Author Topic: After all these DLCs, is it still viable to beat whole game w hc/untwinked char?  (Read 3847 times)

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Offline Bughuul

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Or I'm still n00b. Cuz I constantly die and create a new toon.. aarghh.. that game is not that hard.. playing hardcore and untwinked makes it a bit harder ya but lots of dlcs got added, from ragnarök to atlantis, and new four acts on eternal embers.. soo playing hardcore is really hard at this point.. or is it just me? I find playing game with deaths soo fucken pointless to me.. waste of time.. I enjoy it only with deathless..

What you think? Summoning some pros @botebote77 @MedeaFleecestealer @Vio @sauruz @Zardoz @CrocMagnum @Firebrand @mammoth_hunter @Laionidas @icefreeze  and ofc our hc + untwinked player @stormyboy

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Offline stormyboy

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Heya! First of all, you got my category wrong. I don't belong with the pros. I am the most average guy that has ever existed. I am just so patient that the game dies of boredom while i take it slow :D.

So, right now, i have 2 attempts of finishing the game +rag + atlantiss deathless /no potions/ untwink. First was with a hunter+ nature that died because i was stupid (overpulled some dragon chargers in mount usao). But up to that point it went flawless. Now i am playing a summoner that is around the 3rd portal. Everything with this one is easy (besides normal. That was a nightmare).

So a few tips and tricks:
-pick a mastery with healing or health regen (if you want to play potionless)
-go ranged. Melee characters should be able to finish a normal, non-xmax game, with no problem at all. But just to be sure, go ranged (or use pets).
-go slow. I never, NEEEEVER pull an entire pack. I pull a monster from the side, take it back, repeat (it's not that slow because you usually end up with half of pack).
-attack damage converted to health is the key unless you are a caster
-vitality +pierce resist = love. All resists are important. But i found these 2 the key of survival
-always update your items with vendor greens. Farm vendors in act 3 and hades. Go for rings with %your main stat or %pierce or elemental depending on your damage. Hollowed helmet with +1stat, sbc farmed at the gorgons in the labirinth
-use the scrolls.i always keep around the scroll that reduces incoming damage.
-ignore % experience gain. Those items are worthless. I have some calculations on that but i was too lazy to post.
-try to find good green vendor gear or MI. A lot better than blue and purple gear because you can balance your resist/damage/stats from the relics.

Now that i check the list again, the most important one is to go slow. Ignore the rest :)).

Do you have a character in mind that you want to get through the game?

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Offline Bughuul

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Well, firstly, thanks for your detailed answer @stormyboy

My biggest mistake is that especially when my killspeed is so damn fast, I pull lots of mobs and die.. I def need to take it slow. But I'm impatient, that's why my most of toons even couldn't reach epic and mostly die in Act IV..

I don't scrolls.. I def have to use them, like cyclops on bosses, and sky's rage.. on normal ya, I'm impatient while fighting Typhon lol.

Where's best vendor for hallowed helm in normal? I always came up with sbc ofc.

A few of examples,

My int based soothsayer died in Act IV.. things was easy and pulled lots of packs of mobs and after my pets die, I died immediately.
At least 2-3 of my ice-sharder paladin couldn't reach Act V as well.. damage output was insane, and that triggered me to pull lots of packs again..
Melee diviner.. my most tankiest toon.. but I died in Act IV again..
Now I'm trying runesmith. I'm in Changan. After removing energy armor, tbh I'm squishy a bit.

Any class that you can recommend for finishing hardcore? I'll give up soon it seems so lol.

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Offline stormyboy

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There you go. You just need to slow down. Play 2 characters. One character for crazy speed runs and killing spree and one hardcore. And never play your hardcore character when tired or bored. I have learned that the hard way.

As for vendors, i first farm megara for rings and amulets. Then i just check the vendors every time i sell my stuff (even in xmax legendary i gather all yellow and above items). The first vendor i hit for hollowed helm is the one in act 3 chang an (the name is sure wrong :)).). Depending on how well i am killing stuff i either go between that portal and the great wall portal or i push to rhodos and go between rhodos and chang an. Vendors reset every time you portal to another zone. I never log in/log out because i find it inefficient. The next good spot would be elysium - plains of judgement (the portal is a bit far from the vendor but you have 2 separate vendors with good chances to spawn stuff). And while your are there check everything : armors, weapons, rings.

