Author Topic: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge  (Read 262916 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline gasconron

  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: ph
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #165 on: 20 March 2018, 19:20:01 »
Progress:
Yunah (Thane) 53 - Helos
Natashya (B. Mage) 20 - Parnasus Hinterlands

Finally, Thane at Epic. Time to switch to Battlemage.
xmax hardcore is the only way to play this game.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Medea Fleecestealer

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 2310
  • Country: ch
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +1
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #166 on: 20 March 2018, 19:26:30 »
Well done gasconron.  ;D  And very appropriate that on the day TQAE is released on console platforms we get our first epic toon in the challenge here on the new forum.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Tauceti

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 387
  • Country: fr
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone:  0
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #167 on: 21 March 2018, 12:49:46 »
Nice entrance into Epic Gasconrun  ;)

In legendary the first form of Loki is hitting very hard, and therefore Loki, imo, is a threat more than Surtr. I didn't try Loki with Xmax yet. Somehow Loki should be manageable in normal and epic but in legendary Loki may be devastating.  How did you manage 3x Loki in normal ?

Not Yet Rated!

Offline gasconron

  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: ph
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #168 on: 21 March 2018, 15:56:14 »
@Tauceti im twinked to the teeth for my Thane, so he went down fast. I'm technically on end-game gear so it's nothing surprising.

Regarding Loki, i've dealt with him with a squishy toon like Diviner, Avenger and Elementalist on Legendary xMax Hardcore. In my experience, 1st form was way more dangerous than the 2nd form due to the stun lock potential.

His 2nd form's AoE red mist spells are easy to avoid, only thing you have to watch out is his multi shot attack, shit hurts and it seems to have DoT on it as well. For Storm toon's Spellbreaker will render him harmless, as long as you keep his mana drained. The arena is pretty big so lot's of kiting potential, use it to your advantage to deal with 1-2 at a time instead of 3.
xmax hardcore is the only way to play this game.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline botebote77

  • mage boy
  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1612
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +14/-2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #169 on: 21 March 2018, 19:43:23 »
i play primarily xmax x3 so it's just the same with bosses

might i also add.. it's easier if you get each loki to his 2nd form.. instead of killing each one quickly.. i treat Hades the same
i are TQ titans
i are many people

Not Yet Rated!

Offline gasconron

  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: ph
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #170 on: 21 March 2018, 20:07:04 »
Loki, I don't see why not... but Hades, I wouldn't even dare.
3 3rd form Hades is frustrating as f#$%. Even with capped stun resist, the chain stun is real. Lost 2 toons in Legendaries and more in Normal when doing it without twinked gear that way.
xmax hardcore is the only way to play this game.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Tauceti

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 387
  • Country: fr
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone:  0
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #171 on: 21 March 2018, 21:05:05 »
I will keep in mind to handle the 3 1st form of Loki at once. It's true that the 2nd form isn't dangerous provided that you have the good resistances. But I imagine that you can't pull the 1st form of Loki from afar since he spawns when you approach the chest. Surtr in comparison should be easier since it is possible to pull his 1st form outside the gate. Concerning Hades, funny you said that Gasconron, my sedr worker experienced exactly the same: He died a 2nd time because stun locked by the 3 Hades (whereas the 3 1st form of Hades were downed quickly)

Progress from Saiga: she took the same auramancer route like Gustav, so that Act 2 was a breeze. Only a few ternion shots for heroes and boss monsters. She is now lvl 36 in Babylon gardens.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline botebote77

  • mage boy
  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1612
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +14/-2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #172 on: 21 March 2018, 22:13:58 »
really? i always fight Hades that way.. i guess it depends on the playstyle.. I'm used to kiting

loki though i still have troubles with him.. or her.. he's like orochimaru
i are TQ titans
i are many people

Not Yet Rated!

Offline gasconron

  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: ph
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #173 on: 22 March 2018, 06:49:59 »
@MedeaFleecestealer  Will you allow Blacksmith Exploit Twinking in this challenge?
https://titanquestfans.net/index.php?topic=175.0

If so, you can set the limitations for it as you wish. Better than nothing.
 >:D >:D >:D
« Last Edit: 22 March 2018, 06:58:49 by gasconron »
xmax hardcore is the only way to play this game.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Medea Fleecestealer

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 2310
  • Country: ch
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +1
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #174 on: 22 March 2018, 07:42:19 »
Well done Tauceti. That sends you nicely up the leaderboard.  :)

gasconron, good question.  I've not accessed this since I've no toon in Legendary in the game at present.  Looking at your link and given the fact it is a late game thing I'm inclined to say yes.  Of course people who play a lot may build up some overpowered items in their collection, but as you said it doesn't always provide a useful bonus.  Still, as per the old thread on TQ.net, looking for concensus from those participating in the challenge - what do you folks think?  Allowed or not?

