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Titan Quest - Anniversary Edition => Anniversary Edition - General discussion => Topic started by: botebote77 on 07 June 2018, 15:36:25

Title: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 07 June 2018, 15:36:25: lolz for fun i created a cheat test character elementalist focusing on weapon damage converted to elemental.. the items:

blessing of the moirae - 33%
golden agris helmet - 50%
legendary eitr - 20%

for some reason the converted to elemental is not shown on tq-db but in game, it is listed

33 + 50 + 20 = 103% converted to elemental (assuming the stacking is additive) so that should stack to 100% meaning full attack of throwing weapon is converted to elemental

that is then enhanced by storm nimbus, earth enchantment, eye of the storm, volatility, squall and my occult rings.. i even wore twisted coil of the parasite and moon disc, then thoth's glory for the 20% reduced requirements so i can spend less on str and dex

the damage is somewhat respectable in legendary act 4 but it's not for me because it's only single target attack and the range is very short lolz.. in xmax x3 i don't clear mobs fast enough to support core dweller and my toon is still very glassy

still it could be fun if someone makes a surprisingly good "converted to elemental" build without rune :D .. maybe earth and storm is not the right combination.. I've thought about brigand but i just don't see how it could be better than a normally built brigand.. maybe illusionist or something with dream? :) I've been theorycrafting for an int based conqueror but there's no % elem damage and the shield procs would be wasted because it don't work with throwing

edit: for the record, i don't cheat on my characters :) .. this is just for fun and i don't plan to make a new character just for that because the level req of blessing of the moirae is lvl 59
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: Tauceti on 07 June 2018, 20:57:03: A surprising build without rune.
what about Druid ? It could be funny ;)

P.S. elemental conversion works as damage absorption, that is stacking is multiplicative.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: tholuneve on 08 June 2018, 03:42:14: P.S. elemental conversion works as damage absorption, that is stacking is multiplicative.
Last time I checked (1.53), it is additive. But since you said that, I will check again with the latest version. It's important to confirm the correct method to calculate.

And as for the topic itself, I would suggest Earth/Storm + Warfare/Defense/Hunting/Dream. Each one of the combination should work and Storm are automatically superior to Earth in terms of damage since converted damage contains only 1/3 of fire damage.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 08 June 2018, 04:51:55: would appreciate your tests tholuneve

i thought about something but preferably i have one more source of converted to elemental from a non-weapon or shield

i remember i just found staff of the covenant (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/staff-of-the-covenant) just a few days ago.. it's a staff that deals physical damage but requires very high int.. now i remember in the early days of ragnarok i found carnyx staff (https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/carnyx-staff).. it's also a staff that deals physical and it has a hidden attribute: it has 100% chance to pass through enemies.. if staff of the covenant also have that hidden attribute, this should go well with ternion ;D

i just need one more source of converted to elemental.. anybody has anything in mind? i hope i can find one in my vault.. triple eitr would kill my resists so it's out
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: Tauceti on 08 June 2018, 07:42:50: Quote from: tholuneve on 08 June 2018, 03:42:14
Last time I checked (1.53), it is additive. But since you said that, I will check again with the latest version. It's important to confirm the correct method to calculate.
I am no more on TQ now, i've read tests on elemental conversion somewhere and that was convincing, so i kept the information in mind. But where was that.. uhuuh, couldn't say.
Make your own tests ;D
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 08 June 2018, 08:06:39: if i would also assume it's multiplicative because the closest thing to elemental conversion is pierce conversion, which in TQ is pierce ratio.. pierce ratio is multiplicative

GD seems to have many damage conversions, maybe some of the GD guys know.. I'm a novice in GD

everytime i distance myself from TQ it pulls me back lolz.. but my playing time is much less now.. Tauceti, i was rooting for your ternion HC challenge.. when i read it died i was like ooowwwwww damn

edit: a good way to test this is stacking 100% converted to elemental through items.. then what some people do that makes the game treat each attack as crit. if there's no damage numbers then that's probably additive because elem damage don't crit.. i don't know how to do that (hack?) treat each attack as crit.. i have the items but does someone know how to do that?
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: tholuneve on 08 June 2018, 11:10:24: Quote from: botebote77 on 08 June 2018, 08:06:39
if i would also assume it's multiplicative because the closest thing to elemental conversion is pierce conversion, which in TQ is pierce ratio.. pierce ratio is multiplicative

