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Titan Quest - Anniversary Edition => Gameplay => Guides AE => Topic started by: botebote77 on 27 October 2017, 04:39:53

Title: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 27 October 2017, 04:39:53
(https://titanquestfans.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5GJWfu5.jpg&hash=2442284546aa763b0de286cd9ce389d518c85482) (https://imgur.com/5GJWfu5)

This is a guide for the TQAE version of the bladeflinger build.

I think most pros already know of this but i just haven't found a guide for the AE version yet so i decided to just make 1 (this is different from the TQIT version).

This is a guide for those who have reached at least epic difficulty. Beginners can also do this but it'll take much longer for your character to take shape.

Ok let's start. A knifethrower is a rogue who uses throwing knives as main attack. You can have earth or storm as your 2nd mastery for some elemental damage (your a caster anyway). Many players don't know it yet but rogue is actually a very good caster. For my char i chose storm but I'm sure you can go with earth as well

Pros: Kills really fast and every attack is AOE/CC

Cons: energy probs and you're a glass cannon so don't get too close to mobs

Your very first target is to reach lvl 25 with whatever you have by just pumping dex (no strength). That's doable, right? you can add int so your staff (if you decide to go with staff) can do more damage but what you really need to pump is dex. You need 297 dex by lvl 25. You'll need to pre-farm SB cuffs (epic version) and an amulet that gives +2 to rogue (merchants sell it). Both items have a char lvl requirement of 25.. you need 297 dex to wear epic SB cuffs.

By lvl 25, your char should look like this:

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc9128.html?mastery=Sorcerer&master1=6&master2=8&sa=0&m1=32-0-0-1-12-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-1-1-0-0-6-0&m2=4-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

That's just lvl 21 but you get the idea. You should max throwing knives and flurry of knives as early as possible.

When you get to lvl 25, the fun finally starts. You'll be a true knifethrower. Your throwing knives will have zero recharge. Set it as your RMB and you can just spam it. You'll need lots of energy pots but that's not really a problem. You can enhance your amulet with spectral matter to help a little bit with your energy probs. By epic, most monsters have energy so you can leech energy and you don't have to carry much energy pots. You'll eventually want to max mandrake and nightshade so your attack itself is a CC. Storm nimbus tree or earth enchantment tree (whichever 2nd mastery you want) for some elemental damage. After pumping dex, you need to pump int. Storm Nimbus only gives puny elemental damage.. for one knife projectile that is. We're talking lots and lots of projectiles here. Trust me, it's worth it for this build. Endgame your char should look like this:

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc9128.html?mastery=Sorcerer&master1=6&master2=8&sa=0&m1=32-0-0-12-12-1-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-8-8-0-0-6-0-0&m2=32-0-10-1-0-8-1-0-12-0-0-0-6-12-0-0-1-1-0-8-0-0

or

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc85ef.html?mastery=Magician&master1=6&master2=1&sa=0&m1=32-0-0-12-12-1-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-8-8-0-0-6-0-0-0&m2=32-12-0-8-1-0-0-1-0-0-10-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-0-12-0-0

You'll eventually want to replace your epic SB cuffs with the legendary version (385 dex). You need int and dex for damage of course. Disarm traps is a good 1 point wonder skill to have here. Traps and constructs are immune to bleed and poison. Disarm traps take care of that and with your gear it becomes lvl 5. Definitely a good 1 point wonder

There you have it. Very easy to make and very easy to farm gear. You'll be surprised that it actually kills fast

notes: you need 120 str to wear epic SB cuffs and 144 for legendary.. just wear items that give some + to str.. casting speed from items is also good for this build.. you can also add a few points to strength to open more options for your other items but in my case i never needed to.. rogue mastery gives +56 to str anyways so that's 106 str with no items.. resistance reduction not from a weapon (like Polaris or monkey kings trickery) is gold for this build (actually it's a must in legendary).. also, see that attack damage converted to health from elemental rage? that would take you a long way.. but it must not be from a weapon


Now this is only for the mage version. I have also tried this with a knifethrower assassin and illusionist. Though for those builds, throwing knife is only used to reduce resistances and to proc granted skills. See here (http://titanquestfans.byethost11.com/smf/index.php?topic=19.0) for a knifethrower Illusionist. For a knifethrower assassin, you have to stack CDR so you'll be able to spam battle standard. Traps deal really good damage with battle standard. You also have to wear Key of Elysium (2 KOEs if you have) to summon ancestral warriors. It procs with knives and the recharge is only 6 seconds so you can summon multiple warriors. Now wear a mbutis advocate on secondary to proc study prey (it also procs with knives). It's like an assassin version of the petmaster champion. It's more gear intensive and harder to make but it's also more powerful imo

update for ragnarok:

Dex requirement for epic SB cuffs has been raised to 307 and 425 for legendary version. Str requirement likewise has been raised to 132 for epic and 170 for legendary. Doesn’t really mean much because lvl requirement is still the same. Just have to focus on dex and str more. Ragnarok also have Eitr charms which gives flat elemental damage and it is confirmed by at least 1 user that 2x Eitr on rings is worth for this build (credit to Gautrec).

This is actually playable self-found even for new players but a different route is needed. New players start with int instead of dex and become an ice-sharder. Of course storm would be the first mastery to take. When you finally have +4 to all skills or at least to rogue, start putting points in dex and eventually respec to throwing knives. You can also put some points in dex earlier like late normal or early epic for preparation for epic SB cuffs.

What does throwing knives offer that ice shards doesn’t? Better damage, confusion, higher DA because of dex, ability to life/mana steal, and access to spear or throwing weapons again because of dex

video link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV3mvWKepo
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 27 October 2017, 05:52:35
i wonder how this pairs with rune mastery
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: CrocMagnum on 30 November 2017, 14:36:05
Nice thread, botebote77! ;D Just a few questions:

1- In the old version the "Chance to Pass Through Enemies" was 100%, from Skill Level 1. Throwing knives was insanely fun. 

Comparatively in AE the Chance to Pass Through Enemies has been now set to 10%! And I'm not even talking about the Energy cost of the synergy, Flurry of of Knives, which has been increased a lot in the new version (cost x3!). This is a notable nerf.

So my question is: how this knive build fares comparatively to Immortal Throne?

2- What's your favourite 2d Mastery for this build?

