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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: botebote77 on 15 July 2018, 09:51:39

Title: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 15 July 2018, 09:51:39
(This is not a critique or resentment to the game.  Sometimes it’s good to have fun  ::)  )

Aloha!  So let’s talk about items.  I know many items are good, some are so so.  But some are just plain out weird.

(https://i.imgur.com/iEUka0c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lSDS6TW.jpg)
What is up with that reduced int requirement for armors and weapons? Why would you need to reduce int requirement when the item itself requires high int already?  Well i know it has it’s uses but… really? -30% int requirement for a lvl 48 mage item?  The reduced int requirement for weapons is even more weird.  The only int based weapons in this game are staves.  Reduced requirements, especially as high as 30%, is usually sought out so you can keep said stat to as low as minimum.  So basically, if you want to equip a staff, you would want to keep intelligence to as low possible because why would you need int for a staff weilder right?  Eh?  Is that right?  bonkers.

Veterans know that the best use for that is if you want to twink your toon to equip lvl 48 or below staves but with higher int requirement like Caduceus and Eye of Osiris to name a few.  But veterans also know that it’s a poorly thought out design because soon you can equip it anyway without the need for -30% int requirement.  The boots will just outgrow it’s usefulness and it’s a shame because it’s part of a pretty good set.



(https://i.imgur.com/kaXrmfO.jpg)

80% Reduced Defensive Ability.  On a bow.  Really now. Well yeah it’s still useful for a petmaster and for multiplayer.  Ok ranger, because this is one of the best weapons for a ranger right?  Surely a good tactic for a ranger is equipping a bow that reduces defensive ability right?  Forget about your own damage, the important thing is your wolves deal more damage.  And multiplayer because if you want to play an archer on  a multiplayer, surely you would want to be a support.  Right?  Get a grip.


So let’s talk about Ragnarok items..

Devs:  It’s Ragnarok and part of the new content is we will be adding a new type of weapon
Us:  Ok we’ll farm for them
Devs:  Yes.  We’ll make sure you find them.  Lots and lots and lots of them
Us:  This is too much really.  We want to find other items too  :-\
Devs:  You're welcome  >:D


Devs:  You know you should really try a club for a Hunting toon
Us:  Eh? Why would we want a club when a spear or bow is the ideal weapon?
Devs:  Because we’ll make it very good for you
Us:  Ok I’ll use it for my conqueror
Devs:  No please. We’ll even add +2 to Hunting
(https://i.imgur.com/XsRilTk.jpg)
there  ;)


Devs:  We’ve included many new items.  You should try them
Us:  Ok we’ll mix it with some of our items
Devs:  Ah no.  Those vanilla items are outdated now.  You can forget about them.  We’ll prove it to you
(https://i.imgur.com/u0q2esZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a4Nh6L4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lSX7gnd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KVUakJU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A5MI6SY.jpg)
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: WNG on 15 July 2018, 13:41:32
Giant's Tooth.






Enough said.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Hector on 16 July 2018, 22:31:46
Yeah, just found that Head Hunter's Pride and I was like, what the hell??

Regarding the reduced DA on that bow... I have no idea which one is more frustrating and stupid;

This, or the veteran prefix on a bow.. still not fixed, still ignored.. when looking at changelogs on any update, all I see is "fixed the bla bla sound on satyr hero" "fixed the mesh/colour on bla bla armor"..

And comparing those two mage leggings, I guess it simply shows the amount of creativity, or should we say, laziness of these guys.. 
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: sauruz on 17 July 2018, 16:29:16

And comparing those two mage leggings, I guess it simply shows the amount of creativity, or should we say, laziness of these guys..

if im not wrong, archmage set and adept set its from vanilla version, no ?
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Hector on 17 July 2018, 18:48:13
Yes.. and that is the exact evidence of their laziness (Nordic).. they still haven't fixed what the original devs left unfixed.. they already have received the amount of attention they expected (maybe even more) from the gamers around the world, so they don't see a reason to further improve the game.. this is my interpretation on this matter..
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: WNG on 17 July 2018, 18:49:53

And comparing those two mage leggings, I guess it simply shows the amount of creativity, or should we say, laziness of these guys..

if im not wrong, archmage set and adept set its from vanilla version, no ?