GD seems to have many damage conversions, maybe some of the GD guys know.. I'm a novice in GD

everytime i distance myself from TQ it pulls me back lolz.. but my playing time is much less now.. Tauceti, i was rooting for your ternion HC challenge.. when i read it died i was like ooowwwwww damn

edit: a good way to test this is stacking 100% converted to elemental through items.. then what some people do that makes the game treat each attack as crit. if there's no damage numbers then that's probably additive because elem damage don't crit.. i don't know how to do that (hack?) treat each attack as crit.. i have the items but does someone know how to do that?
Yeah that's what I plan to do. Since we only need to test if the physical damage still exists, so just attack some dummies, scarecrow, bell or something else. If crits still exist, then it's multiplicative, otherwise it's additive.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 08 June 2018, 23:47:21: update on this: (but would still wait for your tests tholuneve)

it seems to be additive (my assumption was incorrect :) )

i didn't know how to make that hack to make the game treat each damage as crit.. but i found Hofud in my vault.. it's a sword that converts 50% of weapon damage to elemental.. it's a sword so it shows my crit attacks

my test was Hofud (50% converted) first
i hit the dummies in sparta and there were still damage numbers,
next i equipped golden agris helmet (50%) still with Hofud
there were no damage numbers no matter how many times i attack
so that should mean there was no physical damage left, all damage converted to elemental

as for the topic: sage worked well.. it's a true glass cannon.. i still deal some AoE from marksmanship and volley.. the kill speed was good with squall and flush out.. but it takes practice and some getting used to because there are many active skills to cast: monster lure, squall and study prey are constants, then for bosses, spell breaker.. not to mention the continuous left clicking of marksmanship.. monster lure is a must because blessing of the moirae has short range it's hard to kite.. the damage was pretty good legendary Hades went down quickly. items were the same from my 1st post

i really thought templar would perform well but it's still too glassy.. by concentrating on int too much, i can't get enough DA.. if i use a defensive shield instead of moon disc, DPS becomes lower.. maybe i need better items but eh it's too gear dependant as it is already

P.S: so there's a real agris helmet found in a cave in France.. i learned something new today :)
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 09 June 2018, 02:36:45: honestly though ice shard is still stronger.. it's just too mana hungry but it's still better.. in x3, the short range of throwing weapon is really a handicap.. against mobs it's ok because of monster lure but against 3 Hades, it's too difficult to kite.. ice shard is still better
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: Hector on 09 June 2018, 20:26:43: I have a question about damage conversion though its not completely related to the topic.. Does "Transmutation" only convert the base damage of a weapon like its description suggests, or does it convert any flat physical damage bonuses on a character as well?
I have an armor with the "Mountaineer" prefix and I wonder if that "15 damage" bonus in it would also be converted to elemental by transmutation..
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 09 June 2018, 21:09:35: clex plays made good tests of this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo08phWvC4o&t=1514s

jump to 14:00 for damage conversion mechanics

tldr: if it says damage bonus, it gets added to the weapon and is therefore converted.. if it only says damage, it's a no

made more tests on Hofud: if it's not obvious already, 2 Hofud will result in 100% damage conversion.. no need for golden agris

tried more tests with templar, DA can be solved with maxed battle awareness and premonition.. the problem is kill speed.. very low OA results in misses.. also, it doesn't crit

i want it dream because psionic touch and phantom strike boosts total damage.. so I'm gonna have to test harbinger next with archmages clasp for permanent battle standard.. a harbinger that uses psionic touch instead of onslaught yeeesh

edit: i checked mountaineer's on tq-db.. it says 15 physical damage, so that would be a no.. from the few things I've tested, it doesn't convert the 10 damage from dual wield skill, the physical damage from battle standard, and the added physical damage from shield attacks.. the damage from the shield itself is converted i think
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: Hector on 11 June 2018, 00:00:05: Wow, so much to learn from this guy's channel.. its bad news but still good to know rather than blindly investing on flat damage I guess..
Thanks mate.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 10 July 2018, 04:34:00: I'm going for this with int+dex archer dreamkiller because of this (https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=529.msg5520#msg5520)

but an actual character this time.. no more tests.. i decided to just go for it
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: Vio on 10 July 2018, 10:38:44: Quote from: botebote77 on 08 June 2018, 23:47:21
there's a real agris helmet found in a cave in France.. i learned something new today :)

In fact many of the items are based on real ones. If you look for celtic / norse archeology or terms like Hochdorf, Hallstatt, La Tène, Gundestrupp or of course Heuneburg and Glauberg you may recognize a few more.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 11 July 2018, 14:24:07: (warning: wall of text)

alright so i started this as an accomplished hero character.. stat distribution here is tricky.. this is not for people who strictly follow ratio stat distribution.. ratio stat distribution makes things simple but when trying out new builds that requires micro-management, it won't get you anywhere.. you can't be a robot just following orders and being very systematic but not knowing when to adjust.. you have to create your own guideline.

