Author Topic: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?  (Read 49154 times)

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Offline AnnaLusia

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Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« on: 15 October 2018, 09:56:02 »
Hi

I just found out about Ragnarok 2 weeks ago and start playing it like 2 days ago. So i hope this could be a guide on Dragon Hunter but im typing on my phone now until my internet got back on again like in few days ahead.

I         Intro about TQ
II        Intro about IT
III       Intro about AE
IV       Rune + Caster class
V        Rune + Physical class (except Hunting)
VI       Rune + Hunting
VII      Skill progression
VIII     End game gears
IX       My Journey

I. Intro about TQ
When the game came out, it only have 8 classes. Which i divide it into 2 type. The caster type and the physical dmg dealer type. Caster type mainly focus on int and elemental damage while phys type mainly focus on str and dex build. The 4 caster are Storm, Earth, Spirit, Nature while the phys type are Warfare, Defense, Hunting, and Rogue. For me between these 8 classes there are some classes that are better than the other as the main class and theres only few classes that can synergize well with the better main class. Even tho you can mix everything and make it work somehow but i still feel that there are several OP dual class (Corsair, Conqueror, Oracle, Conjurer) while some are pretty hard to play (Illusionist). But of course this is based on my personal opinion and my preferred game style i like so and advices and critiques are welcomed.

Ok so im gonna try to define each of the first 8 classes in short

Storm is a strong main class as a caster bcoz of the dmg and stuns from the thunder, the impaired aim from squall, the slow from the ice. I feel Storm is slightly better than Earth. Why? Well maybe bcoz i prefer to hit enemies with thunder rather than hitting with the slow motion VO and Erupt. Its just feel more convenient to me.
And storm is also a good secondary class if you decide to make a phys hybrid type (means you use warfare, shield, hunting, rogue as your main class) and add some elemental thunder/ice dmg to your weapon. Im not to sure about Rogue tho bcoz i feel Rogue is the weakest class amongst all (until IT and AE arrived).

Earth is pretty much has the same definitiont as Storm but it used fire instead of thunder and ice. But if you put the 2 of em together, i feel they dont synergize too well bcoz in the end you need to decide on which elements are you going to use.

Spirit is also strong as a main class bcoz of Ternion skill tree. And it synergize really well with either storm or earth. Thus making spirit is kinda unreplaceable class. And you can use it as a life leeching phys hybrid class as a secondary class.

Nature...well i dont think its wise to use it as a main class since its skills mainly used as supportive and buff purpose. Altho the wolves are really cool. Not sure how strong they will become in legendary if you use it as your main dmg output. And i dont think the HOO would provide enough survivalbility if you use it as a hybrid. So basically nature is probably the weakest in caster class IMO. Probably its bcoz i dont know how to use it to its max potential.

Warfare is a strong main phys class with that cool dual wield and strong LMB skill in onslaught. Heck it can summon LoTR Aragon ghostly warriors which looks really cool and they are pretty strong too. You can use warfare with pretty much every other classes and it still be strong. The weakness of warfare i think you need a top tier gears to survive some boss battle bcoz you will pretty much get very close to the boss and a little lag and miss click could kill you.

Defense is slightly better than Warfare bcoz you are dual wielding with shield basically which give you extra survivalbility. A more stable class than Warfare, its like warfare is more an all out attack class while defense prioritize abit on survival with a still pretty strong dmg output. And yes this means you will pair defense much better with other classes compared to warfare. Unless...well maybe with Nature, i feel like im lacking dmg output and the survivalbility is kinda useless if you cant kill enemies or boss fast enough. Unless you play a multiplayer and commit to be a full time tank for your team, it would be pretty strong.

Hunting for me is the most OP classes it has skills that are strong on its own, means you basically dont need other classes to survive. Probably the class i would put my bet on to finish Legendary with a single class play. Wood lore, volley is OP. While study prey is a really boss killer. With the insane LMB Marksmanship tree and the AoTH CoTH tree, this class offer you anything either you make it as a main class or as a secondary class. In caster type you have Spirit while in phys type you have Hunting.

