think % RR will be that efficient for poison damage against Undead, because they have a base 70% Poison Absorption. So if they've got 0% additional poison resistance, that will do nothing.
Their Bleeding and Life Leech resists are at 1000% so that may not help either.
But their base Vitality resist is usually at 50%, so you may deal some damage to them if they don't have an additional Vitality resist (usually 100%... so reducing 150% to much lower than 100% is doable with multiple sources of RR, like Aphotic Ichor + Necrosis).
Toxic Concoction also has Piercing damage, RR may help with that, same for Blade Barrier.

Some skills are not meant to be compared directly between masteries. All in all, Occult offers more crowd control than Spirit (Mandrake/Nightshade, especially when combined with Throwing Knives, Flash Powder, Smoke Screen, pets, Toxic Concoction can slow and reduce damage, Calculated Strike, etc.)
Spirit has Vision of Death, Spirit Lure was added, and the rest is not that great for CC (Bone Spire last modifier requires quite a lot of investment, Deathchill Aura slows but requires you to be close)
« Last Edit: 14 June 2020, 19:03:43 by soa »
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Offline Tauceti

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #327 on: 14 June 2020, 20:22:37 »
But their base Vitality resist is usually at 50%, so you may deal some damage to them if they don't have an additional Vitality resist (usually 100%... so reducing 150% to much lower than 100% is doable with multiple sources of RR, like Aphotic Ichor + Necrosis).

I agree with poison and bleed being ineffective against undead. Regarding vitality, Necrosis was strong enough on my diviner (vanilla game) to break vitality resistance on undeads. Therefore i didn't need the use of another source of damage (But it was with the help of Ternion and Praxidikae staff which was  boosted in TQ-AE). Therefore, I hope Necrosis maxed + Shadow link would work on undeads with a melee char.

Offline Antifringe

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #328 on: 14 June 2020, 20:47:11 »
It's been a while since I've played, so I've forgotten some of the technical jargon that TQ uses. 

So Aphotic Mixture says "x% Resistance Reduction" and Darkling says "-x Resistance Reduction."  I had forgotten that those mean different things. 

I also had no idea that undead had absorption instead of resistance to poison.  Ugh.  The game doesn't convey important details to the player like that at all.  I also figured that their bleed resistance was closer to 100%, not 1000%.  Ugh again.  I'm starting to think that going all in on poison just won't work.  Other damage types can pull it off, but the devs seem to just really hate poison for some reason. 

I'll try the Spirit build, though I'm sad to have to abandon Warfare.  An elemental affix and gear might allow me to retain the DoT concept, but now I'll be splitting my damage types across four categories.  It'll be hard to make that efficient.

Random feedback: I ran into a crazy powerful satyr hero shortly after the dowry quest.  He was a lightning shaman with a rapid fire ball lightning attack and an undodgeable stun attack.  His regen was high enough that I couldn't keep pace with it and dodge his attacks at the same time.  I don't mind weird, out-of-depth encounters from time to time, but this guy seemed a bit extreme.  The design is good, it just felt way too soon.  I'd have to have strong resistances in both lightning and stun to fight him, and there's just no way to do that when you only have access to Helos.
« Last Edit: 14 June 2020, 21:14:49 by Antifringe »

Offline soa

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Re: Soulvizier AERA - General discussion
« Reply #329 on: 14 June 2020, 22:18:44 »
Random feedback: I ran into a crazy powerful satyr hero shortly after the dowry quest.  He was a lightning shaman with a rapid fire ball lightning attack and an undodgeable stun attack.  His regen was high enough that I couldn't keep pace with it and dodge his attacks at the same time.  I don't mind weird, out-of-depth encounters from time to time, but this guy seemed a bit extreme.  The design is good, it just felt way too soon.  I'd have to have strong resistances in both lightning and stun to fight him, and there's just no way to do that when you only have access to Helos.
It's extremely difficult to do anything with this kind of comment, without a screenshot of the precise location, and if possible the real name of the hero. I guess it was Karato, but he just can't spawn in this location, or I don't know how.
Soulvizier for AE, Ragnarok and Atlantis [released] :
https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=1201.0  / Discord : https://discord.gg/qs9t6AA
Overhaul mod with many new monsters, skills, items, features, balance and bugfixes. Increased difficulty.

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