Hmmm good combo. My most efficient:
-bow haruspex. All you need is to keep up that adcth
-staff dream+storm: i am using the last skill from the dream tree of psionic touch. That dude is crushing in single target
-anything paired with hunting actually. Hunting is a crazy powerful mastery for going hardcore. Especially with a bow.
-pet summoner
-pet guardian
And what i love about pet builds is that finding items for them is very simple. You slap on every piece of item that has the word resist and ignore your damage. On legendary, my summoner is close to 80 % to all soooo, yeaaa.



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Offline botebote77

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yeah. tbh, my impression of your characters... forgive me for criticizing your build ideas/choices, but i don't like them. and that's me trying to sound nice.

like your spirit/warfare almost permanent..... like what is that?  ;D

i understand its fun, but hold off on that. try playing basic builds first like conqueror or warden. i would add my earlier suggestion psionic beam earth with tinkerer staff prometheus flame + anubis wrath and sb cuffs with primal magma to those basic builds as well

if you manage to do it with a basic build, maybe then try your other stuff ideas

from the builds you mentioned, the only build i give a thumbs up to is runesmith. you said it's squishy. check your DA and resists. defense has a skill that raises DA, and rune has a skill that raises vit and bleed res
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Offline Bughuul

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Lol feel free to talk shit on em man.. no worries haha! I like fun builds cuz ordinary builds are easy to play with and booring asf. Conqueror and warden.. especially early game, they are very boring really. Also that pet spellbreaker is a fun, isn't it? :D But tbh never tried that evoker, can you give me more details? I'd try it. I like casters and pet builds most in this game.

@stormyboy Guardian is not my type.. lots of skills to use.. I prefer pet summoner or pet champion.. maybe melee ritualist? Idk, I love pet builds as I said above. And bow builds can be fun but I find em lack of aoe skills, especially early game. I may try your summoner builds tho (you did it str build not int, correct? also do you use eruption/vo or just pets, can you clarify me about your playstyle? and when do you get core dweller? just after max wolves or?)

Edit: Just reread our convo on hc challenge topic.. about your summoner I mean and I learned lots of things that I asked.. but wanna ask that when you get core? after nymph? after wolves? Cannot decide when to get it.. ideal time to get him
« Last Edit: 08 December 2021, 14:05:29 by Bughuul »

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Offline stormyboy

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Exactly what i was search as well. Someone asked me about how i play my summoner and i have detailed everything on page 43 of the challenge.

As for the order, +1 nature >max out wolves (you need to farm sparta and megara vendors for a staff and a neck to have +2to nature. It's mandatory. That way you can have 3 puppies out at all times, without shrine) >+1to regrowth >+fire untill you get to core>max out core>+nature up to str of the pack>max str of the pack and ad 1 to heart of oak. Basically, that is it. Try to get nymph with at least overgrowth and nature wrath because at times, she will be your boss killer. I personally never attack because even a level 1 plague will make the entire planet focus me. I just heal and buff core with heat shield.

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Offline Bughuul

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Exactly what i was search as well. Someone asked me about how i play my summoner and i have detailed everything on page 43 of the challenge.

As for the order, +1 nature >max out wolves (you need to farm sparta and megara vendors for a staff and a neck to have +2to nature. It's mandatory. That way you can have 3 puppies out at all times, without shrine) >+1to regrowth >+fire untill you get to core>max out core>+nature up to str of the pack>max str of the pack and ad 1 to heart of oak. Basically, that is it. Try to get nymph with at least overgrowth and nature wrath because at times, she will be your boss killer. I personally never attack because even a level 1 plague will make the entire planet focus me. I just heal and buff core with heat shield.

Yup that's exactly what I thought, thanks! Luckily no needed to farm for sbc cuz it dropped on my run lol. Now need an amulet or a staff for another +1, so I can have 3 wolves. Just started Act II now!