Note: sorry I didn't notice your great post  earlier. ^^
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 01 December 2017, 09:28:20
thnx, this is actually my fave character

1) i actually think the nerf to 10% chance was necessary.. if not this would be too OP.. as compared to the TQIT version, i think that kills faster but the 2 are completely different in gear and stat optimization.. this knifethrower is dex/int.. before, it was mostly int and only little dex.. so this at least has more DA.. the DoT damage is actually good but resist reduction is necessary in legendary.. TQIT version was also very gear dependant.. this one is easier to equip and you become a knifethrower much earlier.. storm nimbus isn't even necessary early game because even undeads die from DoT in normal.. regarding energy cost, that's not much of an issue if you have energy leech.. actually i remember when i switched to ragnarok, i had to kill Hades again and i forgot to restack energy pots, so when i got to Hades i have no energy pots left.. i still killed him with no problems even with zero energy pots :) (and underlevelled because i skipped act 5 normal and epic)

2) well as i said this is my fave char.. but i haven't tried magician yet and i feel it would be fun too spreading knives with eruption in the middle.. and i feel undeads are weak against fire.. in my case, i cast squall, spread knives, then cast lightning bolt.. but the lightning bolt is just because i encountered that same question most of us encounter late in the game: "where do i put all these skill points at?"

ps: btw my mage haruspex build was partly inspired by your avenger and also as a response to those who say casters are weak in this game.. so thank you for that (i read it way way way before you post it here)
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Skyknight on 11 December 2017, 04:40:48
i wonder how this pairs with rune mastery

At the very least, it doesn't get any of its damage turned to elemental by Transmutation. Probably because Transmutation looks for basic physical damage, and the knives are piercing/bleeding instead. This means the Bolt Trap also stays untransmuted.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Giant2005 on 29 December 2017, 04:25:20
I plan on making myself a new Knife Thrower but I'm having a had time choosing a second mastery.
My last was Storm and focused more on Int and Elemental Damage over Piercing. However Warfare offers a lot too - Warfare that focuses on Strength and Physical Damage might be the better route; especially considering focusing on Strength will make the Incarnation of the Rage of Ares even more powerful (and that thing is powerful enough to deserve to be used regardless).
The way I see it, defensively they come out basically a wash: Squall + Energy shield = Dodge + Battle Standard.
Offensively seems close, but I think I'd give it to Warfare primarily based on Str's damage scaling being superior to Int's and Study Prey (via Mbuti's Advocate effecting physical but not elemental): Storm Nimbus + Squall + Summon Wisp + Int < Battle Standard + Battle Rage + Mbuti's Advocate + Str. Although I really can see that one being up for debate.

The real question is whether the Warfare version can hold up energy-wise (I think that might be why I chose Storm the first time around). Just focusing on Int alone helps a lot with the energy issues, but even more importantly; a lot of the good -Energy Cost gear is Int gear (I'm pretty sure my previous character made use of both Bai Hu's mantle and Coronal). Battle Standard comes with a built in -50% energy cost reduction but I'm not sure that is enough to make up the deficit.

So what do you think about Storm vs Warfare?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 29 December 2017, 09:59:50
the fact that you thought about using rage of ares for a knifethrower assassin is enough reason for me to believe you know what you are saying.. there are two things i intended not to mention on my guide because i want people to keep exploring rather than follow guides step by step, word for word.. 1st is life steal although i kind of gave a clue.. 2nd is rage of ares.. you are the first person to mention that.. thank you.. now how can i be of help hmm.. you forgot to mention eye of the storm and spell breaker but i guess you already know that.. for assassin, you can further boost trap damage with scroll of stalwart alliance but that might be overkill with permanent battle standard.. actually, a caster assassin isn't that mana hungry because traps and battle standard are enough to clear mobs.. knives are just to spread RR and confusion.. if you already have items ready for a caster assassin, i say go for it

it's really a toss up between the 2 but since you already played sorcerer, go for something new.. other options are earth, nature, dream, and maybe rune.. maybe spirit also

earth: you already know that
nature: strength of the pack
dream: traps, knives and distortion wave, nightmare mastermind
rune: rune weapon but you need flat elem from items
spirit: permanent unearthly power, also needs flat damage from items

but i think warfare is tankiest
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Giant2005 on 29 December 2017, 13:18:12
I think Dream is probably tankier than Warfare, but that really doesn't matter to me - Dream is my go-to for basically every build so I'd like to avoid it as often as there is a viable alternative.
You did bring up a bit of a sore point with the life steal thing though. The only way I can see to pull it off is via the Elemenal Rage Arti. That Arti means missing out on the incredible Tyrant's Fist Arti, which is even more incredible on a Warfare character rather than Storm. I find that choice to be basically impossible to make and hope to just use both by whipping out the Elemental Rage whenever I am in need of health. It really isn't all that practical, but Tyrant's Fist really is far too good to give up. The only alternative I see is using the Shadowformed Band for one of my ring slots but frankly, that thing really kind of sucks. I'd much rather be using a Mark of Ares.
I really think that might be the biggest issue with choosing Warfare over Storm - there are too many items that boost Physical Damage and that makes itemization really quite difficult.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 29 December 2017, 14:06:54
about lvl 30ish and up of my sorcerer, i was alternating between shadowformed band, aeon, and necklace of harmonia for life steal.. it's just that when i completed my elemental rage, the completion bonus i got was mana steal so it was too hard to turn down.. i got lucky there

but yeah for an assassin there would be better artifacts than elemental rage.. i think when i switch to caster mode for my assassin, i use talisman of jade emperor, hmm i think athena's battle greaves, pelaron and pendant of immortal rage.. i think also an occult ring of immortality with demon's blood.. i need that cast speed.. I'm not even sure if i get life and mana steal.. traps + battle standard + pendant of immortal rage are good enough to clear mobs.. traps cost little energy.. edit: and yeah some knife throwing

edit 2: do i use pendant of immortal rage? heh can't remember
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 31 December 2017, 20:56:19
inspired from Giant2005's icesharder/knifethrower comment, new players can actually follow this but they take a different route.. start with int instead of dex and be an icesharder first.. then after getting +4 to all skills or at least to rogue, respec to knives and mix in dex.. or get dex early epic/late normal in preparation for SB cuffs.. i still advice you wear a shield even if it's just santa's, blue item, or socketed green.

what does knives provide that ice shards doesn't? better damage, able to life/mana steal, able to spread more resistance reduction, better DA, confusion, able to equip spears or throwing weapons not necessarily to attack with it but some can give you caster necessities like all skills, %damage, recharge
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Gautrec on 23 March 2018, 14:48:20
Hi botebote, first off: thank you for this guide, since it inspired me to try out this incredibly fun character!
I do, however, have a few questions, mostly regarding itemization and its lategame viability. For example, I currently tried to use 2x Legendary Eitr (with its absurd 78 flat elemental damage) over Monkey King's Trickery in my ring slots, as, at least in epic (currently a5), it does increase my killspeed substantially. And since you seem to get away with only 12 total resist reduction in your 3x Hades video, I was wondering if, with the new options given in Ragnarok, a build focussing only on flat damage bonuses might be better than one with slightly higher resist reduction. After all, Squall still provides this effect to *some* degree.
The second and more exciting item I am currently testing (inspired by your use of the KoE with your Assassin) is the Nidbow. What it lacks in the nice resistances, projectile speed and energy cost reduction of my previously used Heka Staff, it makes up with +% total damage and and an on-attack-proc that, at least in epic, is absolutely devestating. If I observed and understood it correctly, this Bow has a 10% chance on hit to proc a "Power Strike" in the form of 4 meteors raining from the sky for each 145 cold and ca. 190 vit damage as well as some Vitality Decay in a 1m radius, all of which is converted to health. This scales nicely with an int-based sorcerer (if the damage of procs on items scales with your attributes etc. - does anybody know the answer to that question?) and with throwing knives on xmax, it is triggered multiple times in every fight for an added life leech-AoE and an additional shotgun-effect for most bosses who, due to their size, get hit by many if not all projectiles of each proc. Another downside to using this bow, though, is its absurd dexterity requirement of 525, since not everybody might be as lucky as me and get a pair of weightless Demonskin Walkers from their dwarven smith.
But I did not come here simply to show off my character (obviously  ;)). In fact, it was mostly impatience: since I will be very busy with work during the next few weeks, I won't be able to really test my setup in legendary; which lead me to create this rambly novel of a post, hoping that maybe someone reading this guide might be interested in testing the same thing.
For context: the two setups I am currently using with my sorcereress are:
One with relatively high resist reduction, mediocre flat damage and fairly bad resists (Twisted Coil of the Parasite, 1x Monkey King's, Corselet of Freyja, Demonskin Walkers & Stheno's Wisdom with + 2 to all skills)
One with no resist reduction, great flat damage and great resists (Stonebinder's with Legendary Cold Essence - hallowed completion bonus -, 2x Occult ring with Legendary Eitr, Demonskin Walkers, Tunika of the Magi & Crest of Hypnos)
With the latter proving more effective at least on epic difficulty.