Rogue is supposed to be a very cool class with bleeding and poison tree, but gosh..fumble attack really good but its quite annoying when you are hacking enemies and they start to run away from you, unless you are using bow. Some of the skills are pretty good like the LMB CS, not the best LMB but its a good LMB for corsair and a spear brigand. Basically rogue offer some skills which i think it would work with hit and run type of game style which i dont like it since bow hit and run are more efficient rather than putting traps then run. It doesnt offer an insane dmg output nor a good survivalbility so i feel rogue might be the weakest class amongst the 8.

II. Intro about IT
And then here comes the awesome hybrid class. The Dream. Insane class bcoz it work really well with all 8 classes. You can maximize those wolves damage with nightmare summon. Or the 2 hit boss killer with Rogue. You can make a decent class even with the weak Nature and Rogue. Nuff said, it offer you probably the best Warfare class in Harbinger. And of coz the immortal toon in spear haruspex. Heck it even really strong if you use bow as a haruspex. Basically dream is a class that work with every other class. Which make me think either they wont give the 10th class or they will make a 10th class that will work pretty well with every other classes including dream.

III. Intro about AE
Here comes the Rune. A weird class bcoz it gives you a weird stats. It doesnt give u as many HP as any other classes, it only gives you a measly str which kinda useless, a low int as a caster, and another measly dex. Its weird until you start playing it and try to understand how its skills work.

The 1st tier is the LMB runic skill. Its a gamechanger it is. It change your phys dmg into elemental. So i feel this definitely will be a hybrid class.
The 2nd tier got many skills. The reckless is good since now you have other option than warfare to dual wield weapon. The sacred rage tree offer survivalbility. The energy armor also offer survivalbility. This is a strong skill for rune and rune class should be focused on int, i will explain later why.
The 3rd runeword tier. The feather works really awesome to dual wield some phys weapon. But like i said, rune should be focused on Int and again i will explain later on the Dragon Hunter part. While the explode and burn, it works like scattershot from hunting, gives you a cool animation boom and a small aoe damage that can kill mobs or boss quite fast. And the absorb is good if you use staff or shield but then again you can use the awesome LMB runic, right now im not sure how i can use this to increase my survivalbilty probably by swapping weapons during fight and use different skill sets to kill certain enemies in certain circumstances, any advices?
The 4th tier is basically its magic casted type of dmg output. Both offer a lot of control in stun, slow, impaired aim etc so until now this rune class is really versatile.
The 5th tier is a trap device which offer dmg output and another slow control.
The 6th tier stones offers you stuns control but i think many bosses got a pretty high stun resistance so these walls are more like a mini meat tank for you that cant move but it has other function like blocking enemies path. While the rune of life will give you extra strength and movement speed. A strong 10 minutes buff. I dont know why the developer didnt just make it an energy reserved type of skill.

Well like i said there are plenty of different game style in titan quest which make the game itself is versatile and wont make you bored since its really challenging to finish legendary with those weaker classes i mentioned earlier. The imagination runs wild if i want to be a thunderous archer or a dual wielding with axes and clubs with wolves around me and so on. And there are plenty equipment to make it works. And with the extra 39 skill points to use, you wont fail making a toon..i guess

Next is..there are few changes. But the biggest one i think is the max -80% recharge. This could mean that caster type got a massive nerf since you cant just master a single convenient skill and spam it across the map as you like (e.g. squall from storm). But it also means that the game will be more challenging to a caster type bcoz you will definitely need another skill to put it as a combo just like many other RPG game. And thus making the non recharge skill such as ice shard and flame surge and ternion will shine even more. And well of course the Refresh from Nature and sacred rage from Runes and any other -recharge from gears will play more roles. And since you dont need to reach the -100% recharge, maybe theres a chance to increase your atk speed or casting speed or maybe +%elemental dmg. So this -80% recharge maxed isnt as massive as i think it would be for casters but make the game itself more challenging and more fun

IV. Rune + Caster class
Rune + Storm
Like i said Rune should be focused on Int and since i feel Storm is the strongest elemental caster class then this should work well right? But in fact its not that much difference than Oracle. The ternion can be replaced with Runeword explode and burn since its function is to kill mobs fast. You wont be using the awesome RW and RO. Its awesome bcoz i think these 2 skills are the characteristics of Rune class. Change phys to elemental and a single skill of dual wielding. While yes you will have more survivalbility as a storm user with Sacred Rage, Energy Armor and Runeword absorb. Then since you cant spam squall, you have seal of fate and aftershock to keep those impaired aim on archers. And you have the extra movement speed from rune of life which is nice for a caster. The traps and the walls will keep enemies busy and you still have thunder strike as your other dmg output spell. Overall yes this would work. You will maybe use storm as your main class here. Dont forget that you are missing tons of hp from the Rune class bonus stat but instead you get an extra 1.3k hp from phys dmg from energy armor at maxed level (you get more if you can give +4).
1 other thing, yes you can experiment building a dual wielding with throwing weapon but this will be not much difference than making a dual wielding warfare with storm. The difference in Rune will be focusing on Int instead of Str Dex with warfare. Throwing a squall then hitting enemies with those throwers seems fun.
Why use throwing weapons? Bcoz throwing weapon requirements are low compared to other weapons. With feather and rune of life online, you will most likely wont need to add str stat. Just go all int. The dex will be enough from the rune and storm stats bonus. And hell yeah you might be able to swap to staff then use traps and stones etc then swap to dual throw then whack whack whack.

Rune + Earth
Pretty much works the same like Storm. But the earth enchantment is what make the difference if you decide to make a dual wielding thrower that goes boom boom boom all the time. This is why i feel now Earth got the advantage over Storm in this version. But both Storm and Earth, are you gonna whack the boss or are you gonna use the eruption VO combo to kill boss from far away?  Or you can use both. Its both a versatile classes. Again this is my opinion so i will leave the details to other guides

Rune + Spirit
Well..ternion with explode and burn..sounds good to me..a machine gun type staff user that can summon a super cool lich king..summoning stones and traps and all..or a dual wielding thrower whack whack whack with lifesteal. I dont feel the survivalbility is good enough tho.

Rune + Nature
Well..the -elemental resistance from the Plague skill tree synergize really well. You can play it safe from behind using staff. Create briar, traps, stones, let the wolves chase enemies and you spam plague and aftershock etc. And you got that cute nymph that i dont think wont survive that much no matter what you do. But seriously do you have time to make all that in front of a boss? Lets say..cerberus? I still feel you are lacking a boss killer with this build.
So lets see if we try the dual wielding thrower build with wolves. Looks damn cool, i love wolves. But the only thing you can do is pretty much throwing the plague then start whacking the boss. Well again this is my personal opinion, i dont know how strong those wolves are in legendary at killing boss. If you play a pet type then i feel Dream class with nightmare buff is still better than rune. Again my opinion is based on how i like to play this whacking rpg game.

V. Rune + Physical class (except Hunting)
Rune + Dream
Well basically you will use the main offensive skills from Rune if you want to build a caster type. TR to petrify then spam the Rune skills. I think Storm and Earth are a better option. Since Dream itself is already a hybrid and to combine it with another hybrid is just..you will have a weird stats bonuses. And if you decided to dual whack thrower type then maybe you want to look at weapons with electric burn and sleep chance. It might work, you know, Phantom then TR then whack whack whack with Trance of Wrath. But i doubt it will be as strong as Storm or Earth.

Rune + Warfare
It looks nice at first, but actually its not IMO. Why? First i think no matter what type you build a Rune class (staff caster type or dual wield thrower type), you will build it up based on Int not Str Dex. Bcoz it has an LMB that require your Int instead of your Str and Dex. Both Warfare and Rune got the dual wield skill which can work together and this is actually massive but this only if you use swords, axe or clubs. The hew, crosst cut and tumult wont work on throwing. So this means you will build this character based on Str Dex the phys dmg type. So you will choose onslaught instead of Rune Weapon. But if you decide to use Int build then go for RW instead of onslaught then you will ignore hew cross cut and tumult and probably the weak dual wield which only give you measly dmg from warfare. So actually these 2 classes cancel each other out. Lets say you want to commit on str dex build type just bcoz you want the extra 100%dmg from Reckless Offense. You know, warfare has always have this 1 problem and that is survivalbility, Rune class offer you not that much survivalbility if you need to get close to a strong boss. Except from sacred rage and dodge attacks. But yes you can kill boss faster, maybe get some life leech weapon will make your toon a 3hit boss kill wonder, probably could be the strongest phys dps output in a very late game with a very strong gears.
Seems strong right? Well, warfare + hunting with tons of +%pierce dmg and study prey might offer more dps output in late game rather than a single +100%dmg

Rune + Defense
We all know Defense is better than Warfare bcoz the shield skills are better than dual wielding. But tbh for Rune, Defense is not better than Warfare. 1st you wont build an Int type bcoz you need shields as a Defense toon, this means your LMB will be RW and Energy Drain maxed. The -%offensive ability gives you more survivalbility and the extra damage from RW is nice. But then again i feel its all a Rune has to offer to Defense. Defense is an OP class so i wont be surprised if this class works well with high survivalbility.