Not Yet Rated!

Offline gasconron

  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: ph
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #175 on: 22 March 2018, 08:04:20 »
I have a lot of toons, especially the OP ones that haven't used their Quest rewards simply because they don't need the powerspike.
But if I'm going to build something retarded like a Shield Charge, Takedown Spammer Warden, I'm guessing it needs all the help it can get.
Or maybe when using lower tiered classes like: Illusionist, Magician or Sorcerer.
xmax hardcore is the only way to play this game.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline botebote77

  • mage boy
  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1612
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +14/-2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #176 on: 22 March 2018, 10:07:53 »
may i share my opinion on this even though i have no toon entered in the challenge?

this actually is one of my worries that the game is starting to resemble what happened to diablo 2.. but i also understand people who want to cheat will cheat anyway.. it's one of the reasons why i don't play multiplayer anymore.. now I'm not saying abusing the legendary craftsmanship is cheating.. here are my thoughts:

the legendary craftsmanship, i can see 2 ways of abusing it:

1) backing up your saved files just before you  complete the legendary craftsmanship quest.. if you don't like the reward, just do it over and over again until you get what you want.. this one is outright cheating for me because if you start messing with your character through manipulating game files that is cheating for me.. that is not something that is allowed through regular gaming and I'm sure the devs don't like that

2) making several accomplished hero characters doing speed runs until the legendary craftsmanship quest (you can do it in normal).. then giving it to your HC character.. that way you can twink your character making all his/her items upgraded.. now i can't say this one is cheating because this is something allowed through regular gaming.. but this one i call cheesing.. for those who don't know, cheesing in gaming, in its simplest form means making your character overpowered so you won't have much difficulty.. ok so it's not really overpowered because it's xmax.. well, that what challenges are for.. you do what is difficult that it's not easily done by other players.. that's what makes it satisfying and what puts your character above the rest.. but if you do it not within the regular context of the game, what sets your character apart from the rest?
this for me is getting the quest reward before you even complete the quest.

ok what does this have to do with diablo 2? ahh this is just me telling my story.. how i loved the game at first and how it got ruined in my opinion.. it was really a fun game for us.. we always played multiplayer me and my friends.. soon we found other gamers and it wasn't long before we would fill a party with 8 players, playing both PvMs and PvPs.. but it also wasn't long before we started exploiting every possible way just to make our characters stronger.. all our characters were abusing the imbue item reward from charsi.. it wasn't meant to be that way because it was supposed to be one imbue item per character only .. but whatever we still did it.. but one thing led to another and we also abused that socket reward from act 5.. so end-all, all our items were socketed through that act 5 reward.. again it wasn't supposed to be like that because it was meant to be one quest reward per character only.. and then all hell broke loose.. our other friends started creating their own items.. yeah just crafting their own items giving whatever attribute they want.. literally making their characters immortals.. well, after that, what else is there to play?

now I'm not saying you'll do this cheating also.. but I'm worried that if you start this cheesing thing, other people will follow and one thing will lead to another.. and yes people who want to cheat will cheat.. but i say leave it to casual gamers who can't do it the normal way.. you guys are better than that :)
« Last Edit: 22 March 2018, 22:55:30 by botebote77 »
i are TQ titans
i are many people

Not Yet Rated!

Offline gasconron

  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: ph
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #177 on: 22 March 2018, 15:31:16 »
@botebote77 I'll respect your perspective, since people view things differently, but it's a very purist view. Some players, like the D2 players you mentioned, prioritize optimization (I'd probably fall under this). This Unique Craft system, is basically an optimization tool; a flawed one, but is nonetheless. And min-max players like these will abuse/cheese everything to their advantage to be able to do things you can't usually do under normal conditions.

Taking D2 as an example, this was exactly why build guides could micro their attributes to the exact number, because they already have the gear in place to make their advancement possible, which they couldn't have gotten on their own and their concept would have failed entirely without it. It's not really something that should be looked down on.

As to the actual Unique Crafting System:
backing up your saved files just before you  complete the legendary craftsmanship quest.. if you don't like the reward, just do it over and over again until you get what you want.. this one is outright cheating for me because if you start messing with your character through manipulating game files that is cheating for me.. that is not something that is allowed through regular gaming and I'm sure the devs don't like that


I'll give you this one. It's inherently not an in-game feature therefore it is cheating.