I tried balancing dex and int first but even lvl 40 is not enough to get me enough stat points to wear good gear.. so i pressed undo and decided to just load up on dex to wear a good bow (teucers).. i failed to realize that was a mistake.. by investing heavily on dex (high 300+), i could only get my int to low 200+.. as a result, i couldn't wear a good int based armor so i ended up with store bought yellow chest armor and greaves.. I still continued and it resulted in 4 deaths before i even got to the 3rd portal lolz.. 3 of those were from primrose passage.. this is xmax x3 btw as that is my default mode.. i could've worn santas or the like but decided to just reroll another accomplished hero character.. it's still inferior compared to an int build anyway especially early game.. couldn't even deal a good single target damage even though i was using teucers on normal.

So i started over again with an int build distortion wave caster wielding a staff (Delysid) but not really overcommitting to int.. i wore Thoth's Mark and Eye of Horus so i could get enough int to wear caster gear.. i had to save some stat points reserved for dex so i could equip a bow and respec my skills later on.. by level 42, i was able to equip Meerkwood bow.. that meant replacing my rings with greens so i could go for 3 Eitrs (60% converted to elemental + some flat elemental damage).. just normal but i will replace it with epic version once i get to lvl 45.. i could've went full caster until lvl 51 (golden agris) but that defeats the purpose of a bow elemental build.

also, one thing i didn't see while theorycrafting was i needed a good cast speed too for traps and distort reality.. traps are much better with good cast speed but it's more important for distort reality.. as squishy as this build is, distort reality is an important part of this build especially that this is an int build.. a slight cast delay could result in a death.. so i went with 1 Occult ring of grace, 1 Plato's ring of grace and a divine amulet all socketed with Eitrs.. The 2 rings are both of grace so i could get enough dex for Meerkwood bow.. I might replace my Plato's with Socrate's and then wraithlord's later on.. As for Occult, i think that will stick for a long time maybe even endgame.

I usually don't want to equip purples while still on normal but i see this as an exception.. I had to dig deep on my vault for items (majority of those i can't equip because of lvl requirement).. I didn't have enough Eitrs so I had to farm for many many Eitrs first using one of my other characters (that was a pain).. the fact that the standard completion bonus is slower attack for 5 seconds made it all the more painful.. i couldn't even get 1 with attack speed.. bah if I'm going to replace it by lvl 45, it's not worth farming for more

it's a male character with the name Sommelier.. lelz
(https://titanquestfans.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FGMa1DHO.jpg&hash=e7e066187bfce686a4ffcbb55fa825608c5c6904)
going smoother now and still no deaths so far yaay.. 3 goldtooth and primrose passage were noticeably easier this time

btw, the 4th hit of psionic touch is AoE but the real AoE of this build comes from traps

our internet service provider is shitty right now.. lots of times we don't have internet
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 06 August 2018, 09:34:03: my dreamkiller is now poison elemental archer.. i want to at least benefit from my dex investment (to equip bow) so i took the poison skills as well

it's still somewhere early act 4 epic (i think).. lolz haven't played in a few days.. I'm being hit again with 2 reasons i dislike from weapon users:

1) it's only as good as the weapon I'm using.. I've searched my TQvault for bramblewoods and the best i have is dire bramblewood (flat vit damage).. it'll probably have to do.. i will only use it when i get to legendary.. right now I'm just using meerkwood bow

2) i have to actually click on the target.. I'm spoiled with my casters just having to click wherever my mouse ends up in

I'm still only in epic but it feels like i still deal good damage even if i don't reduce resists.. it seems like monster types that have high resistance against one type of elemental damage are weak against another type of elemental damage.. no way of proving but i think:

1) fire elementals (fire sprites and some act 5 monsters are resistant to fire but weak against cold

2) frost elementals are resistant to cold but weak against lightning and probably fire.. sea creatures like turtles are weak against lightning

3) plants seem to have some resistance to lightning but i think they are weak against cold and fire

monster types that have good resistance against my damage seem to be beastmen.. but they are weak against dex based damage.. i have traps and poison

have 2 deaths so far both from ordinary mobs dealing poison damage because i play leroy jenkins with this char

when i get to maybe late act 3 legendary and if it's still doing good, i hope to make a character showcase thread just like @mammoth_hunter

it plays just like a brigand but with distort reality
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 11 August 2018, 12:42:00: i found 3 falcon cape already with this same character, the last 2 were in the same playthrough.. wet de? and tq-db doesn't say it but it has 50% elemental conversion.. hmm seems like the game is telling me to try falcon cape.. and i just might

the items I've found so far that have elemental conversion are:

eitr charm - 20% converted to elemental
blessing of the moirae - 33%
hofud - 50%
golden agris helmet - 50%
gambanteinn - 50%
falcon cape - 50%
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 11 August 2018, 16:57:20: Blessing of the Moirae is one item that makes things easy. For me its also one item I have tried not too long ago so I will likely pass on it for now. People here praise Chakrum of the Sun and this one is similar, you get some of the most useful stats this game has on just one item. Call it OP but if you take it you won't fail.