PS: Ever since I found out about the interaction of the Throwing Knives with the Nidbow, I am trying to make  a Warlock with vitality damage work (Necrosis is so op!). But apart from Freyja's Coronet, there seems to simply be too little flat vit. damage on most items... why can't I put some Fury's Heart Blood on my rings?  :'(
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 24 March 2018, 00:14:06
Hello and welcome to the forum Gautrec.. thank you for liking this build and watching my videos.. i actually don't have some of the items you mentioned so i feel some pressure in giving the right answers :) .. but I'll try to be helpful anyway

1) it's actually not just 12 total resist reduction.. i also wear Polaris which gives 20% chance of 40 reduced resist.. and as you might have noticed already, 20% will proc more often with multiple fast attack like throwing knife.. and when that 40 RR procs, together with monkey kings, that flat 52 RR is huge.. as i remember, i was ok with only squall as RR up to act 2 legendary.. somewhere in act 3, i felt my damage was starting to wane and that's when i switched to monkey kings and Polaris.. my damage was good again.. take note there was still no ragnarok that time so i wasn't able to try Eitr.. but if i have to choose between monkey kings and Eitr, on legendary, I think I'd still choose monkey kings because it reduces all types of resists including poison and bleed.. that is assuming the elemental conversion doesn't affect throwing knife (I'm still not sure about the mechanics)

2) Nidbow.. Now this one i don't have yet so i had to check tq-db.. but tq-db doesn't give clear info about granted skills so I'd have to ask you some questions too:

1) i noticed power strike has 41 energy cost, are you sure it's not an active skill?

2) if it says 10% chance to proc on hit, does it have recharge? summon ancestral warriors from KoE only has 6 sec recharge so it can summon multiple warriors

3) if it procs often enough, are you killing fast enough that it's worth it sacrificing a shield? the flat vit damage from nidbow, as well as life/energy leech, reduced resist, does not apply on throwing knife

regarding your item selection, yeah i think I'll go with the 2nd one.. but on legendary, you might need more RR than just squall.. so how about: SB cuffs, crest of hypnos(so ugly), tunic of the magi, demonskin, Polaris, occult ring, monkey kings (with Eitr?), neith's will, moon disc (if you have this).. neith's will and moon disc will take care of the casting speed and %damage left by one of the occult rings.. your weightless demonskin might enable you to wear neith's will and moon disc (300+str).. i don't know where you are in epic.. the beast just after charon gives +6(?) str and dex i think.. then you might need to put some on str as you level up.. but keep your stat points unused first and use it only when you really have to.. you also have to check your resists of course

regarding throwing knife vit damage warlock, iirc undeads and constructs vit resists cannot be lowered now.. so just be sure you have other types of damage from whatever source.. double Eitr with disarm traps and sprit ward might be enough (maybe)

edit: now I'm getting things mixed up.. i forgot monkey king's is a relic hehe.. i haven't played this character in a while and my playing time in this game has greatly lessened nowadays.. so there's still one ring slot.. maybe for resist or more damage like archimedes cogwheel.. or a robust/hale ring of something to wear the moon disc? enhanced with Eitr or demons blood?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: tholuneve on 24 March 2018, 02:35:44
Hi botebote, first off: thank you for this guide, since it inspired me to try out this incredibly fun character!
I do, however, have a few questions, mostly regarding itemization and its lategame viability. For example, I currently tried to use 2x Legendary Eitr (with its absurd 78 flat elemental damage) over Monkey King's Trickery in my ring slots, as, at least in epic (currently a5), it does increase my killspeed substantially. And since you seem to get away with only 12 total resist reduction in your 3x Hades video, I was wondering if, with the new options given in Ragnarok, a build focussing only on flat damage bonuses might be better than one with slightly higher resist reduction. After all, Squall still provides this effect to *some* degree.
The second and more exciting item I am currently testing (inspired by your use of the KoE with your Assassin) is the Nidbow. What it lacks in the nice resistances, projectile speed and energy cost reduction of my previously used Heka Staff, it makes up with +% total damage and and an on-attack-proc that, at least in epic, is absolutely devestating. If I observed and understood it correctly, this Bow has a 10% chance on hit to proc a "Power Strike" in the form of 4 meteors raining from the sky for each 145 cold and ca. 190 vit damage as well as some Vitality Decay in a 1m radius, all of which is converted to health. This scales nicely with an int-based sorcerer (if the damage of procs on items scales with your attributes etc. - does anybody know the answer to that question?) and with throwing knives on xmax, it is triggered multiple times in every fight for an added life leech-AoE and an additional shotgun-effect for most bosses who, due to their size, get hit by many if not all projectiles of each proc. Another downside to using this bow, though, is its absurd dexterity requirement of 525, since not everybody might be as lucky as me and get a pair of weightless Demonskin Walkers from their dwarven smith.
But I did not come here simply to show off my character (obviously  ;)). In fact, it was mostly impatience: since I will be very busy with work during the next few weeks, I won't be able to really test my setup in legendary; which lead me to create this rambly novel of a post, hoping that maybe someone reading this guide might be interested in testing the same thing.
For context: the two setups I am currently using with my sorcereress are:
One with relatively high resist reduction, mediocre flat damage and fairly bad resists (Twisted Coil of the Parasite, 1x Monkey King's, Corselet of Freyja, Demonskin Walkers & Stheno's Wisdom with + 2 to all skills)
One with no resist reduction, great flat damage and great resists (Stonebinder's with Legendary Cold Essence - hallowed completion bonus -, 2x Occult ring with Legendary Eitr, Demonskin Walkers, Tunika of the Magi & Crest of Hypnos)
With the latter proving more effective at least on epic difficulty.