However, given the history of this challenge and its past iterations, moderators of the challenge, have given leniencies to participants in order to make this challenge accessible to the majority:
- Twinking was allowed
- Specific mods (freeze time, stacking pots, tweaked drop rates) were allowed to make it more convenient
- TQVault use is allowed; it came with it's ability to change the bonuses on Relics and Artifacts to cut down the meaningless farm time needed to get the specific one you needed was allowed

These things were not part of regular gameplay but was allowed, because ultimately the challenge was all about clearing xMax with no deaths.
Now, purists will say: "then you could just install Itemus and MI Shop, and you could have achieved the same result". While that's true, that is why it was up to the moderator to define exactly what the limitations were; in other words, how far min-max players like me, can push these boundaries. Like I said in my rant in the thread I posted, this feature is essentially a "gamble system" like D2's Horadric Cube. Gamble systems are usually repeatable because it gives the player a chance to get something good at a cost. In TQ, however, they didn't have a stand alone system to do this and probably had no choice but to tie it in as a quest reward making it a one-time only thing. This is why I say the whole system is flawed... at the very least that's my argument for it  >:D

In Pre-AE, there were already players in multiplayer that were able to hack uniques with editors to give it Affixes. It would have been easier to do that, but that would be real cheating. While #1 isn't exactly a clean method it still uses the system that is within the game to provide result; just that you are optimizing the result.

making several accomplished hero characters doing speed runs until the legendary craftsmanship quest (you can do it in normal).. then giving it to your HC character.. that way you can twink your character making all his/her items upgraded.. now i can't say this one is cheating because this is something allowed through regular gaming.. but this one i call cheesing.. for those who don't know, cheesing in gaming, in its simplest form means making your character overpowered so you won't have much difficulty.. ok so it's not really overpowered because it's xmax.. well, that what challenges are for.. you do what is difficult that it's not easily done by other players.. that's what makes it satisfying and what puts your character above the rest.. but if you do it not within the regular context of the game, what sets your character apart from the rest?


This is once again up to the moderator. I am also not in favor on an challenge entry with a 7-legendary quest crafted items equipped, but it is up to the moderator to define the limitations and restrictions of this system. Equipping 3 items with "vet of the glade" and 2 items with "Hale of the Mammoth" would guarantee any class with even the most retarded build a challenge completion.

Hand-me downs, however in my opinion, should be allowed (it is a form of twinking, which is already allowed).
« Last Edit: 22 March 2018, 15:47:10 by gasconron »
xmax hardcore is the only way to play this game.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline Medea Fleecestealer

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 2310
  • Country: ch
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: +1
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #178 on: 22 March 2018, 16:27:18 »
botebote77, I see your point.  But the challenge does, and always has, allowed for twinking - which many people will label as cheating or cheesing.  The question is where do you draw the line?  Is it okay to use stuff from your Vault collection?  If yes, and you've put a modded item in it, is it then okay to use that item or not?  Do you restrict it to self-found toons only - which may well put the more casual players off trying the challenge and more experienced as well because of all the possible farming needed to get their "ideal" build gear? 

For me, while I like the leaderboard and seeing people progress up it, the main challenge is me against the Xmax mod - not against other players.  People who do complete this challenge untwinked have my admiration because I know I couldn't do what they did.  I'm not that good a player and couldn't stand to do the necessary farming for gear to try.  Stormyboy completed the challenge with an untwinked Haruspex and using no potions whatsoever.  gasconron has completed it so many times with so many different builds, but they are twinked.  I admire both of them for their achievements.  Heck, I admire anyone who manages to do this challenge because they deserve it.  They set their personal limits on how they play within the challenge's rules. 

Finally, people who want to cheat/cheese will do so.  We can't affect what they do in their normal game and frankly it's not up to us to judge them anyway.  It's a single player game and what they do doesn't affect anyone else.  The challenge rules are clearly laid out, if they want to take part and will abide by those rules, fine.  If not, then this challenge isn't for them.

Not Yet Rated!

Offline gasconron

  • TQ Titans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: ph
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Time Zone: ?
Re: The Xmax Hardcore Challenge
« Reply #179 on: 22 March 2018, 19:29:50 »
Well, while waiting for a consensus, will be entering two more entries:

Sivon (Champion) 9 - Sparta
Inspired by this video:
.
I will be trying out my 7-Nation Army Build; a low cooldown dual-wield Key of Elysium build, using Tracker's Hood and Talisman of the Jade Emperor in tandem with Refresh. My test runs produced results that exceeded my expectation, wiping the floor with xMax: Typhon, Hades, Fafnir, Sutyr & Hydra w/o breaking a sweat.  I haven't tested area clear potential, but the boss killing capacity was so good it got me excited to run this petmancer hybrid.

Co'Vang (Warden) 10 - Sparta;
This is my 3rd try in following this concept (Shield Charge, Take Down Spam) in AE/AE:R. Hopefully this time, I actually make it far in building the toon to be able to actually execute the concept properly. It actually works on a test toon in Legendary, my problem is getting it to that actual state.
xmax hardcore is the only way to play this game.

Tags:
 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal