Adrenaline skill - question about cooldown (+ false info in conqueror guide)

[lixiss]

yeah, I noticed too that at the end of the video, the skill didn't activate immediately anymore. Very confusing. I tested it myself with Battle Rage and Adrenaline and it always activated again after the same amount of seconds which implied there is indeed a cooldown.

How do you make Adrenaline an active skill? I have no experience with modding and I would really like to see this tested.

NOTICE: If you want just play in game, then just play in it, and don't poison itself with modding. Otherwise you might end what you will be infected with modding, and you will no have time to do normal play anymore... you are warned.

1. You need at least read something about generic modding, about ArtManager... there is exist some tutorails on this forum and on web. Generally it is looks complex at start, but actually much easier than it is described anywhere.
2. You need create new mod with ArtManager
3. Import "records/skills/defensive/adrenaline.dbr" record.
4. Change Class field to "Skill_BuffSelfDuration" (also switch "templateName" to "database\Templates\Skill_BuffSelfDuration.tpl").
4.a. For easy testing there is have sense switch onHitActivationChance to 100.
5. Then build mod and start custom map.

In custom map mod (not bounce mod) new character can use developer console (use "~" (tilde) key) to open it. By command: "game.incrementLevel" you can increment level to get required skills, so you don't need fight with game about game saves.

PS: Also note, when skill activated, animation may appear with some delay... for me it is about for 1-2 seconds for first time, then usually faster, but it anyway depends to animation itself. So when you test - there is better to look on character's health regen and don't take on-screen FX into account at all.

[hansuswurstus]

yeah, I noticed too that at the end of the video, the skill didn't activate immediately anymore. Very confusing. I tested it myself with Battle Rage and Adrenaline and it always activated again after the same amount of seconds which implied there is indeed a cooldown.

How do you make Adrenaline an active skill? I have no experience with modding and I would really like to see this tested.

NOTICE: If you want just play in game, then just play in it, and don't poison itself with modding. Otherwise you might end what you will be infected with modding, and you will no have time to do normal play anymore... you are warned.

1. You need at least read something about generic modding, about ArtManager... there is exist some tutorails on this forum and on web. Generally it is looks complex at start, but actually much easier than it is described anywhere.
2. You need create new mod with ArtManager
3. Import "records/skills/defensive/adrenaline.dbr" record.
4. Change Class field to "Skill_BuffSelfDuration" (also switch "templateName" to "database\Templates\Skill_BuffSelfDuration.tpl").
4.a. For easy testing there is have sense switch onHitActivationChance to 100.
5. Then build mod and start custom map.

In custom map mod (not bounce mod) new character can use developer console (use "~" (tilde) key) to open it. By command: "game.incrementLevel" you can increment level to get required skills, so you don't need fight with game about game saves.

PS: Also note, when skill activated, animation may appear with some delay... for me it is about for 1-2 seconds for first time, then usually faster, but it anyway depends to animation itself. So when you test - there is better to look on character's health regen and don't take on-screen FX into account at all.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I will just live with it for now though because this is not worth all the work. If you find out more about this some day please tell me though. For now, I will just try finishing legendary difficulty lol

Btw I just watched icefreezes video again and the fact that Adrenaline doesn't proc in the end until 6 seconds cooldown is over actually shows there must be something with his equipment that causes the quick procs at the beginning of the video (just like you said).

[botebote77]

Btw I just watched icefreezes video again and the fact that Adrenaline doesn't proc in the end until 6 seconds cooldown is over actually shows there must be something with his equipment...

actually, it doesn't.. it just meant it didn't proc that time.. adrenaline only has 5%chance to proc

btw I'm not siding with anyone because i myself don't know the answer to your question

[botebote77]

actually, spending more time thinking about it, about items being the culprit, it's veeeerrrryyy unlikely. here's the thing: the video shows adrenaline with 6secs recharge. that means the character have 80% recharge already. I'm not aware of any items that have %chance of flat recharge. I've seen items with %chance of %recharge but it would be useless here because
1) 80% CDR already
2) %CDR is capped at 80% so it can never be zero

so the only items i could think of capable of doing that would be items with chance to cast refresh. there's only 2 items i could think of capable of doing that:
1) falcon cape
2) ren leis pride

ren leis pride iirc is not chance to proc. iirc you cast it. but I'm not 100% sure anymore
falcon cape is chance to proc refresh but only at low health. watching the video, there's still over 50% health when adrenaline procced

the only other possibility would be if the character cast refresh but watching the video, refresh never showed any cooldown so refresh was never cast

[lixiss]

Then there is kind of bug in engine and reduction cap under some conditions magically is not get applied, because in all other cases 6 seconds for adrenaline cooldown always applied. There is need save file, knowing game version to attempt even reproduce this. Otherwise this doesn't have sense: cooldown for this skill always start after active skill's phase get finished. Anyone can take few levels and check it with chronometer.

[hansuswurstus]

Thank you botebote77 and lixiss. I think what lixiss said must be true. icefreeze explained in his video that he has indeed 80% CDR build. I also think it might be some bug because when you get attacked by like 25 enemies (like in the video), Adrenaline should proc constantly and the probability for no proc in 6 seconds is almost zero (if your standpoint is that CD starts right after proc). Not only did Adrenaline only proc once, but it also didn't proc for 6 seconds at the end (which happens to be the cooldown time) so I'm pretty sure the normal behavior for such skills is just like lixiss said (and it also worked exactly like that in my tests).

[botebote77]

having giving more thought about it, there's still one more possible way that might make the items the culprit: if the character is wearing items that have grant skill: adrenaline. the first adrenaline proc is due to skill, then immediately after that, the grant skill from item procced. but i don't know if that's how it works

[hansuswurstus]

having giving more thought about it, there's still one more possible way that might make the items the culprit: if the character is wearing items that have grant skill: adrenaline. the first adrenaline proc is due to skill, then immediately after that, the grant skill from item procced. but i don't know if that's how it works

Right, that could be the case as well. I definitely doubt the version of icefreeze because then, with 20-25 attacks per second like in the video, Adrenaline would proc constantly, not only 2 times in 35 seconds.

[hansuswurstus]

Please have a look at this video:

In the beginning at around 1:44, it takes several seconds to proc again, but at the end, it procs instantly like in the first video. With this new information and equipment etc., does someone have the answer now? Because I am REALLY confused now.

[botebote77]

i hate acting like a judge here, and i won't.... but y'know.. if this is a court case, one side has shown evidence already, the other hasn't...

[hansuswurstus]

i hate acting like a judge here, and i won't.... but y'know.. if this is a court case, one side has shown evidence already, the other hasn't...

Wait, I don't understand. In the latest video, until 17:52, Adrenaline procs EXACTLY like in my tests. It always has a cooldown until it gets activated again. Only from 17:52 until 18:02 it does proc without a cooldown. Am I missing something here?

[lixiss]

having giving more thought about it, there's still one more possible way that might make the items the culprit: if the character is wearing items that have grant skill: adrenaline. the first adrenaline proc is due to skill, then immediately after that, the grant skill from item procced. but i don't know if that's how it works

Good catch, but is not a case... There is good chance what multiple skill instances will activated and effects get overlapped: in this case multiple adrenaline skill icons will appear in effects bar.

Wait, I don't understand. In the latest video, until 17:52, Adrenaline procs EXACTLY like in my tests. It always has a cooldown until it gets activated again. Only from 17:52 until 18:02 it does proc without a cooldown. Am I missing something here?

So about 20 minutes skill cooldown works correctly, and only once it triggered without cooldown? lol. There is good evidence of how it work, and show's what there is some bug or unexplained thing.

I'm only have two theories why it might happens at all:

1. [unlikely] Some calculations eventually get poisoned with "NaN" value, which eventually might be treated as zero. Doesn't like this too much, because... this explain nothing and this can't be tested in sensible way.

2. So my best theory: Probably there is exist small time-frame (for example exactly 1 animation frame) between skill's active phase and skill's cooldown phase when skill might be triggered again without cooldown (e.g. skill already wear-off but still not start cooldown => so it eligible for triggering). In this case, chances to skip cooldown should grow-up with number of enemy hits you receive per second. Relative chances (e.g. "feel") will grow up even more with smaller active-phase and smaller cooldown-time. I probably will try reproduce this later.

[hansuswurstus]

having giving more thought about it, there's still one more possible way that might make the items the culprit: if the character is wearing items that have grant skill: adrenaline. the first adrenaline proc is due to skill, then immediately after that, the grant skill from item procced. but i don't know if that's how it works

Good catch, but is not a case... There is good chance what multiple skill instances will activated and effects get overlapped: in this case multiple adrenaline skill icons will appear in effects bar.

Wait, I don't understand. In the latest video, until 17:52, Adrenaline procs EXACTLY like in my tests. It always has a cooldown until it gets activated again. Only from 17:52 until 18:02 it does proc without a cooldown. Am I missing something here?

So about 20 minutes skill cooldown works correctly, and only once it triggered without cooldown? lol. There is good evidence of how it work, and show's what there is some bug or unexplained thing.

I'm only have two theories why it might happens at all:

1. [unlikely] Some calculations eventually get poisoned with "NaN" value, which eventually might be treated as zero. Doesn't like this too much, because... this explain nothing and this can't be tested in sensible way.

2. So my best theory: Probably there is exist small time-frame (for example exactly 1 animation frame) between skill's active phase and skill's cooldown phase when skill might be triggered again without cooldown (e.g. skill already wear-off but still not start cooldown => so it eligible for triggering). In this case, chances to skip cooldown should grow-up with number of enemy hits you receive per second. Relative chances (e.g. "feel") will grow up even more with smaller active-phase and smaller cooldown-time. I probably will try reproduce this later.

Thank you for the clear explanation, that makes very much sense and also explains the strange behavior in the video! Let me know in case you tested this some time!

[lixiss]

2. So my best theory: Probably there is exist small time-frame (for example exactly 1 animation frame) between skill's active phase and skill's cooldown phase when skill might be triggered again without cooldown (e.g. skill already wear-off but still not start cooldown => so it eligible for triggering). In this case, chances to skip cooldown should grow-up with number of enemy hits you receive per second. Relative chances (e.g. "feel") will grow up even more with smaller active-phase and smaller cooldown-time. I probably will try reproduce this later.

Thank you for the clear explanation, that makes very much sense and also explains the strange behavior in the video! Let me know in case you tested this some time!

I'm quick test this theory, and generally this looks like this works similarly how i'm describe it, but with small additions:

1. Skill triggered -> Active Phase
2. Active Phase Ends
3. Small window to get skill re-activated from hit. If it re-activated, then new sequence starts from step 1, but current sequence continued (simulatenously).
4. E.g. regardless to outcome of (3) cooldown start anyway. (So in normal case skill is not active and CD started, in other case skill just activated and CD also started).

So, from (3) means what to have "infinite" proc, you need cooldown smaller than skill duration (i'm doesn't test case when CD > skill duration, but i guess, everyone agreed what skills never trigger while on CD - now quickly tested, see note below).

From (4) we have what skill can be chained second time (but not third time) with CD greater than skill duration.

Code: [Select]

--> time axis
-----------[    Active Phase    ]-[*]-[     Cooldown Phase|     ] ------------------------------
----------------------------------[    Active Phase    ]-[|]-[     Cooldown Phase      ] -------
                                                          |
                                                          \-- at this moment skill would not more get triggered (looks like)
                                                              existing cooldown overriden by new cooldown


Chance (3) in my tests definitely better scaled with number of attacks you receive.

I'm spawned about 50 or 60 satyr archers to get feel about 70-90% chance, and skill get starts to chained 2-3-4 times (for test skill with 100% proc, but there is no big matter because you need only 5% chance and 20 attacks in round to get about to 100% proc). However when it was just 10 less monsters - feel was not so good. Probably there is because their attacks more synchronized and naturally spawned mosters may spread hit timing better. Number of archers are very rough... you can count it for self.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Anyway, normally this doesn't happens every time, so there is no big sense to account what skill will up permanently.

[hansuswurstus]

@lixiss Thank you so much for spending the time to test this, I really appreciate it! So this means, that when you play normally, you will probably never get more than 2 consecutive Adrenaline procs, right? And we can assume that this theory also works for all other skills that trigger on hit (or being hit) like Battle Rage, right?