Rune + Rogue
Rogue dmg is based on bleeding and poison. This means you have to build a dex type toon. If you want to play a caster type then Storm or Earth would be a better choice. If you want to play a hitter type then go warfare or defense. What about traps type? Rogue trap based on pierce dmg or you need dex while Rune type based on element dmg or Int based. Well there are 2 ways to build this. 1st you focus on Int, maxes RW skill tree, use dual wield thrower with envenom weapon skill tree just to make enemies fumble, lay some Runic traps and stuff. Its still versatile but i doubt the dps will be good and fast enuff to kill bosses. It also offer almost no survivalbility. Probably one of the worst Hp bonuses from stats. 2nd is to focus on Str Dex. Maxed only RW and Energy Drain then build either a poison focused build or bleeding type build. Focus more on dex instead of str. Dont use sword even if the blade honing is tempting. I feel throwing weapons from abit far will increase your survivalbilty. A good envenom weapon spread with explode right? Then find gears that need more dex instead of str. Its a very challenging class i must say.

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Offline AnnaLusia

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #1 on: 15 October 2018, 10:08:12 »
VI. Runes +Hunting
Well finally here we are. So my imagination after seeing the Rune class is that of a forest druid or shaman than has this elemental power but doesnt like to use staff. So..yeah the new throw weapon class seems works really well with Rune class.
Next, Hunting is an OP class on its own like i explained earlier. And now with Rune, its open alot of synergy, potential or whatever you want to name it.

The idea is to use a dual wield throwing weapon that will inflict tons of elemental dmg. The str bonus from Hunting and Rune, then the Str bonus from quests then the feather rune +4 will allow you to wear Touch of Nyx, probably the best throwing weapon since it gives reduced resistance to enemies stats and it has high dmg output also without putting any str stats. And remember you still can cast Rune of Life.
Next you will put all stats to int. Then i will tell you the skills you need.
From Rune : RW skill tree except Magical Charge, Reckless Offense, max Explode but you dont have to max Burn, maxed the Sacred Rage skill tree, maxed Energy Armor, maxed Feather, put some skill on Rune of Life if you need more Bleed and Vit resistance..you can maxed it later on since you will have enough skill points anyway
From Hunting : Maxed Wood Lore, add 1 point in Herbal Remedy if you need extra Poison res, max Aoth skill tree except for Trail Blazing..you can put some points if you need more movement speed or just maxed it later on sincr you will have enuff skill points anyway. Maxed Volley, maxed Study Prey and Flush Out.

At this point you should know what im aiming, the lack of atk speed is covered by Wood Lore as a dual thrower you want max atk speed you can get. This is why i think throwing weapon is a perfect match since its already has a fast or very fast speed. Then the volley..it got chance to throw 3 attacks in the same time. Means, it got chance to do a 3x dmg or a +300% damage if those 3 hits the same enemy or boss and with dual thrower this could be a +600% dmg in just 1 second. Even if its by chance, is there any other skills from Storm or Earth that can do the same? The extra Pierce dmg from AoTH is nice. Im not sure how Transmutation work on pierce damage from weapon. And last..the boss killer skill Study Prey that players would usually only maxed Study Prey without paying attention to Flush Out since usually Hunting is used as a phys dmg output class. But now? Flush Out synergize really well with RW. The other way to increase your elemental damage output is to decrease enemies %elemental res. So i know Earth got alot to offer in +%fire damage but it doesnt have this awesome boss killer. Which you can use pretty much almost everytime since you are going to wear alot of int gears. Means you will gain alot of -%recharge. The duration is 8 seconds while lets say the cooldown of Study Prey is 20 seconds. With -60% recharge you can keep spamming it on boss. And wait. If you are lacking atk speed then just use CoTH another boss killer skill. Thus i think Rune best pair is Hunting.