PS: Ever since I found out about the interaction of the Throwing Knives with the Nidbow, I am trying to make  a Warlock with vitality damage work (Necrosis is so op!). But apart from Freyja's Coronet, there seems to simply be too little flat vit. damage on most items... why can't I put some Fury's Heart Blood on my rings?  :'(

Nidbow...I can't believe I forgot this one. Good idea!
The major possible problems for this bow to work are whether there is a hidden cooldown on the effect and what is the proc chance. Dex req, undead and constructs...these problem can probably be solved with one gear or another, but if the cooldown and proc chance are not good enough, this whole idea will have limited potential. But if both are all good...this build is gonna be another (why another?) monster...


OK tested it on my Brigand. Confirmed the skill can be triggered by knives, confirmed 0 cooldown as stated. However the proc chance...uh...maybe not very satisfying. I'm running on 100% casting speed since it is Brigand, so the actual build should work 3X better with proc chance, but I do have a concern on it.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Gautrec on 24 March 2018, 15:01:38
@botebote77: I forgot to mention that I am wearing Polaris too, so I actually do have some resist reduction on my gear :)
Regarding the elemental conversion: I am pretty sure that only weapon/shield damage and bonus damage found directly on those items is converted - skill damage is not affected at all* (the mechanics of throwing knives are very unique though, so... who knows).
Regarding the Moon Disc: that is actually an item that I do not possess yet  :)) However, even with my Demonskin walkers, the strength requirement would still be 336*(1-0,19)=272, which is very high for this int/dex sorcerer - it exceeds the 170 str threshold of the Stonebinder's cuffs (which is where I am at currently) by more that 100 points. Furthermore, the amount of damage blocked by a low-level epic shield in the lategame seems fairly irrelevant to me, especially since, in my opinion, even with an awesome legendary shield you still need some amount of -% Shield Recovery Time to make the block mechanic useful in said lategame. In this case, to me, a shield is mostly interesting for the defensive stats commonly found on them, e.g. a low-level green shield with an Incarnation of the Aegis of Athena (tons of vit res) or of the Shade of Hector (DA). Neith's Will is a compelling choice though, too; if I managed to somehow get 300% cast speed with just one occult ring, I might even be able to equip my arctic ring of supremacy... that one is daring me to equip it for quite some time now ;D

@tholuneve: I actually tested the proc chance of the Nidbow's ability by hitting one of the practice targets at the tower of judgement 200 times with basic weapon attacks; the proc was triggered exactly 20 times (which is why I said it has a chance of about 10% proc in my previous post). When spamming my throwing knives at close distance (meaning all projectiles hit 1 target) with a cast speed of 300%, the meteors didn't stop falling and even continued raining down for a few seconds after I stopped attacking (maybe meaning that it can't proc multiple times at once and instead stacks, one instance of the proc resolving after another? It could also be geographically limited, meaning two instances of the proc can not happen in the exact same spot). Against monster groups (with xmax x4) the meteors proc about 3-4 times per pack; on 3 bosses, the number depends on how much I have to kite/ how close I can get in and shotgun them down. I actually managed to kill epic Surtr (x3) yesterday, and in his case, the procs were absolutelly insane (after the first phase he is a gigantic and static magnet for throwing knives). In fact, there were so many effects on screen that they caused a CTD on my old laptop shortly after the fight was over. This build was never something for machines that are faint of heart, though; so I guess this was to be expected ;D

Finally, during this TQ-session, I noticed one more thing that might make Power Strike an absolutely broken ability: It procs off of other spells.
Yes, you read corretly: It procs off of Squall, it procs off of Lightning Bolt, and it might even have a chance to trigger off of the lightning retaliation granted by the last mod of Storm Nimbus. They appear to all be counted as "attacks".
This implies to things: firstly that the number of procs I counted on regular monster packs might, to some degree, be caused by Squall, which could be almost as good at proccing Power Strike as the Throwing Knives are (It hits all enemies in a gigantic area again and again, as long as it is active). Secondly, even when kiting 3 bosses, Power Strike can actually trigger pretty frequently if you just regularly recast squall on them.
I must admit, I still need some time to process this information myself and it does make me wonder if there might be a build out there that procs this ability even more often (maybe utilizing ring of fire & trance of wrath? Does it trigger off of Death Chill Aura? The radius of these skills is puny, though, especially if compared to Squall & the Throwing Knives with their crazy attack speed...)

*I believe Clex explained this in his Advanced Guide for Dealing Damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo08phWvC4o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo08phWvC4o)
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Tauceti on 24 March 2018, 20:49:22
The nice thing in a forum like this is to read new ideas like these ones, and to see how people can warm up a build, impressive  :)

But... to my mind, this feature will not stay long. Many gear updates have been made in january and february (like the required lvl, see the set Shades). A substantive work has been done in order to adjust the base damage of most weapons with the upgraded level of mobs. Granted skills added in AE and Ragnarok are susceptible to be modified. As far as i can check, proc skills with high base damage have a few seconds recharge time like:

- Mystic circle : https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/shield-of-skuld (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/shield-of-skuld)
- Chain ligthning https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/mj%C3%B6lnir (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/mj%C3%B6lnir)
- Distortion wave https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/sakur-aba (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/sakur-aba)

But in the meanwhile, enjoy !
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 25 March 2018, 08:51:02
@Gautrec how about ice shards? flame surge? if power strike procs off of those that opens up lots of possible builds.. elementalist, pair earth or storm with nature, spirit, hunting, dream.. maybe any mastery except defense
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Laionidas on 25 March 2018, 10:38:27
@Gautrec how about ice shards?

I think it's heresy for a "House of Flying Daggers" build to not use Throwing Knives, and investing in both TK and Ice Shards seems a bit redundant to me.

But wow, somebody remembers this movie. The movie was pretty famous in name, but at the same time pretty pretentiously shitty. Personally, if I had to do a build inspired by this movie, I can't see it being anything other than a poison briar Illusionist (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalce491e491e491.html?mastery=Illusionist&master1=4&master2=6&sa=30&m1=32-0-0-1-0-0-0-16-0-0-1-0-8-0-6-0-0-0-1-8-0&m2=32-0-6-12-12-0-8-0-0-0-16-0-0-0-12-0-8-0-0-6-8-0). After getting the core skills, there should be enough skillpoints left with Ragnarok AE, to get Plague, Poison Gas Bomb, Regrowth, or the Nymph, to get a movie-true bitchy hippy female sidekick.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Gautrec on 25 March 2018, 13:09:47
Thank you @ Tauceti, it is indeed a lot of fun to play with :)
And for this reason, I might be a little over-enthusiastic about the build, too... it kind of feels like playing a Toxeus-Barmanu-hybrid  :D
     Regarding the possibility of it being overpowered: The actual increase in damage/killspeed still has to be tested in the endgame. Even on epic difficulty, its effectivenes was a little hard to assess, as the actual radius of the ability is, in fact, smaller than it seems to be at first glance (the meteors come down at roughly the same spot, creating a wave of dust several times the diameter of the impact zone that does not appear do deal any additional damage whatsoever). This makes Power Strike less of an AoE ability that instead only helps in defeating tougher mobs (like bosses).
     If it does turn out to be overpowered, though, I would love it if it wasn't nerfed into the same oblivion that most of the other (damage dealing) skills on items in the game seem to be in. I have tried to use and even build around several of said abilities, with the triggered ones being most promising; activated abilities on items, like the Mystic Circle on the Shield of Skuld, are usually not even worth casting, since even basic weapon attacks outclass them damage-wise (I have yet to find and test Mjölnir, though). The damage of most other triggered abilities (e.g. Wave of Flame or Flame Surge) is laughably low, with Ring of Ice being the only one that noticably harms enemies on legendary.
Maybe you can understand my excitement over Power Strike a little better now  ;)
     Anyways, as long as the Nidbow doesn't get nerfed until I can play TQ again in 2 weeks and enjoy this one build with a decent (and very cool looking) item proc, I won't complain  ;D