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Offline botebote77

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boring. yep i understand that. when i first played conqueror, i couldn't continue because it was so boring. all you do is hit hit hit slash slash slash. then when my nephew made one himself, he also stopped because it was so boring.

although with Atlantis, it gives you an alternate build. but i shouldn't tell you that because you'll just make another post titled Pet Conqueror - Almost Permanent  Ancestral Warriors and Phalanx. this kind of build shouldn't be very weird but only if you are playing twinked and you have good items already. yeah but we don't want that

alright so psionic beam evoker. this one you can do self-found.

skills - just start with dream and put 1pt each on the first 2 psionic skills, 1 pt on nightmare and hypnotic gaze, 1pt each on lucid dream skills, 1pt each on distort. also 1pt on earth enchantment. but that's it for earth, so just 2pts on earth. the rest goes to dream mastery. when you reach 40pts dream, max the beam. after maxing beam, only then put points on earth. trance too, i don't think trance helps you much very early game, but around act 3 feels like the time to put 1pt. also the time to put 1pt on mastermind because theoretically, you'll have core dweller right around this time

items - just use the best fire staff you can find early. after beating Typhon and before starting act 4, farm the Gadir merchant again and again until you find a fire tinkerer staff. complete prometheus flame and anubis wrath on the item (not inventory), to get attack speed completion bonus. in act 5, i encourage you to farm for blackbeards booties in primrose. its full of resists and DA you can use it the rest of the game. then farm for primal magma that you will socket on SB cuffs. you might want a hallowed helm, but if you ask me, I'll go for 30% physical res. that would be sthenos wisdom + dionysus wineskin + heat shield.

I've had this rough plan before which i wasn't able to do because i died because I'm stupid:
tinkerer staff with prometheus flame + anubis wrath
sb cuffs with primal magma
sthenos wisdom with pristine plumage bleed
impenetrable armor with pristine plumage bleed
blackbeards booties
golden belt artifact
tinkerer ring with demons blood elem res + dionysus
tinkerer ring with demons blood vit res + monkey kings pierce res
divine/sacred amulet with monkey kings pierce res
(all farmable items, right?)

edit: i was planning to get resistant/insulated of the tinkerer jewelries just for some elem res. just from experience, they're not very hard to find in epic atlantis

note that the standard completion bonus for pristine plumage and monkey kings are bleed res and pierce res, respectively. so even if there's 2 of them each, you don't have to farm again and again to find the right completion bonus

resists will be low positive in legendary, but there's 20% absorption from trance. there's also 30% physical res and the ever reliable tank core dweller

edit: this needs a cold staff secondary weapon for late act 5. Surtr won't be very hard. I've experienced it
« Last Edit: 08 December 2021, 22:21:00 by botebote77 »
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Offline stormyboy

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@Bughuul good job. Keep an eye out for an amulet with 20%damage and 20%adcth for pets. That one combined with survival instincts upgrade for wolves will make them immortal. They will just yoyo from 30% to full and back to 30% and back to full. And if you have sbc i recomand you find a staff with +1 to nature. That way you will equip on the first weapon slot your main staff with bonus to pet damage and on the second slot +1 to nature. Easy to swap and resummon your pets with the press of a key.

@botebote77 i have that but with storm. Beam should have been a thing from the begining. An alternative to ternion. I love that skill sooo much. Now i am thinking of stealing your combo for an xmax challenge :-?. I think core shuld be enough to keep stuff at bay while i chew them with my staff. As powerful as my prophet is, i don't think it can survive the xmax hordes

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Offline botebote77

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@botebote77 i have that but with storm. Beam should have been a thing from the begining. An alternative to ternion. I love that skill sooo much. Now i am thinking of stealing your combo for an xmax challenge :-?. I think core shuld be enough to keep stuff at bay while i chew them with my staff. As powerful as my prophet is, i don't think it can survive the xmax hordes
thanks you're very welcome but it's not me you're stealing that from. there's been some builds on youtube and icefreeze too has a build like this. i only added tinkerer staff with prometheus + anubis

i added some edits. the cold staff secondary weapon is necessary i feel
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Offline Bughuul

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@botebote77 whoa perma ancestral warriors and phalanx?? I should try it :P lol anyway

Getting bored is enuf reason to abandon a char I believe. Just another example is spear slayer. It was very high DA, high pierce and physical resist, lack of aoe (don't like war wind), kinda immortal, way too muchhh boring meh! Juggernaut and guardian are either, too. DW battlemage was fun tho but I died. I'm just writing it for giving you an idea how fast I get bored, so that's why I try sum unusual chars. So don't make fun of me!! :D Also ino you like some extraordinary builds too so it's sad to see you don't like my style of playing..

I may try that one that you recommended.. seems solid, easy and most important!! simply fun. Casters are always fun to me even if you play with basic attack.

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Offline Bughuul

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Started Guardian.. I think I'll finish game as hardcore untwinked at last, and luving using a heavy damage clubs at least lol I'll search what can I farm

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