But if you wanted a 2H bow things are more complicated. I think TQ has too few slots for items. Thats an impression after spending lots of time in more modern competitors. If you just put eitr on two rings that leaves out demon's blood or legendaries and is a very drastic impact overall. You can't just give players eitr and call problem solved.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 11 August 2018, 20:26:17: can't use blessing of the moirae because i have no str to equip shield.. and i really don't like the short range.. it's fine for now but it's still in epic act 5.. actually, I'm considering equipping 2 eitrs + gambanteinn (90% conversion).. and equipping tunic of the magi + crest of hypnos.. those 2 items should take care of all resists even in legendary.. but i think that would be like last resort.. for now I'm thinking equipping lots of total damage then just enough resists to make it low positives or zero on legendary.. then just change items like getting more vit when I'm against Hades

edit: tunic of the magi + crest of hypnos + torc of the ancestors
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 11 August 2018, 21:05:38: Quote from: botebote77 on 11 August 2018, 20:26:17
edit: tunic of the magi + crest of hypnos + torc of the ancestors
Sounds like using three blessings at once. I don't mean any offense, just sarcasm.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 11 August 2018, 21:23:25: Quote from: mammoth_hunter on 11 August 2018, 21:05:38
Quote from: botebote77 on 11 August 2018, 20:26:17
edit: tunic of the magi + crest of hypnos + torc of the ancestors
Sounds like using three blessings at once. I don't mean any offense, just sarcasm.
;D

I'm also looking at:

golden agris
gambanteinn
SBC cuffs with primal magma (attack speed) this one has poison res
tunic of the magi (10% total damage)
torc of the ancestors (30%)
leggings of the defiled (10%)
green bow tyrant's of speed (30%) found this with my thunderer

the 2 rings I'm not sure yet but one is likely occult of immortality with demon's blood

total damage boosts my envenom weapon and elem damages, as well as PGB and distort reality.. I'm likely keeping PGB because it's fun and i have too many projectiles already so i chose it over throwing knife

what do you think?

i looked at your elemental sage and oh wow your DPS is 7k.. i can't go anywhere close to that.. i have traps though and hopefully my damage will be fine late game
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 17 August 2018, 06:58:23: when looking at these 2 weapons, it seems like tyrant's of speed should be better.. but in-game, it feels like they're just on par because of the damage spikes when reduced resist triggers

(https://i.imgur.com/SWy1tjt.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iWiHCFX.jpg)

and since bramblewood requires 20 less dex, i think i'll go with it

also, a mere flat 55 vit damage means 500 DPS difference?

(https://i.imgur.com/DWHMAWV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Vl8i9Tt.jpg)

i'll go with the last pic as my setup.. tunic of the magi is purifying of the impetus (poison and slow res).. that was epic craftsmanship reward.. the normal craftsmanship reward was scholar's golden agris of reasoning.. i can't wear it because my resists get burned

i've written too many on this thread already, i don't feel like making a showcase thread anymore :-\
but i can say it works, it's just so F***ING DIFFICULT TO GEAR ;D
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 17 August 2018, 20:07:19: What I said - there aren't many gear slots in TQ. Conversion takes quite a few. Then you need to get damage for it somewhere too, you can't just rely on nonexistant intelligence. Its better with a shield because one more slot. But with a bow you end up sacrificing defenses or using multi resist gimmicks, or both.
Title: Re: Weapon Damage Converted to Elemental without Rune
Post by: botebote77 on 17 August 2018, 21:13:08: i know that too that's why i dislike using a staff even though i play casters.. but Sommelier was born to be an archer so an archer he stays

and i got lucky with quest branch offering something.. the permanent resist reward was +5 to elemental.. so my resists now are 35 elem, 46 pierce, 80 vit, poison, bleed, 10 physical.. my DA is 970 which i can get to 1k when i max premonition

and i play x3 and in heavy mobs, most oftentimes than not, range is better than resist.. that also applies to 3 bosses.. plus, there is always scroll of elemental shielding

my other dreamkiller, str + int caster, is using a shield but meh don't know if i will continue playing it.. but maybe sometime in the future

edit: it's easy to play.. very difficult to gear but easy to play.. i drink mana sometimes but I'm used to that.. it's nothing compared to my casters where i carry 50 energy pots with me all the time