VII. Skill Progression
Well for me personally the hardest part in Normal is when i have to beat Typhon, i dont think you will have much problem beating any boss before Typhon.

But anyway this is what you are going to be like when you finish act 1 normal
https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc39343934rune64ca.html?mastery=Dragon Hunter&master1=7&master2=10&sa=1&m1=7-0-0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-3-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-6-0-0

Put some points at RW for more damage as you see fit, the act 1 Telkine is not that hard to kill anyway, put 1 each in Explode and Burn, then after that focus on getting the bonus stats from Hunting mastery. Well until now i got lucky by getting Hoi Polloi, a lvl 6 blue throwing weapon that grants you a Volley skill, so every now and then i throw 3 projectiles. This help me a lot until i got my hand on the real Volley skill from Hunting near the end of act 2.

act 2 normal
https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalc39343934rune64ca.html?mastery=Dragon Hunter&master1=7&master2=10&sa=3&m1=32-0-0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-3-0&m2=32-3-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-6-0-0
Well like i said, getting stats from Hunting is quite important since you will need the Str to equip better weapons and the HP to increase your survivalbility

« Last Edit: 21 October 2018, 18:38:11 by AnnaLusia »

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Offline AnnaLusia

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #2 on: 15 October 2018, 10:12:28 »
VIII. End Game Gear
Weapons : Touch of Nyx (right)
                    Blessings of the Moiriae (left)
Head : Golden Agris Helmet
Torso : Corselet of Freyja
Hands : Armlets of Freyja
Legs : Boots of Freyja
Rings : 2x Celestial Band
Amulet : Brisingamen
Artifact : I forgot its name. But its a new blue (epic) level from AE version.

From the weapons, these 2 are probably the strongest weapon i can find for Rune class, the Nyx got this frostburn that will slow enemies down, reduced resistance in %, fumble, impaired aim, chance to sleep, -30% energy cost FTW, etc. While the Moirae add %elemental dmg and a flat 200ish elemental dmg, -24%recharge, 9% total speed, %elemental resistance and the 33%weapon damage becomes elemental. Well for the last point here im not sure how it works tho since for the...
Head im choosing the Golden Agris bcoz it has the +1 to all skills, -25%recharge, +25%ele dmg and the 50% WBDbE (Weapon Base Damage becomes Elemental). So with Moirae and the Golden Agris and from the Transmutation skill i got like more than 100% WBDbE. So i wonder if a weapon has 100 BD. Will it becomes lets say 150ele dmg or just 100ele dmg if we think 100% is the max it can transmute. I need an insight on this.

Then the torso. Damn Corselet of Freyja is the best. +1 to all skills but damn that +100% defensive abilty is what makes this Int based armor shine while i choose the other 2 Freyja parts in Armlets and Boots which give +100 flat DA means you get a free +400 DA alone from these 3 gears. Not to mention the +%ele res, the -%recharge, the +%ele dmg.
I will count the total %res you get later with this setup

Next for the rings, i think 2x Celestial Band is the best choice here, any suggestions are welcomed.
For the amulet im using Brisingamen for the +2 skills, well Aphro Favor is still an option but since Brisingamen is part of the Freyja sets i think the extra Hp and atk speed from the set bonus is nice

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #3 on: 15 October 2018, 12:27:29 »
I've only read very little.. maybe later when I've finished cooking :))

but your rune caster isn't really a caster.. it's still a dual thrown toon dealing elemental damage.. this one is true rune caster:

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=213.msg6107#msg6107

https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=213.msg6836#msg6836

key word is caster  :P
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Offline AnnaLusia

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #4 on: 15 October 2018, 12:46:21 »
Oh i didnt try to build a caster type, but im trying to build a dual thrower Int based toon. That means it will inflict tons of elemental damage from those 2 throwing weapons.

And i just realized just now that i need to spend some points on Dex, bcoz Feather only reduce the Str requirement, i will do the math later on how many points should i spend on Dex so i would be able to wear the Touch of Nyx.

I dont like playing caster type for some reason in TQ hahaha but please read my thoughts if you have the time, i could use some suggestions and critiques on this build.