The corresponding items to abovementioned skills are:
Flame Surge: https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/jormungandr-guards (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/jormungandr-guards)
Wave of Flame: https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/golden-crown-of-war (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/golden-crown-of-war)
Ring of Ice: https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/pendant-of-skadi (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/pendant-of-skadi)
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Gautrec on 26 March 2018, 14:58:24
@botebote, sorry, I missed your post on the second page... It does indeed proc off of Ice Shards, and an Oracle would probably pair best with Power Strike, too, at least considering the damage types. Gameplay-wise, this might also be the truest storm-conjurer type of build I know; Squall & Lightning Bolt always seemed more like a mild breeze with some sparks mixed in. Especially due to their sound effect, the meteors of Power strike feel very "thundery"  :)
     I am worried about the damage of the ice shards themselves, though, since it is impossible to wear both Persephone's Caress and the Nidbow. Power Strike might have to carry that kind of build pretty hard and, as I mentioned before, I still have to test its effectiveness on legendary.
     Notwithstanding the above, Squall has impressed me as a way to trigger Power Strike, since it continues to deal damage over time whilst you spam whatever active skill you decide to use, thus highly increasing the rate of procs per second. In the light of this, an Elementalist sounds very appealing as well: presuming both Flame Surge and Eruption trigger the ability, you could have both Squall, Eruption and even Ring of Flame active whilst attacking with either Ice Shards or Flame Surge. Eruption deals a lot of damage by itself, too...
     Hunting is interesting pretty much just for Study Prey (and, using a bow, Wood Lore is nice to have, too); Nature, on the other hand, only has plague to potentially trigger Power Strike & reduce resistances, as well as some defensive skills (and who wants good defense when you can play a glass cannon  ;)).
     And yes, Laionidas, these would not be "House of Flying Daggers"-builds anymore - and yet, they would be so flavourful and cool...  ;D
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: tholuneve on 27 March 2018, 03:58:13
Finally, during this TQ-session, I noticed one more thing that might make Power Strike an absolutely broken ability: It procs off of other spells.
Yes, you read corretly: It procs off of Squall, it procs off of Lightning Bolt


That's interesting. One of my friend mentioned that the granted lightning skill from Mjolnir also procs with Squall. I thought he was wrong. But now this thread confirmed same situation on another item...honestly I'm confused.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 31 March 2018, 11:14:05
@Gautrec how about ice shards?

I think it's heresy for a "House of Flying Daggers" build to not use Throwing Knives, and investing in both TK and Ice Shards seems a bit redundant to me.

But wow, somebody remembers this movie. The movie was pretty famous in name, but at the same time pretty pretentiously shitty. Personally, if I had to do a build inspired by this movie, I can't see it being anything other than a poison briar Illusionist (https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalce491e491e491.html?mastery=Illusionist&master1=4&master2=6&sa=30&m1=32-0-0-1-0-0-0-16-0-0-1-0-8-0-6-0-0-0-1-8-0&m2=32-0-6-12-12-0-8-0-0-0-16-0-0-0-12-0-8-0-0-6-8-0). After getting the core skills, there should be enough skillpoints left with Ragnarok AE, to get Plague, Poison Gas Bomb, Regrowth, or the Nymph, to get a movie-true bitchy hippy female sidekick.
This build obviously wasn't inspired by the movie but i liked the title enough to use it

I actually liked the film on my first watch but you called it "pretentiously shitty" so i had to watch it again.. and you know what? you're right it wasn't that good.. the fight scenes were slow, the plot had too many twists for a 2hr film, the theme was a little corny.. i wouldn't call it shitty though, the nature backgrounds were just too good

There's no point in changing titles much less the build now but i get the briar ward throwing knife build.. this would've made a good pic

(https://titanquestfans.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWCtMFdx.jpg&hash=06b44979bbf73bb65103d753f9c42f5427e694af) (https://imgur.com/WCtMFdx)
the dogs just think of them as the horses
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Tauceti on 31 March 2018, 13:42:07
[...] One of my friend mentioned that the granted lightning skill from Mjolnir also procs with Squall. I thought he was wrong. But now this thread confirmed same situation on another item...honestly I'm confused.
However there is a great difference between Mjolnir and Nidbow: a 4s recharge time for Mjolnir so that you can't abuse the game. I can bet a bitcoin, euh ... not a bitcoin  ;D, a cup of coffee that Nidbow will be updated with a non-zero recharge time in the coming months, if not in the coming weeks. Btw I find funny the fact that granted skills proc also from spells, i hope that this feature will remain.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Laionidas on 31 March 2018, 16:11:24
The nature backgrounds were just too good

the dogs just think of them as the horses

True, the backgrounds wére good, but even in that respect it was a little too obvious to me that they were just trying to ride on the success of stylish epics like Crouching Tiger and Hero, without really putting in any twist of their own.

I do feel kinda inspired now to make a build titled "The Dogs are Horses" :)
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: maxwolfie on 02 May 2018, 00:15:31
Silly question, but how do you reduce/remove the cooldown on Throwing Knife? The wiki mentions that the cooldown is 6 seconds.

EDIT: According to the calculator on KP, it looks like the cooldown on Throwing Knife reduces as points are invested in it. At level 12 it’s cooldown is 1.6s, I assume at level 16 it’s cooldown is reduced to nothing. Is that correct?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 02 May 2018, 03:34:21
yes.. the description on titanquest.wikia is outdated.. it is from TQIT
this is how a no cooldown throwing knife looks like

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=213.msg1708#msg1708

the shampoo one.. the most fun character I've played actually.. whenever i played it online, the kill ratio was always tilted in my favor :)
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: maxwolfie on 02 May 2018, 11:59:57
Thank you.

One more question - I am playing on Xbox and it seems that I cannot hold down the attack button to repeatedly cast Throwing Knife. It seems that I need to press the attack button for each attack/cast.

Do you recall having to do this on PC with your RMB?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Gautrec on 02 May 2018, 14:36:16
@maxwolfie: on PC, you can indeed just hold down the RMB to continuously cast Throwing Knives. Is there an equivalent for the shift key on your controller? Maybe that would work (when you hold both it and the LMB down on PC, it allows you to keep attacking even with standard LMB skills like Onslaught or Marksmanship).

On an entirely different note, I finally managed to finish the game with my Nidbow knife thrower :) The gameplay felt pretty smooth, even though I did die more often than might have been necessary - the strong reliance on CC for survivability doesn't leave much room for mistakes. Then again, my build is also even more of a glass cannon than that of botebote possibly because I couldn't wear a shield and ran with 2x Eitr in my ring slots (which kept performing well, even in comparison to Monkey King's Trickery).

The damage of the Nidbow's ability got a little worse in the later parts of legendary but was still noticable enough for me to keep using it (and I might still have a bias towards it because of its animation, too ;D)

I was thinking of recording a quick gameplay video of my build as well, but I'm not sure when I might actually get around to doing that...
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 02 May 2018, 19:59:15
well, i prefer rapid clicking than holding down RMB anyway.. easier to run if you need to escape suddenly

I was thinking of recording a quick gameplay video of my build as well, but I'm not sure when I might actually get around to doing that...
i would like to see that.. i don't have nidbow yet and I'm quite curious to see that (power strike?) proc.. i will also add that Eitr charm on my guide under "update for ragnarok" :)
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Gautrec on 03 May 2018, 11:08:45
well, i prefer rapid clicking than holding down RMB anyway.. easier to run if you need to escape suddenly
True, the most annoying things about this build for me personally are probably those few miliseconds the character needs to start moving again after finishing the animations of Throwing Knives cast by holding down the RMB :D Unfortunately, I have issues with joint pain, especially in my fingers, and am therefore kind of forced into clicking as little as possible :/
I suspect that the aforementioned delay is also made worse by the fact that my movement speed is horrendously low (I only get about 20% from my Demonskin Walkers). Most of the time, this is just a quality-of-life kind of problem; however, kiting is made rather difficult due to these issues. But who needs a low death count - its just a silly little number, right? :P
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: maxwolfie on 08 May 2018, 06:46:00
Just to confirm: enough Dex to wear SB cuffs, everything else into Int?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 08 May 2018, 08:55:39
assuming you don't rely on stacking requirement reduction, that would be fine yes.. a little higher would be fine too.. if you want to put some in health, that would be ok too
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: maxwolfie on 08 May 2018, 11:05:02
Thank you. I am still not sure whether I should be pumping Dex to scale bleed and pierce damage on Throwing Knife, if I should be pumping Int which I am assuming will scale the elemental damage component added to Throwing Knife (for example the flat cold or lightning damage added by Storm Nimbus).
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 08 May 2018, 12:41:34
well you see... one of the strengths of this build is dealing different types of damage.. all those damage types will be boosted by %total damage (which boosts every type of damage), and then further boosted by reduced resistances (which reduces every type of resist).. dealing different types of damage means you won't have a problem dealing damage against anything.. the only problem this has is Toxeus.. but you shouldn't have a problem with Toxeus if you do the chicken way.. the chicken way i will show in one of my videos in a few days time (i have already recorded the videos, i will just compile them in the coming days)

edit: chicken way (https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=213.msg4416#msg4416)

also, you might notice I'm wearing a shield.. shield block chance is affected by dex at least according to this guide

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-shield-block-formula-guide-by-xaece/

so dex is offense and defense for this build.. not that it's enough to keep you alive but at least it helps some with your squishiness.. survivability of this build really comes from life steal, CC, and killing enemies before they kill you.. and that's part of the fun of being a glass canon :)

in my experience, you will see the strength of dex mostly normal and epic.. sometime in act 3 legendary, you will start to feel squishy.. that's when you will want to spam knives.. but spamming is only good if you deal instant damage (not DoT).. that's when int becomes more important

tldr: sink your points on dex and int
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Gautrec on 09 May 2018, 13:47:14
shield block chance is affected by dex at least according to this guide

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titan-quest-shield-block-formula-guide-by-xaece/
Wow, thanks for the info, I did not know that. Maybe I do have to review my opinion on shields for this build...

tldr: sink your points on dex and int
If you use Eitr and/or Cold Essence/Primal Magma relics, int becomes much more relevant for your damage. However, the defensive boost you get from dex remains very compelling :)
     Which reminds me: Legendary Cold Essence & Primal Magma are, next to Eitr, another great addition from Ragnarok, at least for this build. They pair very nicely with the Stonebinders Cuffs, which are a BiS green armpiece and therefore always offer a "free" slot for those relics (that is, if you can afford to use it over a more defensive charm).
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 10 May 2018, 02:40:58
If you use Eitr and/or Cold Essence/Primal Magma relics,
my build is like the pre-ragnarok version.. ragnarok offers more item optimization.. i can see myself leaning towards Neiths Will instead of Phorkos Trident (maybe).. especially if i also get lucky with legendary craftsmanship, getting weightless prefix.. but this character is retired now :(
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: wolpak on 28 September 2018, 21:58:56
If you are spamming throwing knives, does your weapon matter at all since throwing knife gets nothing from it?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 29 September 2018, 00:11:31
the base weapon damage does not matter however saying that the weapon does not matter at all is inaccurate.. when playing mages/casters, there is no definitive "damage should come from weapon, resists from shields and jewelries" that kind of thing.. the thinking when gearing mages should be "anything can come from anything" i chose phorkos trident for all skills and resists

also, proc skills from weapons trigger with throwing knife. like the Gautrec trick nidbow. study prey from mbuti's advocate also triggers.. and the wildfire/sunlight thingy from a certain throwing weapon.. but it's only skills.. proc chance like stun or slow does not trigger
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: wolpak on 29 September 2018, 01:09:52
I hear you, but it goes a bit further than that.  Many attributes of weapons can still help other mage builds like %fire or whatever.  A weapon has almost nothing to benefit the build besides some unique abilities.  I have the throwing dagger that reduces mana cost which is certainly helpful.  But really, that is all it does.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 29 September 2018, 01:43:09
but you are aware that this does not lack in kill speed right? if anything what this lacks is tankiness.. this is a glass cannon
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 29 September 2018, 08:50:19
sorry but i just had to ask if only to satisfy my curiosity.. what is your build? is it a knifethrower too? and that's really all your getting from your weapon? only energy cost? no cast speed, all skills, resists, recharge, %damage, anything? what weapon is that? i only know of 2 weapons that has energy cost reduction: staff of the (cosmos? was it?) and lykaion malleus but they give way more than energy cost. maybe it's a ragnarok item I'm not aware of? and you don't have anything better?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: wolpak on 29 September 2018, 14:31:19
Don't apologize, I am really just a few levels in on a heroic character and he is certainly cleaning house.

I have an illusionist with Throwing Knives, Traps and Heart of the Oak, which, with my other cost reduction gear, allows me to spam knives for free.  Also envenom and plague (though I haven't need to plague yet).  Saving wolves for Epic.