Yes, it is. It's the same thing with Warrior's-Conqueror's panoplies.

https://www.tq-db.net/set/warriors-panoply
https://www.tq-db.net/set/conquerors-panoply

https://www.tq-db.net/set/adepts-regalia
https://www.tq-db.net/set/archmages-regalia

The intent was to make Epic-Legendary sets and give it a stronger-weaker version with almost identical bonuses. Kills creativity, IMO.

EDIT: Actually there's many of these... I may have missed some others... if you recall any tell us.

Hunter's-Tracker's
https://www.tq-db.net/set/hunters-armor
https://www.tq-db.net/set/trackers-armor

Rogue's-Assassin's
https://www.tq-db.net/set/rogues-cover
https://www.tq-db.net/set/assassins-cover
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: sauruz on 17 July 2018, 18:51:57
yes i noticed.

giving two sets same bonus its kinda rush-over things, its a bummer
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Hector on 17 July 2018, 19:06:04
Actually, if we're to reconsider this for a second, don't you think it would have been so nice if they made an "imbue" system with the normal sets, so that when we get into later difficulties and wish to keep the same set, we could just pay any enchanter a visit and transform the items of the set into their "epic" and "legendary" versions.. at a serious cost of course... I've always wanted to keep the Theban set for my old conqueror..

Surely, all this would have make sense only if the issue about the similar sets was solved beforehand..   
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Flix on 17 July 2018, 22:30:58
Guys.  The above-mentioned sets are intentional "duplicates".  The higher level versions are meant to serve as replacements for the much lower level versions.

They did a similar thing in Grim Dawn with the "empowered" versions of uniques.  Because many items had great modifiers, the only problem was that they were just too low level after a while.   Same with Adept's vs. Archmage's sets, etc. in Titan Quest.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 17 July 2018, 22:46:27
People here are so negative about developers, is it just bad experience. Sure this team overdid some things, 100% DA on Batrachos is op, but not on +1 all skills -recharge three resist chest https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/corselet-of-freyja The worse side of this is that with bleed and vitality res affected by penalties, such gear is sometimes required if you want your resist to be positive. Not maxed, just above zero.

Perhaps Nordic needs some sort of channel for feedback if they want to keep updating the game.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 17 July 2018, 22:56:33
about adepts and archmages, i only pointed out the reduced int requirement.. is making them almost similar in attributes a bad design? hmmmmmmm don't know.. it's not a big issue for me

People here are so negative about developers,
not me although i started the thread.. i only wanted to inject some humor  :)

edit: some of my characters, i use my secondary slot to equip bleed resist.. the most dangerous i think are the werewolves in Jotunheim.. but even there, like what mammoth_hunter said, i find that low positive is enough
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: WNG on 18 July 2018, 00:30:00
My intent was not to be negative, but to point out few things.

But like mammoth_hunter said, some items are overly strong, and I will always mention the same item : Giant's Tooth. One gigantic strenght boost justifies picking up the item alone, because that is what everyone is going for right? Not only that, but the item fits so many builds and renders many otherwise viable choices completely obsolete, and this kind of design is very stupid, IMO.

I understand that with a new act needs a new level of gear, but they went too far on that one.

I'm focusing a lot on the negative side, but the things I like from Nordic's work greatly outnumbers the things I don't like.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 18 July 2018, 01:02:11
Giant's tooth is indeed OP.. they definitely went too far as is the case on some of the items

about Headhunter's Pride.. i think it fits with either a Slayer or Warden
Slayer: you won't benefit from woodlore but at least weapon training works with clubs
Warden: also no woodlore but at least Defense provides good survivability.. but i can't help but think that a Warden will benefit more from a spear.. so maybe Slayer is a better fit.. the damning thing is the weapon has no pierce, and that's where hunting excels

btw my assassin wields Headhunter's Pride and Key of Elysium.. it's a permanent battle standard + traps build but also melee onslaught

edit: right. Slayer Dual Wield Headhunter's Pride + sword with a good pierce.. it fits eh?
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: sauruz on 18 July 2018, 12:28:51
they nerfed sapros because it was to powerfull , giant tooth replace the main spot.

giving random attributes/bonus for new itens from expac could work, testing crazy combos and skills.

Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 18 July 2018, 12:40:37
testing crazy combos and skills.
i can agree with this.. I've always liked testing crazy combos.. i just hope it's not too OP, like whatever you could ask for from an item, its there.. Headhunter's Pride is fine for me, doesn't look too OP
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Hector on 18 July 2018, 20:41:18
Sorry for hindering the flow of this topic, its obvious most of you don't like getting into negative talks about the game or the devs.. so I'll try to keep the criticisms to a minimum :)

About dual wielding Slayer, is it viable for later difficulties? I always wanted to make one but shield + spear combo didn't appeal to me in this build because of the lack defence mastery and its utilities..   
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 19 July 2018, 10:33:01
Slayer, what kind of slayer? Hunting is a mastery with sizable marksmanship tree and several skills related to pierce, then warfare is similarly sizable onslaught tree and dual wield melee WPS. If you take either of these out you are left with a big pool of unspent points that will have to go to skills like battle rage or ancestral horn for no better alternatives.

I have a dual wielding slayer, but she's dual wielding bone darts, and had no jagged silk at that point. With a spear and shield on weapon swap. Using both marksmanship and onslaught trees. Shield is Zenon's third paradox, sort of a solution to archers, esp undead.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: tholuneve on 19 July 2018, 11:00:54
IMO, items from games of this genre are generally not well thought out. Devs do not design skills and items so that each one of them could fit into a certain playstyle or build. Instead, they just design items randomly and expect players to try out and develop their own build. When players played sufficient hours and created sufficient amount of different builds, devs then balance the stats on items or redesign some of them, or add more items or dlc based on players' feedback and data collected. This could apply to Diablo II and Path of Exile, and I think it also applies to GrimDawn.
However, in this game, the original devs never had a chance to wait that long to make such changes. The current devs...well I'll just skip my comments here.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: sauruz on 19 July 2018, 13:05:19
bit off topic here:

the thing is nordic team are working on alot of games at same time, if we had a perma dev team , most of thing could be different, but anyway they did a great job on this game, aniversary edition, active patchs and current expac, but who knows the future.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: nargil66 on 19 July 2018, 21:21:12
I agree with what sauruz said, the devs did a good job with AE. However, I would also agree that Nordic team can pay more attention to what players have to say. Imo, with more communication and more creative thinking this game can really rise from the shadow of Grim Dawn and stand for its own again. It's an 11 years old game, so what? Who cares about the age of a masterpiece?
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Prosoro on 20 July 2018, 13:25:16

Never seen this 'Giants Tooth' op item but meh I never really go for the most powerful and popular best-in-slot items personally.  For me, sure damage is nice and of course necessary, but I really enjoy finding items that aesthetically are awesome (..which is why you'll never find me using the ugly Folg mace even though everyone raves about them) and also make for weird and interesting play styles.  Added to this is the challenge of making such items work to their full potential combined with my particular builds. 

As for Ragnarok items I'm only playing through it for the 2nd time recently (still in normal) and from what I've found I've been pretty happy with my finds.  Especially liking all the Proc-type skills on many of the blues > something that was distinctly lacking in Titan Quest's items prior to this expansion, we had a few but Nordic have amped this up! If anything, I feel like the MI's are a hit and miss - seems like compared to vanilla TQ MI's they are mostly mediocre.. this is funny though because it's like the flip side here where instead of the MI's being the most sought after items now, at least imo, the unique blues are much better and indeed worthy of that 'epic' status. 

Also, going back to aesthetics imo the item art for the original Titan Quest was next level with just the overall look and detail - I'm talking about both equipped on your character and the bitmap art in your inventory.  Ragnarok item art is not bad.. idk, I like nordic/viking gear but it just looks flat to me.  I know they did improve the art a bit with patches since the initial release but yeah, that's my thoughts on that.

...this game can really rise from the shadow of Grim Dawn and stand for its own again. It's an 11 years old game, so what? Who cares about the age of a masterpiece?


Definitely agree with this.  Grim Dawn is so good, but people love adventuring in lands of historical mythology and finding sweet myth-flavoured items! It's a key part of what makes TQ so awesome and the Nordic team could take the Titan Quest IP further for sure.  Also, I'm still legitimately amazed at the graphics when I load it up, and this game came out in 2006! 





Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Hector on 20 July 2018, 20:21:46
Quote
Slayer, what kind of slayer? Hunting is a mastery with sizable marksmanship tree and several skills related to pierce, then warfare is similarly sizable onslaught tree and dual wield melee WPS. If you take either of these out you are left with a big pool of unspent points that will have to go to skills like battle rage or ancestral horn for no better alternatives.

Totally agreed..

Quote
Never seen this 'Giants Tooth' op item but meh I never really go for the most powerful and popular best-in-slot items personally.  For me, sure damage is nice and of course necessary, but I really enjoy finding items that aesthetically are awesome (..which is why you'll never find me using the ugly Folg mace even though everyone raves about them) and also make for weird and interesting play styles.  Added to this is the challenge of making such items work to their full potential combined with my particular builds. 

Quote
I like nordic/viking gear but it just looks flat to me.

Totally agreed..
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 28 July 2018, 20:35:37
Quote
Slayer, what kind of slayer? Hunting is a mastery with sizable marksmanship tree and several skills related to pierce, then warfare is similarly sizable onslaught tree and dual wield melee WPS. If you take either of these out you are left with a big pool of unspent points that will have to go to skills like battle rage or ancestral horn for no better alternatives.

Totally agreed..

bit of necro.. but sorry i don't understand this.. dual wield does not lock you to non-piercing weapons (axe or club).. a combination of slow but strong club and fast sword is a well known dual weapon combo.. also, a dual wield slayer is a well known melee glass cannon before ragnarok came out.. that said, i don't think it's the ideal build for a slayer.. i think it's still spear + shield.. that or dual throwing (for ragnarok)

edit: i mean there are many skills to spend points on: onslaught tree, art of the hunt and the dodge projectile skill, call of the hunt tree, dual wield tree, battle standard tree, ancestral warriors, war horn, etc. i mean you can get dual wield + the piercing skills, you don't have to take 1 out

ps: what is WPS? ???
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 28 July 2018, 21:31:42
Quote
what is WPS? ???
It stands for weapon pool skills. Volley and dual wield passives are WPS. Lets compare abbreviations then? link (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32904)

bit of necro.. but sorry i don't understand this..
A single sword is not much piercing to bother. What it means is that as a slayer, you will likely end up using both ranged and melee weapons. Piercing ranged and melee either also piercing or pure physical, however you like. And swap weapons. If you take either of them out it is a big portion of the skill tree, and there are not many other skills in two masteriers worth spending points to warrant this. With both marksmanship and onslaught you will also still have battle standard, war horn, call of the hunt etc all necessary support maxed anyway. For taking DW WPS too it might be necessary to get rid of ensnare, points in marksmanship main and maybe few in war horn. But still pretty much enough for everything when around level 75
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 28 July 2018, 22:20:11
Quote
what is WPS? ???
It stands for weapon pool skills. Volley and dual wield passives are WPS.
ah got it so basically procs for LMB skills, right?