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Offline botebote77

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #5 on: 15 October 2018, 13:16:22 »
as for the title question, maybe easiest to build.. but easiest to build is different from best.. thing is, ragnarok is too gear dependent that it's very difficult to determine which class is best.. there is too much imbalance in ragnarok items
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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #6 on: 15 October 2018, 13:27:21 »
Oh i didnt try to build a caster type
i was referring to part 4 of your topic

here is another way of playing rune, petmaster style :)
https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=477.0
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Offline mammoth_hunter

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #7 on: 15 October 2018, 13:31:10 »
VIII. End Game Gear
Weapons : Touch of Nyx (right)
                    Blessings of the Moiriae (left)
Head : Golden Agris Helmet
Torso : Corselet of Freyja
Hands : Armlets of Freyja
Legs : Boots of Freyja
Rings : 2x Celestial Band
Amulet : Brisingamen
Artifact : I forgot its name. But its a new blue (epic) level from AE version.
With gear like that any class is best. Except most anti-synergistic ones maybe. On dragon hunter its 1000% meta. Can I have a little more meta with this meta? :) If I am to propose something there, it would be getting more attack speed and mana regen. ADCTH is also useful.

Right, the only true damage spells in rune are seal of fate and runic mines. Rune weapon and thunder strike are attacks. Caster dragon hunter is sort of a contradiction in itself. Natural dragon hunter is mage-zon like build with flashy elemental attacks and few spells to support them.

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #8 on: 15 October 2018, 13:34:12 »
I'm more of a visual guy, and this wall of text isn't much appealing... maybe you have a picture of your character with its stats? Like resistances, DPS, OA, DA...

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #9 on: 15 October 2018, 17:18:58 »
Ok, so, I did some testing. 

I maxed every pertinent skill for Rune and Hunting for Rune Weapon and wait for it...Marksmanship.  I figured, ok, Rune Weapon has some sick bonuses, but Hunting as a LOT of piercing buffs.  Can you make it work with a dex based Marksman build (obviously you can, and can it be comparable to Rune Weapon). 

So, I put Int and Dex at 300 and used a couple of basic throwing knives with 10% piercing ratio.  Clearly this can be buffed either way, but this is only for testing purposes.

I tested Rune Weapon tree maxed, Reckless Offence Maxed and Rune Word Explode and Burn Maxed against the Markeman Tree max with Art of the Hunt and Call of the Hunt.

Rune Weapon did more damage, and by upwards of 50%.  Interestingly enough, if I attacked with Marksman right after maxed stacks of RW, then Marksman benefited a lot from the % damage increase.  It seemed to do even more damage, but also, it appeared that, in general, RW outperformed Marksman on a single target.  But that is where it got interesting.

I went to Sparta in the enemy camp where there are three targets side by side.  I did two tests.  I stood perpendicular to the middle target and started markmaning.  Both side targets got hit with scattershot and both procced Runeword Explode EVERY time my main target did.  It appears that the proc is checked once on the initial throw and then if you hit 9 fragments, then 9 runeword explodes.  Wowzers.  I then decided to test Punctureshot and lined up all three targets in a row.  If I targeted the first target, passthrough seemed to go through it every time.  I figured it would have been only 55% of the time, but it actually went through to the third target like 75% of the time.  Not sure how that is all calculated.  Even more so, if I targeted the last target, it seemed every attack went through.

If people want pics, I'll see if I can grab some, but when I attacked with RW, on the first target, some nice numbers went up and it went ding ding ding and sometimes the other targets would get hit with Runeword Explode.  With marksmanship, my screen was full of yellow numbers.  It was beautiful.  Marksmanship absolutely rocks with Runeword explode.  I'll have to test this with a real character in the game, but everything was lit up like a Christmas Tree.  Also to note that it seems enemies can only be procced once.  So, hit a target, and Explode procced, all three targets got hit with the initial dagger throw (2 if Reckless procced or 3 if Volley procced), then all three targets got hit with a scattershot (just 1) and all 3 got hit with a Runeword Explode (just 1).  I couldn't tell if Runeword Burn procced on all 3 cause it is burn damage, but I am sure it did.

Some side notes.  I didn't notice any projectile speed bonuses.  And I couldn't test bleed either.  Clearly the bleeding gets bonified from the other hunting skills and dex (nice additional damage). 

Also, Thunderstrike loses a little bit of goodness as it doesn't get the Int scaling bonus to the lightning and electrical burn.  Clearly Marksmanship doesn't have the other bonuses like leach health and energy, and it scales with Dex, not Int and you can't get a double dex like you can get a double int.