My questioning is due to wondering how Knives scale.  If I am not pumping int for elemental damage, am I nerfing the build?  What role can/do weapons play and how do I best leech life.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 30 September 2018, 06:42:19
ahhh illusionist.. I'm not really a pet guy but i like illusionist.. one of my favorites.. my illusionist is pets + traps + knives

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=19.0

i did not get int because it's a petmaster/knifethrower.. i don't have energy cost reduction but i steal mana with i think spectral matter.. but nature has tranquility of water.. maybe i should revisit my illusionist and see if i can max tranquility of water and ditch spectral matter

but there is a build that also invests on int and it's easier to gear.. it's closer to a pure petmaster.. clex made a nice guide about it

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bYg9MGcfBGI

but the int investment is just to meet gear requirements and not about dealing damage.. maybe eitr? the elemental damage applies to knives.. but you probably would need demon's blood for vit res
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: icefreeze on 30 September 2018, 13:57:06
ahhh illusionist.. I'm not really a pet guy but i like illusionist.. one of my favorites.. my illusionist is pets + traps + knives

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=19.0

i did not get int because it's a petmaster/knifethrower.. i don't have energy cost reduction but i steal mana with i think spectral matter.. but nature has tranquility of water.. maybe i should revisit my illusionist and see if i can max tranquility of water and ditch spectral matter

but there is a build that also invests on int and it's easier to gear.. it's closer to a pure petmaster.. clex made a nice guide about it

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bYg9MGcfBGI

but the int investment is just to meet gear requirements and not about dealing damage.. maybe eitr? the elemental damage applies to knives.. but you probably would need demon's blood for vit res

I usually using Mjohnir with Throwing Knife to get a chance to cast Chain Lightning to deal dmg and get Stun effect.
=> Int can make your dmg output boost alot than you think.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 30 September 2018, 16:01:47
yeah I've been thinking for quite a while now that if I'd play this after ragnarok i probably would've gotten int too.. seeing items like eitr, mjolnir, rings of the rhine, a shield that doesn't block too much but gives huge DA, recharge and requirement reduction with only 200+ str requirement.. part of my theorycraft was strength of the pack + rage of ares + knives.. and i ended up not using it because 1000 DA suddenly got useless against act 5 mobs.. so i needed life steal instead so i switched to phobos + deimos.. if i had int too, even if can't get high DA, elemental rage would've been a nice artifact.. dem ragnarok changed a lot of things
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: wolpak on 12 October 2018, 21:01:25
So, I decided to try the Brigand version of this build.  Figured that all the +Pierce would benefit my flying daggers and my traps.  And it does.  I have been using a Blue Dragon Scale as it reduces cost, gives energy and other benefits.  In Epic, unbuffed my daggers do a flat 222 damage (with other equip and dex bonuses).  In fact, all weapons do 222 flat damage (which is kinda nice that their are no spikes from randomness...until I came across the Dagger of Basbona.  For some reason, I wanted to see if the 20% chance of 93% bonus damage would proc (as apparently weapon procs do work).  And it does...BUT, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the #34% pierce damage ALSO stacks with my pierce (since the daggers do all pierce).

Every weapon I tested with does 222 damage.  This weapon does, 260 and procs at 371.  Good to know that weapon's %pierce also stacks.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Bobinho11 on 02 September 2020, 21:51:50
(https://titanquestfans.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5GJWfu5.jpg&hash=2442284546aa763b0de286cd9ce389d518c85482) (https://imgur.com/5GJWfu5)

This is a guide for the TQAE version of the bladeflinger build.

I think most pros already know of this but i just haven't found a guide for the AE version yet so i decided to just make 1 (this is different from the TQIT version).

This is a guide for those who have reached at least epic difficulty. Beginners can also do this but it'll take much longer for your character to take shape.

Ok let's start. A knifethrower is a rogue who uses throwing knives as main attack. You can have earth or storm as your 2nd mastery for some elemental damage (your a caster anyway). Many players don't know it yet but rogue is actually a very good caster. For my char i chose storm but I'm sure you can go with earth as well

Pros: Kills really fast and every attack is AOE/CC

Cons: energy probs and you're a glass cannon so don't get too close to mobs

Your very first target is to reach lvl 25 with whatever you have by just pumping dex (no strength). That's doable, right? you can add int so your staff (if you decide to go with staff) can do more damage but what you really need to pump is dex. You need 297 dex by lvl 25. You'll need to pre-farm SB cuffs (epic version) and an amulet that gives +2 to rogue (merchants sell it). Both items have a char lvl requirement of 25.. you need 297 dex to wear epic SB cuffs.

By lvl 25, your char should look like this:

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc9128.html?mastery=Sorcerer&master1=6&master2=8&sa=0&m1=32-0-0-1-12-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-1-1-0-0-6-0&m2=4-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

That's just lvl 21 but you get the idea. You should max throwing knives and flurry of knives as early as possible.

When you get to lvl 25, the fun finally starts. You'll be a true knifethrower. Your throwing knives will have zero recharge. Set it as your RMB and you can just spam it. You'll need lots of energy pots but that's not really a problem. You can enhance your amulet with spectral matter to help a little bit with your energy probs. By epic, most monsters have energy so you can leech energy and you don't have to carry much energy pots. You'll eventually want to max mandrake and nightshade so your attack itself is a CC. Storm nimbus tree or earth enchantment tree (whichever 2nd mastery you want) for some elemental damage. After pumping dex, you need to pump int. Storm Nimbus only gives puny elemental damage.. for one knife projectile that is. We're talking lots and lots of projectiles here. Trust me, it's worth it for this build. Endgame your char should look like this:

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc9128.html?mastery=Sorcerer&master1=6&master2=8&sa=0&m1=32-0-0-12-12-1-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-8-8-0-0-6-0-0&m2=32-0-10-1-0-8-1-0-12-0-0-0-6-12-0-0-1-1-0-8-0-0

or

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc85ef.html?mastery=Magician&master1=6&master2=1&sa=0&m1=32-0-0-12-12-1-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-8-8-0-0-6-0-0-0&m2=32-12-0-8-1-0-0-1-0-0-10-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-0-12-0-0

You'll eventually want to replace your epic SB cuffs with the legendary version (385 dex). You need int and dex for damage of course. Disarm traps is a good 1 point wonder skill to have here. Traps and constructs are immune to bleed and poison. Disarm traps take care of that and with your gear it becomes lvl 5. Definitely a good 1 point wonder

There you have it. Very easy to make and very easy to farm gear. You'll be surprised that it actually kills fast

notes: you need 120 str to wear epic SB cuffs and 144 for legendary.. just wear items that give some + to str.. casting speed from items is also good for this build.. you can also add a few points to strength to open more options for your other items but in my case i never needed to.. rogue mastery gives +56 to str anyways so that's 106 str with no items.. resistance reduction not from a weapon (like Polaris or monkey kings trickery) is gold for this build (actually it's a must in legendary).. also, see that attack damage converted to health from elemental rage? that would take you a long way.. but it must not be from a weapon


Now this is only for the mage version. I have also tried this with a knifethrower assassin and illusionist. Though for those builds, throwing knife is only used to reduce resistances and to proc granted skills. See here (http://titanquestfans.byethost11.com/smf/index.php?topic=19.0) for a knifethrower Illusionist. For a knifethrower assassin, you have to stack CDR so you'll be able to spam battle standard. Traps deal really good damage with battle standard. You also have to wear Key of Elysium (2 KOEs if you have) to summon ancestral warriors. It procs with knives and the recharge is only 6 seconds so you can summon multiple warriors. Now wear a mbutis advocate on secondary to proc study prey (it also procs with knives). It's like an assassin version of the petmaster champion. It's more gear intensive and harder to make but it's also more powerful imo

update for ragnarok:

Dex requirement for epic SB cuffs has been raised to 307 and 425 for legendary version. Str requirement likewise has been raised to 132 for epic and 170 for legendary. Doesn’t really mean much because lvl requirement is still the same. Just have to focus on dex and str more. Ragnarok also have Eitr charms which gives flat elemental damage and it is confirmed by at least 1 user that 2x Eitr on rings is worth for this build (credit to Gautrec).