Quote
A single sword is not much piercing to bother.
it's still better than battle rage.. but i get what you mean and i agree.. i think the reason why some people choose club + sword is because with 2 swords, it's easy to get way over 200% attack speed.. it happened to me before too with another character.. but instead of replacing 1 sword with a club, i replaced my amulet instead with resist attributes.. i think i still had it over 200% when onslaught activates, but i still think it's better than club + sword

edit: checked tq-db, it was pendant of immortal rage.. i replaced it with...  something with resists.. so in short i sacrificed DPS in favor of resists because with 2 swords, my attack speed was way over 200% even without onslaught

hmm maybe i made the wrong decision maybe sword + club was better heh  ;D like folg maybe

edit 2: it's an assassin iirc.. I've had 3 different assassins since TQIT
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 17 August 2018, 23:19:08
i don't think this is poorly thought out.. but it's too weird

(https://titanquestfans.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbPW9BZd.jpg&hash=1eb21014ef770cc11d90dad1e690e1ba5017ed92)

looks good for a mage.. until you see the requirements
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: soa on 26 August 2018, 09:34:17
https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/huntsmans-barb
That one is a spear with increase in projectile speed... Maybe it works with spells ?
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: WNG on 26 August 2018, 11:01:24
https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/huntsmans-barb
That one is a spear with increase in projectile speed... Maybe it works with spells ?

Yes. Stuff like Ice shards and Ensnare will fly faster.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: tholuneve on 27 August 2018, 03:59:37
i don't think this is poorly thought out.. but it's too weird

(https://titanquestfans.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbPW9BZd.jpg&hash=1eb21014ef770cc11d90dad1e690e1ba5017ed92)

looks good for a mage.. until you see the requirements

Now probably suitable for Runesmith.
Runesmith has high int but zero ele%, has req reduction for str armor, already have a lot of resistances from both masteries.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Medea Fleecestealer on 27 August 2018, 06:59:37
Runemaster zero %elemental?  You're kidding, right? 
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: tholuneve on 27 August 2018, 09:28:04
Runemaster zero %elemental?  You're kidding, right?
You are right, I forget the effect of rune weapon itself. I had always remembered it adds huge amount of int.
But that's still not a notable number compared with Earth or Storm. So the effect of this chest armor would still be huge.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: Medea Fleecestealer on 27 August 2018, 11:47:00
Guess it depends on how you class elemental.  Thunderstrike does lightning damage/electrical burn, Runeword: Explode is fire/burn, Menhir's Wall has elemental lightning and elemental damage, Seal of Fate has elemental damage and Runic Mines has elemental and frostburn.  So a lot of the skills have some sort of elemental damage.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 27 August 2018, 23:00:04
i don't think this is poorly thought out.. but it's too weird

(https://titanquestfans.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbPW9BZd.jpg&hash=1eb21014ef770cc11d90dad1e690e1ba5017ed92)

looks good for a mage.. until you see the requirements
Anyone investing in elemental damage would try to keep str to a minimum, 560 is exorbital

Unless you have a way to reduce these requirements to nothing. I can imagine melee elemental runesmith would actually become playable with this, and maybe one more item to scale int or %elemental, like Polydegmon or Shavo's relic. And a single Timaios or common item with "weightless" prefix like a shield.

Does this even drop in game though? I have never seen it.
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 28 August 2018, 00:11:28
Does this even drop in game though? I have never seen it.
yes it does.. i have at least 2 of these.. i can imagine this can be a good option for a pure elemental runesmith.. maybe for str + int casters also.. the thing is, if I'm not mistaken, this item was around even before AE.. so str doesn't affect spells yet and there was no runesmith yet.. I'm not sure anymore but maybe someone can confirm
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: mammoth_hunter on 28 August 2018, 00:48:14
tq-db.net itself shows ragnarok expansion items as such and this one is not one of them. It has a notable loot table too, exclusive to act II https://www.tq-db.net/equipment/horus-refuge
Title: Re: Poorly Thought Out Items
Post by: botebote77 on 28 August 2018, 01:33:15
just saw this on the AE changelog:

- Horus' Refuge: Doubled Elemental Damage bonus

so it was around before AE but with 40% elem damage.. lol still weird
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