Marksmanship:


Rune Weapon:

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Offline wolpak

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #10 on: 15 October 2018, 17:37:04 »
Doing some more testing, I think Marksmanship is vastly superior when dealing with a boss that has mobs around it.  A) your daggers don't get stopped by the guys in front of you, and B) if you focus on the boss, those guys get the full brunt of your attacks.  Also, Marksman doesn't have to warm up either.  It's always ready to go.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2018, 17:40:53 by wolpak »

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Offline AnnaLusia

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #11 on: 15 October 2018, 18:06:17 »
Oh i didnt try to build a caster type
i was referring to part 4 of your topic

here is another way of playing rune, petmaster style :)
https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=477.0
Ah i see, well im not a fan of a caster so im not too sure on how to play a good caster haha and gosh that xmax3 so OP, but i feel like stand in one place buffing summoning and let the pets do the dirty work is just kinda..boring haha but then again it seems has tons of survivalbility


VIII. End Game Gear
Weapons : Touch of Nyx (right)
                    Blessings of the Moiriae (left)
Head : Golden Agris Helmet
Torso : Corselet of Freyja
Hands : Armlets of Freyja
Legs : Boots of Freyja
Rings : 2x Celestial Band
Amulet : Brisingamen
Artifact : I forgot its name. But its a new blue (epic) level from AE version.
With gear like that any class is best. Except most anti-synergistic ones maybe. On dragon hunter its 1000% meta. Can I have a little more meta with this meta? :) If I am to propose something there, it would be getting more attack speed and mana regen. ADCTH is also useful.

Right, the only true damage spells in rune are seal of fate and runic mines. Rune weapon and thunder strike are attacks. Caster dragon hunter is sort of a contradiction in itself. Natural dragon hunter is mage-zon like build with flashy elemental attacks and few spells to support them.
I think theres some ADCTH in the RW skill tree already but if you want more then maybe we have to look at gears that give more ADCTH right, but it will be hard since i feel the Nyx and Moriae is too good to be switch out

I'm more of a visual guy, and this wall of text isn't much appealing... maybe you have a picture of your character with its stats? Like resistances, DPS, OA, DA...
I will try maybe after i finish normal act?? Since this isnt a sure guide, more like a super biased opinions based on my experience playing IT and since the Rune class got out i only have like few days to start playing a Dragon Hunter and its working out so well so far for me. The challenge will be when im up against Typhon and Cerberus.

Ok, so, I did some testing. 

I maxed every pertinent skill for Rune and Hunting for Rune Weapon and wait for it...Marksmanship.  I figured, ok, Rune Weapon has some sick bonuses, but Hunting as a LOT of piercing buffs.  Can you make it work with a dex based Marksman build (obviously you can, and can it be comparable to Rune Weapon). 

So, I put Int and Dex at 300 and used a couple of basic throwing knives with 10% piercing ratio.  Clearly this can be buffed either way, but this is only for testing purposes.

I tested Rune Weapon tree maxed, Reckless Offence Maxed and Rune Word Explode and Burn Maxed against the Markeman Tree max with Art of the Hunt and Call of the Hunt.

Rune Weapon did more damage, and by upwards of 50%.  Interestingly enough, if I attacked with Marksman right after maxed stacks of RW, then Marksman benefited a lot from the % damage increase.  It seemed to do even more damage, but also, it appeared that, in general, RW outperformed Marksman on a single target.  But that is where it got interesting.

I went to Sparta in the enemy camp where there are three targets side by side.  I did two tests.  I stood perpendicular to the middle target and started markmaning.  Both side targets got hit with scattershot and both procced Runeword Explode EVERY time my main target did.  It appears that the proc is checked once on the initial throw and then if you hit 9 fragments, then 9 runeword explodes.  Wowzers.  I then decided to test Punctureshot and lined up all three targets in a row.  If I targeted the first target, passthrough seemed to go through it every time.  I figured it would have been only 55% of the time, but it actually went through to the third target like 75% of the time.  Not sure how that is all calculated.  Even more so, if I targeted the last target, it seemed every attack went through.

If people want pics, I'll see if I can grab some, but when I attacked with RW, on the first target, some nice numbers went up and it went ding ding ding and sometimes the other targets would get hit with Runeword Explode.  With marksmanship, my screen was full of yellow numbers.  It was beautiful.  Marksmanship absolutely rocks with Runeword explode.  I'll have to test this with a real character in the game, but everything was lit up like a Christmas Tree.  Also to note that it seems enemies can only be procced once.  So, hit a target, and Explode procced, all three targets got hit with the initial dagger throw (2 if Reckless procced or 3 if Volley procced), then all three targets got hit with a scattershot (just 1) and all 3 got hit with a Runeword Explode (just 1).  I couldn't tell if Runeword Burn procced on all 3 cause it is burn damage, but I am sure it did.

Some side notes.  I didn't notice any projectile speed bonuses.  And I couldn't test bleed either.  Clearly the bleeding gets bonified from the other hunting skills and dex (nice additional damage). 

Also, Thunderstrike loses a little bit of goodness as it doesn't get the Int scaling bonus to the lightning and electrical burn.  Clearly Marksmanship doesn't have the other bonuses like leach health and energy, and it scales with Dex, not Int and you can't get a double dex like you can get a double int.

Marksmanship:


Rune Weapon:


Hmm so you can puncture enemies with throwing weapons? This is just wow, but again if you want to focused on Mark instead of RW then i think it will be the same as a bow Haru? It might be even better in terms of survivalbility with high DA and CtAP. The reason why i pick RW over Mark is bcoz i want to focus on ele dmg and bcoz theres the boss killer Flush Out, it insanely reduce enemies %ele res, and with an int based toon and a maxed RW charge, i mean %int, %ele, and %total damage increased with a -54%ele res when its maxed+4?? I feel like the problem in TQ is not mobs (only sometimes), but i always think if you can beat a strong boss in no time, then mobs wont be a problem to you. This is why i feel RW is better than Mark.

Doing some more testing, I think Marksmanship is vastly superior when dealing with a boss that has mobs around it.  A) your daggers don't get stopped by the guys in front of you, and B) if you focus on the boss, those guys get the full brunt of your attacks.  Also, Marksman doesn't have to warm up either.  It's always ready to go.
True, this is the downside of RW compared to Mark, but then again a strong boss like Typhon, Cerberus, Charon wont be surrounded by mobs hahaha, beside the Flush Out is just too good IMO a -54% ele res means you doubled your ele atk, with a dual thrower that means you dish out like +400% ele atk right?? And if 2 volley got out in a row and hit the same target, that would be like +1200% ele atk right?? CMIIW but thats how i count it, not to mention you still got the damage output from the pierce damage itself. If lets say you want to build a Dex based dual thrower or archer, then you will miss that +1200% ele atk chance. This is why i think Hunting is the best pair to Rune

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Offline WNG

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #12 on: 15 October 2018, 18:49:38 »
A bit out of the topic, but why are you considering Cerberus one of the toughest challenges? A decent health pool + fire resistance and maxed out Herbal Remedy and you will be good, right?

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Offline wolpak

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #13 on: 15 October 2018, 19:01:35 »
Study Prey gives even more -resistance to piercing that Flush out does to Elemental Resist.

RW gives elemental damage, so you are going to be doing 1/3 fire, 1/3 cold and 1/3rd lightning and only that.  So, clearly focusing on +elemental damage works best.  For Marksmanship, you are in a similar boat in terms of damage.  You have physical from the weapon and piercing from the ratio and bonuses.  You can also factor in bleeding. 

Bow doesn't give you the Reckless Offence Proc, which is significant in terms of damage.  Also, it is one item instead of two, with additional bonuses.  I'm assuming Thunderstrike only send out 5 daggers instead of 10. 

RW is definitely a stronger single target damage dealer (though, a lot of that also depends on itemization).  A Marksman can go DEX/STR or SEX/INT for armor where a RW is stuck with INT/DEX (for Stonebinders). 

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Offline sauruz

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Re: Dragon Hunter is the best Rune class?
« Reply #14 on: 15 October 2018, 19:43:12 »
A bit out of the topic, but why are you considering Cerberus one of the toughest challenges? A decent health pool + fire resistance and maxed out Herbal Remedy and you will be good, right?

why fire ? cerberus is poison based if i remenber
Check my upcoming TQ project - Titanomachy - "https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=910.0"

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