This is actually playable self-found even for new players but a different route is needed. New players start with int instead of dex and become an ice-sharder. Of course storm would be the first mastery to take. When you finally have +4 to all skills or at least to rogue, start putting points in dex and eventually respec to throwing knives. You can also put some points in dex earlier like late normal or early epic for preparation for epic SB cuffs.

What does throwing knives offer that ice shards doesn’t? Better damage, confusion, higher DA because of dex, ability to life/mana steal, and access to spear or throwing weapons again because of dex

video link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV3mvWKepo

Not sure how throwing knives have zero recharge...did you mean with gear? Although you mentioned this build is also good for self-funded chars...thanks!
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 02 September 2020, 23:04:07
Not sure how throwing knives have zero recharge...did you mean with gear? Although you mentioned this build is also good for self-funded chars...thanks!
yes. they changed TK quite a bit in AE. chance to pass through has been reduced to 10% chance but now you don't need CDR. you only need +4 and CD will be zero. if you have ragnarok, scironian helm and armor (+1 to rogue each) easy to farm from Sciron and the other bandits there. epic version +2. hallowed helm can be bought from merchants. also +1 to rogue amulet. then there is always SB cuffs.
be sure to equip occult ring

edit: start with squall when playing SSF. golden fleece relic
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Bobinho11 on 02 September 2020, 23:12:03
Thanks! Gathering the courage to buy ragnarok and atlantis because i am playing on console...i worry it will be buggy + i am spoiled from all the years of using the defiler and tq vault :/ cant really get my collector addiction on if there is a limited amount of characters you can create (for muling gear)

Edit: was thinking of going with earth actually
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: icefreeze on 03 September 2020, 05:17:47
Not sure how throwing knives have zero recharge...did you mean with gear? Although you mentioned this build is also good for self-funded chars...thanks!
yes. they changed TK quite a bit in AE. chance to pass through has been reduced to 10% chance but now you don't need CDR. you only need +4 and CD will be zero. if you have ragnarok, scironian helm and armor (+1 to rogue each) easy to farm from Sciron and the other bandits there. epic version +2. hallowed helm can be bought from merchants. also +1 to rogue amulet. then there is always SB cuffs.
be sure to equip occult ring

edit: start with squall when playing SSF. golden fleece relic
You can't get Act5 + Atlantis's M.I helm armor with "Hallowed" prefix. All M.I armor parts in Act5+Atlantis using affixes of torso armor.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 03 September 2020, 05:32:54
there's a dot. it's 2 different sentences. it just means either scironian helm or hallowed helm, whichever is found first

edit: also, stop trying to find faults in every person's posts. it's not very nice
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: icefreeze on 03 September 2020, 05:52:23
OK!
So i will never comment anything in your thread from now  O0
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Bobinho11 on 03 September 2020, 10:16:56
But if you can  easily spam TK with +4 to skills, you could use any other mastery as a support mastery right? Not just storm or earth? For example something to support health, str, dex

And noob question: what does SFF mean?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 03 September 2020, 10:53:23
yes but the thing is, TK carries flat damages that are meant to be added to weapons. that's why i chose storm because storm nimbus damage is added to TK.
but to answer your question, yes. i had an old warfare + rogue pre-ragnarok character that uses TK + battle standard. the flat physical damage from battle standard is added to TK. but that is even more gear dependent because it also needs high CDR to cast battle standard immediately after the duration ends

btw, it's the same for traps. you only need +4 then it will have zero CD. only, it will not carry damages that are added to weapons. but it carries damages that are added to pets. basically, traps are pets in AE.

SSF means Solo Self Found
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Bobinho11 on 03 September 2020, 10:59:45
I see, thanks for clearing that up!

I am thinking i will try Earth then, because Storm is my least favorite mastery...

I DO have a lvl 73 bone charmer but i dont have the time or energy to farm for stuff, especially.on console where you cannot affect drop rate.
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Bobinho11 on 04 September 2020, 23:40:28
Just found a really nice green amulet on epic that gives +2 to rogue and 411 health, but lvl requirement is 34 :/ why so high?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 05 September 2020, 05:40:18
Just found a really nice green amulet on epic that gives +2 to rogue and 411 health, but lvl requirement is 34 :/ why so high?
probably "of permanence" suffix
you can check tq-db for affixes too
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Bobinho11 on 11 September 2020, 23:46:32
Just found a really nice green amulet on epic that gives +2 to rogue and 411 health, but lvl requirement is 34 :/ why so high?
probably "of permanence" suffix
you can check tq-db for affixes too

Quick question about your guide...i just hit lvl 25 and it has become super fun with +4. My dex is 320. Should i pump everything into int now or keep pushing dex until i have enough for legendary sb cuffs?
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: botebote77 on 12 September 2020, 00:10:36
Just found a really nice green amulet on epic that gives +2 to rogue and 411 health, but lvl requirement is 34 :/ why so high?
probably "of permanence" suffix
you can check tq-db for affixes too

Quick question about your guide...i just hit lvl 25 and it has become super fun with +4. My dex is 320. Should i pump everything into int now or keep pushing dex until i have enough for legendary sb cuffs?
my practice, which some people might not like, is just save your stat points. i mean your damage is fine. your DA is likely fine. so you don't need to spend them now. 1 drop of rings of the rhine could change things. or when you get to epic, if phorkos trident drops, that needs a lot of dex which you might not have enough if you spend everything on int now
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: Bobinho11 on 12 September 2020, 00:21:02
Thanks! Most of my gear is str and melee oriented though..so i am a bit confused if i should go with a staff or not...but i stopped using my normal attack now since i hit lvl 25 anyway......
Title: Re: House of Flying Daggers Build
Post by: kalimon on 16 September 2022, 17:38:14
Hi bote, i had a quick question that I haven’t been able to find an answer for yet.

Does throwing knife transmit additional bleed damage if the held weapon is slotted with Saber Claw/Yen-Lo-Wang? Trying to max out bleed damage on my Warlock atm but not sure if it’s worth double stacking or going for another relic
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